A quandary . . .

[Kuncicky]

Not really a discussion item, I suppose. But an interesting quandary.


My brother-in-law has had his Mainship up for sale for a while, and finally has a potential buyer. The potential buyer is inexperienced and eager to get into boating. All of the steps so far have been satisfactory, and the only thing left is the sea trial.


It was scheduled some time ago, and the buyer had to travel a good distance to get to where the marina is. He stayed overnight, and the sea trial is to occur today.


However, the wind is howling, the air temperature is 29°, and ordinarily my brother-in-law would not take the boat out of the slip. It has a lot of windage, and the marina is tight quarters. He does have thrusters, but he says it really is not a good day to take it out.


But the buyer insists upon the sea trial. A quandary indeed. I am keeping my fingers crossed.


Bill

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

Your call, but site safety reasons first to reschedule. This could be the first valuable lesson for the new boater.

 

[Kuncicky]

Your call, but site safety reasons first to reschedule. This could be the first valuable lesson for the new boater.

Not my call, but I agree with you.


Bill

 

[CharlieO.]

Don't ever give in to pressure to leave the dock if the captain is not comfortable for any reason.

 

[psneeld]

The big question is CAN the captain do it versus wouldn't ordinarily do it?

Howling wind refers to the person using it as a descriptor versus an actual speed.

Many buyers WOULD love to see their potential boat in bad conditions.... but of course they won't be the ones covering any damage either.

Tough call....

 

[FWT]

Spend the day training the buyer on the systems?

 

[Shrew]

The buyer should have a surveyor. That is the buyers 'agent' for all intents and purpose and he should be able to trust him to carry out the sea trial and provide a detailed written survey to make an educated financial decision.

OR, the buyer can wait. I've waited weeks to get a boat launched to perform a sea trial. It's not the buyer's boat yet. Who covers any damage as a result of close quarter maneuvering in adverse weather?

 

[Kuncicky]

The big question is CAN the captain do it versus wouldn't ordinarily do it?

Howling wind refers to the person using it as a descriptor versus an actual speed.

Many buyers WOULD love to see their potential boat in bad conditions.... but of course they won't be the ones covering any damage either.

Tough call....

I would say the captain can do it, but with the distinct possibility of a problem. Wind now is 12 knots with frequent gusts to 18 knots.


Bill

 

[mike66]

I would never take boat out in 29 degree temperatures.

 

[jleonard]

I would say the captain can do it, but with the distinct possibility of a problem. Wind now is 12 knots with frequent gusts to 18 knots.


Bill

That wind is nothing. That should not stop a sea trial.
Sorry but that’s my opinion.
I postponed the trial for the sale of mine but it was 35 knot winds with gusts and rain. We spent several hours going over the systems and did the trial the next day. Was no problem for either of us.

 

[rslifkin]

I agree, 12G18 isn't a concerning amount of wind in most cases. Depending on the exact situation, that wind from just the wrong direction could be a problem. But in the majority of situations, I would consider postponing in that wind to indicate that someone is lacking in boat handling skills and is a bit scared of the boat.

 

[Kuncicky]

Ok Ok Ok -- I can take a little ribbing, guys. And of course the 29° has no bearing on the situation, even though I did say it. It is only the wind gusts which are of any concern. I probably should add that it is not my brother-in-law (the captain) who seems worried. It is my sister, who always sees problems where there are none. So I will pass on the aggregate wisdom to her and tell her to quit worrying.


Bill

 

[Comodave]

I don’t see a problem with that amount of wind. Make sure everyone has on a PFD all the time due to water temps and the “gasp” reflex.

 

[AquaDestiny]

Is it a possibility to return to port in a slip or face dock that might be more favorable for docking till better conditions prevail? Just speaking for myself, the boat can usually handle much more than my docking stills can.

 

[sjisailor]

If the skipper is undecided then that defaults to "no go" in my book. Agreed it is a good boating lesson!

In most circumstances 12G18 is not too bad, yet I'd defer to the skipper's knowledge of local conditions, how tight the quarters are, currents they expect to fight, availability of backup slips if the conditions worsen, etc.

 

[BruceK]

Many years ago, a first time boat buyer, I sea trialled on Sydney Harbour, a 22ft Santana sailboat. The conditions were atrocious, there was an east coast low prevailing, a gale really. I should have postponed, the broker should have postponed, but we didn`t. Nothing broke, though the broker was worried about the mast, we were spilling wind out of the sails constantly to keep the boat on its feet. There was a serious problem, someone had tied the tiller so the rudder was pointing fwd instead of aft, a steering drama, ie none, until I(not the broker),being familiar with the Santana 22,realized what was wrong.

The boat was well tested, as were we. You can see it is a day from many years back, burned into memory. Years later we got into trouble during a strong 40 knot southerly change while offshore, again the boat held up well, green water flowing either side of the leeward sheet winch.
We were lucky, if you are not confident with the conditions, postpone.

 

[Benthic2]

Would it make a difference if you talked to the dockmaster got permission to return to a wide open side tie slip until the wind abates ?

 

[SoWhat]

12 gusting to 18 should be OK esp. if it's blowing you against the dock. My limit is 20 gust to 25. Still doable but nerve wracking. Just have to watch the water and go for it between gusts. (Twins, no thruster) It's easy getting out. Getting back in can be a challenge.

 

[Pete Meisinger]

I would say that going out in that temp with that wind would be enough to sour the new boater on boating for life.

pete

 

[Benthic2]

Update ?

 

[mvweebles]

Purpose of a sea trial is to demonstrate the systems. There will be hatches open and a fair amount of crawling around so there are some safety considerations beyond general comfort. To some extent, goal is to see what the limits of the boat are or how it performs near it's limits. For purposes of weather, run-up to WOT for 5+ minutes and hard turns might be compromised.

And then there's always the matter of a buyer/spouse becoming seasick - could be a buzz-kill for the sale.

Peter

 

[backinblue]

I was about to say the same as Peter. Forget for a moment whether the capt and boat can handle the conditions. A bigger concern for me would be how the conditions affect the quality of the trial. If everyone is holding on and bracing themselves, how could the boat truly be fully excercised and inspected underway?

 

[Hippocampus]

Old saying is “schedules kill”. Look at this as just a variation on that saying. Haven’t heard enough about the weather. How long has it been blowing dogs off their chains? What’s the sea state? Any current in marina. Personally don’t think that’s much wind once you’re underway but depending upon the dockage setup up maybe unsafe getting off and would also be concerned if it builds before you need to get in. Also what’s the predicted conditions for the next day?
Another days wait means another day of housing fees. If the next day will be better would just put it off. Maybe offer to split the hotel bill or even eat it. I’ve been waiting 4 days to leave where I am now. I’ve waited over a week for a weather window at times. I’ve cancelled trips. I’m sure the folks here have had similar or worse. Agree with above posts it’s part of boating . The seller makes the call. If he’s nervous it’s a no go.
In retrospect think the basic screw up was to not discuss weather with the buyer before he left. Seller likely knew about the issue days in advance. Buyer could have had time to reschedule. Maybe there’s still time to reschedule. If so that’s the answer imho.

 

[kthoennes]

I am no highly skilled boat master, but even for an amateur like me, we have a 20-knot rule - over 20 knots of wind, we don't go out. As for the temp -- well, it's South Dakota, so unless I need an ice-breaking bow, temperature makes no difference. Those 454's under the floor warm up the cabin nicely on below freezing days. But even with all that, when it comes to a sea trial on somebody else's boat -- owner/captain's call. The buyer can get mad and walk away and curse you on the way home, or wait until later in the day to see if conditions change, or be patient, up to him. But if the captain/operator doesn't feel safe, you don't go. We did our sea trial on a cold October day in Newport, but we scheduled all weekend just in case, and casting off was ultimately up to the owner/seller.

 

[SteveK]

Update ?

I expect that the admiral vetoed (post 12) the sea trial under those harsh conditions.

 

[backinblue]

In the scheme of things, an extra hotel night and a couple meals shouldn't be that big a concern. If that's going to break the deal, then there will be other reasons. Eveyone sems focused on docking, but I'd be more interested in the sea state and trying to conduct a legitimate sea trial. As Hipp pointed out, wind speed by iteself is only part of the picture.

 

[Pdxstriper]

I would look the buyer (or the buyers agent) straight in the eye and say "It's not safe to go out in these conditions".

 

[slowgoesit]

Peter has the answer. Especially if the perspective buyer is new to boating, taking him out in lousy conditions is liable to turn him off, not only to that boat, but if he gets sick, or feels really uncomfortable, possibly to boating in general! If it were me, I'd consider telling the perspective buyer:

"Safe boating is a lot about knowing when not to leave the dock, and today's one of those days. Tell you what, if you end up buying the boat, I'll cover the cost of your meals, and an extra day in a hotel, and we can see about going out tomorrow!"

That might work, assuming the buyer has the time, and the Wx i expected to improve the next day . . .

 

[Finnegus]

I have cancled trips because of the risk of docking in high wind. If the Mainship is single screw, no thrusters sometimes the wise thing is to pass. I moor on an inside slip that is sideways to the current on the river. During the spring the river runs at 3 knots and my boat has twins but a very deep forefoot with flat stern section so it wants to turn down river bad! I can get in by holding sideways to the current and dashing as I go past but I tend to just avoid the times of day when the current is strongest and time trips to high slack when the river current is less. I think the issue is windage on his particular boat and the marina. It is always the Captians call. I have a similar underwater profile and a lot of windage. I got spun backing out of a slip last year on the coast when the wind gusted to 30 plus. In hindisght I should have stayed at the tie. There is no one anwser to this question. It depends on the boat. the tie, and the skill and ability of the Captian to control the boat. If you want to put a newbie off boating just have a charlie foxtrot docking experience.

 

[rgano]

Conditions were fine when I took the buyer of my GB42 out of the boat shed at my per for a sea trial. I took him and his crew to lunch down the bay and let them practice landings at the nearby fuel dock. Back at home the sea breeze had picked up blowing directly across the opening to the shed where I always backed the boat in. Conditions were not overly challenging but for somebody not familiar with the boat AND this mooring, it was well beyond their capacity, and they learned something while I did it. The next morning, they and the boat were gone, headed for a new home - three days for haulout, survey, sea trial, and purchase and two weeks since posting on boattrader.com.

As to this situation, the owner rules, and I will be interested to hear how it all went out....