AC voltage protector help!

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Undersized dock wiring is becoming a bigger problem as many vessels are requiring more high current devices. Boost or buck transformers are both expensive and heavy. This makes them difficult to install on many vessels <40'. I purchased a pair of Charles transformers years ago for my 40 Mainship I ended up selling them because I had no place to install them and I'll add one more comment they were really heavy!
Bill
 
30amp dedicated should be enough I think to run 2 new 16000 AC's. It had been running the 2 older units since the late 70's. Several people at the marina have had pump, fan and compressor failures in the last 2 years since more boats/demand has been made on the electrical system. I have replaced all the wiring on that leg with tinned marine 10 gauge.
 
Buck boost is an option, but since I was going to upgrade my charging system in the next couple of years, I might as well get the victron Quattro now. Or when my bank account recovers!!
 
30amp dedicated should be enough I think to run 2 new 16000 AC's. It had been running the 2 older units since the late 70's. Several people at the marina have had pump, fan and compressor failures in the last 2 years since more boats/demand has been made on the electrical system. I have replaced all the wiring on that leg with tinned marine 10 gauge.

My 30 amp that runs 2, 16000's is enough on the boat but often the corroded or burnt ends of my shore power or the dockside may make drop the voltage a bit...that's why I'm in the process of upgrading to 50A...even if I could live with 2x30 Amp, the much more robust wiring/connectors make a difference.
 
What all are you doing to upgrade to 50amp? My pedestal only has 2 30amp, but I'm always looking to increase the gray mass!
 
well I have access to 50A 125/250 and most of the marinas I stop at to/from Florida.

even if I didn't, I would still upgrade the hardware because the 30 amp cords and receptacles are poorly designed to take much movement/abuse....or overload.

I'm gong full tilt with new distribution panels...but till I'm ready just upgrading everything from dock to main power panel, swapping 30A breakers for 50A. I've contacted the panel manufacturers and the buss bars will handle the load. I'll shoot infrader under hgh loads to make sure they aren't fibbing...even then I'll just add some jumpers to spread the load till I get the new distribution panels.

I figure the whole swap will be about $2000 (my labor) but as a liveaboard, living with less requires too much load shedding.
 
Buck boost is an option, but since I was going to upgrade my charging system in the next couple of years, I might as well get the victron Quattro now. Or when my bank account recovers!!

I'd go (and went) with a USA built and supported Magnum. They have a new series that does this load support function. Great customer service before and after the sale.

MSH-M Series Inverter/Chargers

Victron has begun to get a reputation for spotty support of products out of warranty, and day to day tech support. Good stuff, but why not buy American if you can, and deal with Americans when you have a question.
 
30amp dedicated should be enough I think to run 2 new 16000 AC's. It had been running the 2 older units since the late 70's. Several people at the marina have had pump, fan and compressor failures in the last 2 years since more boats/demand has been made on the electrical system. I have replaced all the wiring on that leg with tinned marine 10 gauge.

If you figure in the surge current on startup and remember that you also have one or two water pumps, I don't think so, especially if they both try to start at the same time.

Remember, the OP has a problem with suspected low voltage and it's best to check all the possibilities before spending big bucks on a "cure" that may not be needed.
 
God Psneeld, I would love to do that, it just seams the boat keeps emptying the bank account before I can replenish it!! Let alone our down island fund.
Magnum had always been my first choice, but I didn't see that they had load shedding capabilities yet. My concern is if someone pulls my plugs the system will try to power everything from my battery bank.
 
I believe master volt was bought by marinco not too long ago. That should improve their distribution.

When I put my system in, I had to design load shedding as my Victron multi did not come with multiple outlets as was clearly advertised. Victron just wanted to argue. Apparently they drop features for the us market, no idea why. In any case, I ultimately got it working on my own dime. Good product, but kind of a shoddy company given this kind of feature is their nitch, then they willy nilly don't deliver what was promised. A phase matching "power assist" inverter is a liability if it does not have automatic load shedding, as you are in danger of suddenly trying to invert power for way too much if you unexpectedly lose your input power. Other inverters without these capabilities don't get wired to benefit the whole ac system, so never get put in a position to need to selectively drop out.

I also added a small 10 amp breaker that I can manually throw that allows me to add the load shed circuits back in while not on shore power in a controlled but limited way. It's small enough that it will pop if more than one load is on the bus. But large enough that I can singly run one heater based circuit at a time. I use it to occasionally heat the water tank, or cook with the electric cooktop. I have found that I can power things at anchor selectively when I still have the amp hours available. I've been surprised that the amp hours to top up the heat in the water heater, or cook a meal is often not so bad. (25 ah to heat water for a shower, 30 to cook a quick breakfast).

I can sometimes get away with not running the Genny in the morning in a quiet anchorage. Pretty versatile.
 
Thanks Ghost, I'm just going to get off my ass and call all three companies and see what is what. Thank you for all the great responses guys! I always come away from this forum better armed for the great battle of living/loving/crying on our old trawler!
 
God Psneeld, I would love to do that, it just seams the boat keeps emptying the bank account before I can replenish it!! Let alone our down island fund.
Magnum had always been my first choice, but I didn't see that they had load shedding capabilities yet. My concern is if someone pulls my plugs the system will try to power everything from my battery bank.

There's another call for you to make. The Magnum people are very helpful.

The inverter doesn't see the individual loads downstream. Any load shedding device would have to be associated with the panel. You can set the low battery cut out on the inverter wherever you like if you are worried about running down your batteries.
 
Thanks George, I am calling Magnum first as I have always been leaning towards them. Haven't heard bad things and made in the USA! Now I need to enroll in EE classes at UNO to see if I can build what Ghost did :D
 
Sorry to be verbose, but the shore power comments make me recall another important idea as all of the electrical works in concert.

In my neck of the woods it's heaters that draw the high loads, not summer ac , but ultimately the same problem. Every year we burn boats down when shore power connections catch fire. This is very common, number one cause. Many more with close calls with melted plugs. I noted long ago when I trade up boat sizes that the 30 amp marinco cords that used to work, suddenly we're problematic. You can run one heater on a 30 amp cord successfully, or even two if they are both intermittently cycling, but once the boat is large enough that two heaters are running at long duty cycles then the shore power connections become problematic. The difficult problem being a majority of 50 foot slips if not brand new have 110/30 power, not 220/50. So you unavoidably have to suck that power through a small straw. Unless those 30 amp connections are perfect,they just don't stand up to anything close to a more continuous 30 amps of delivery without overheating. They just don't.

Many of us went to the smart plugs as they are a much heavier design to try to combat the melting connections. What we found this past winter after a few years of comparing notes among many is that the smart plugs were melting too! The common theme with the smart plugs was it seemed to be with the versions where you put the smart plug on an existing cord. Smart plug beat up a friend a bit more than warranted claiming they were getting installed wrong. Could be, but now that I know empirically that multiple anal retentive types are apparently not able to put these together right, at least one an engineer, another an electrition, maybe it's not possible for the consumer to put these together. Sorry smart plug, I really do love you guys and have stood in your office on multiple occasions as you supported my boat club, but you just walked into this one when you try to blame the consumer. Can't protect you from yourself. You should have investigated who you were talking to before blaming them. In any case, of the pre-molded complete cord and end, we have not seen this problem repeat. So most of us have bought the pre molded cord set now, seems to be working and prices have dropped too.

Sorry, I told you this was going to be verbose.

In summary, when pulling 30 amps more or less continuously on a 30 amp system, even when using upgraded components, it seems we are still on some kind of razors edge. Upgrading the shore power would be the real solution, but that's often not available. Plus, if you cruise north around here, it's not uncommon to run into 20 amp shore power, or a standard household 15 amp which you can't get anywhere close to 15 after the dock dogs pee on them. All of this very common, real life.

So, that's where I got my inspiration that my 48 foot boat somehow needed to be able to get by on much less than 30 amps of power on a typical day. If I can't fix the shore power capacity, and I can't fix the 30 amp connections to be bullet proof, the only thing left is to reduce the load on the cable itself.

That gentleman is why I went with a phase matching inverter. The simple feat is that I can manually select the max current of the shore power inlet. That's a configurable setting. So I set mine on something less than 30 amps, usually 20. In an instant, I never had a shore power connection overheat again. In a raggedy marina with household outlets? I just select 10 amps. I've done it, it works not just in theory, but real life.

The magic why this works is that you only need your shore power to keep up,with your average load, which is much less than your peak loads in most cases. If so, then this system and it is a system, not just one component, it will work wonders. On startup loads, the inverter adds a little more than what you get from the shore power alone. In a while when the peak load drops, the charger goes to work putting back what you just took out. I've arrived at a cold boat and turned on two heaters and the hot water heater at the same time and in 4 hours time the charger had already replaced the enormous load I had taken out when I got there.

The down side? Cost. Batteries. Wiring. These units are not cheap, you need to have a sizable battery bank and often our old wiring finally presents itself as the number one project on the list. All things I would have done eventually anyway, bug they all had to be present together for it to work.

Now that I worry less about my own boat burning down, I just have to worth about all the boats around me.
 
Thanks George, I am calling Magnum first as I have always been leaning towards them. Haven't heard bad things and made in the USA! Now I need to enroll in EE classes at UNO to see if I can build what Ghost did :D

Actually, if you look on line, the RV guys do this with some frequency. Stuff like this:

Magnum Energy MSH3012M Hybrid Inverter - Tech and How-to - RV Magazine

http://www.rvcruzer.com/docs/PCI_Specs.pdf

However, we have strayed from your root problem! And that is the source low voltage issue. This is something youshould consult with Magnum about while you are at it. .
 
Hello all, throwing out this question hoping for some help with this horrible shore power we have here in New Orleans. Just had my air conditioner compressor die from what I think is the voltage fluctuation at my marina.


Oh, great. The ancient Cruise Air split system that i've been patching and limping with has finally died too. Oh well, 30 plus years was a good run. Looks like another purchase is in the works.


Maybe that's a blessing. Remember your first post said a compressor went south from what you thought was voltage fluctuation. Maybe it wasn't that at all.

Anyway, I've read that the new Dometic Vector Turbo (etc., for example) units are much more efficient, presumably not only in output but also in electricity consumption. Two of these on your dedicated 30-amp circuit -- especially with soft start protection -- might well fare better than your older units.

Another thought: Probably you don't have to keep the water pump on the same circuit. If it's on that same 30-amp circuit now, perhaps swapping it to your other 30-amp supply side might be an improvement.

Whether you need boost or not...

-Chris
 
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Well add another score George, I'll be calling Magnum tomorrow when I get home again. I've gotta get some sleep to keep the semi between the ditches tonight! Will let you know what they have to say/offer tomorrow. Looks like they can help kill a couple birds. Now if I can only get my company to transfer me to Florida I'll be in some clearer water and more marina options than New Orleans. At least they transferred me from Chicago, so no more snow :D
Thanks John
 
Damn all you good commenters! I almost got away from this computer. I just ordered 2 16000 webasto and yes the pump is on that 30amp w/AC's. Have a march 1080 gph pump feeding the oldies now, don't know if it'll run 'em with the new length of hose to the v berth where the replacement for the split unit is going. We'll see, maybe 2 inline pumps would do. Ahhh, the money flows threw my fingers so fast.
 
Yes, I started another thread earlier to not muddy up the waters but it didn't help! Sorry this thread has crept alittle but I'm still following along nicely :)
 
As a liveaboard in NJ till December before heading south...I run 3 space heaters at time all on full. 2 on one 30 amp circuit. 2-1500 watt heaters draw about 25 amps if you are getting and maintaining 120 volts to your power cords....so really not an issue if everything is up to standard. They have never been the overload issue like the 2 air conditioners trying to cycle at the same time...they peak over 30 amps...usually not long enough to trip the breakers but the cords run hot.

The other space heater goes on low most of the time because of the water heater and a few other loads. When we have to use electrical appliances in the galley I usually turn that space heater off but the appliances in the galley such as the microwave or toaster oven are adding heat anyway.

My last live board boat was pretty identical to the setup on this one. that's why I'm going 50 amp service because I don't want to pretend I'm camping and usually people would never put up with a 60 amp service to their house...so why would I to my floating house?

The whole way the 50 amp 125/250 plugs secure make me feel much better than the 30 amp with plastic rings that seem to hang by the prongs rather than a more positive connection like the 50.
 
Before you install your new a/cs I would check your power cords for burnt ends and all connection at the panel and units. If you can shorten the length could help with less resestant and cleaner power. Grainger has a a/c Hard start that will help in a low volt or recycling to quick. Two wire hook up to start cap.
 
Since the issue most likely is the power at your marina, you don't have to mount the transformer on your boat, you could mount it on the dock.
 
Since the issue most likely is the power at your marina, you don't have to mount the transformer on your boat, you could mount it on the dock.

I don't think that's been proven by actual testing and I would certainly recommend testing before purchasing an expensive transformer.

But yes, it can be mounted on the dock if one is necessary. It would have to be weatherproof or in a weatherproof enclosure.
 
The whole way the 50 amp 125/250 plugs secure make me feel much better than the 30 amp with plastic rings that seem to hang by the prongs rather than a more positive connection like the 50.

:thumb::thumb::thumb::thumb: That's why we run two and don't worry about a thing. :flowers::)

Note: We have a generator and we're not afraid to use it!:)
 
If burning at the inlet is a worry , simply using the old style 120v 50A inlet on the end of a 30A power hose should do the trick.

Even a 50a 240 plug and socket could be installed on the end of the 30a power hose as its easier to obtain.Only one leg wired.

Remember, the OP has a problem with suspected low voltage and it's best to check all the possibilities before spending big bucks on a "cure" that may not be needed. Then the plug fire would be at the power pole instead of attached to very flamable boat GRP

>Remember, the OP has a problem with suspected low voltage and it's best to check all the possibilities before spending big bucks on a "cure" that may not be needed. <


Many volt meters will record and display the highest or lowest voltage as desired.Fluke for a quality unit.
 
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New air-conditioners may tell if voltage is a problem. They will give a low AC code and go offline if you get units with that feature built in.
 
Obviously, and I gave the OP the benefit of the doubt that it needed to go with out saying, that you don't spent money on anything with out doing some testing first.

But crappy voltage from a marina is fairly common. The easiest way to test it is to go to another marina, plug in and check your voltage.
 
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