Adding a 120v outlet

[South of Heaven]

Guys, I'm thinking of adding an exterior 120v 3 prong outlet to the exterior of my boat to give me more AC wattage inside. Then I could connect an heavy duty extension cord to a shore power outlet adapter and have some more juice inside.

I currently only have 30A of shore power now. I need the extra wattage for the cold months ahead since I'm a fulltime liveaboard now. I don't wanna overload my AC system (even though each AC outlet has a 1500w breaker). All I'm looking for is just to gain a little more wattage. Not a lot!

It seems that adding the 120v outlet would be the simplest fix for my needs. Ideally I would like to have twin 30A shore power cords but that will require a big modification to the wiring, breakers and panel etc.

I also thought of just running an extension cord inside the boat but that's a sloppy way of doing it.

Any ideas? I'm gonna be doing this ASAP......

 

[ranger58sb]

I don't exactly understand how that would make any additional wattage from an extension cord available to various interior appliances.

??

I suspect better to bite the bullet and add another 30-amp inlet now, maybe then tie that specifically to ACs... or at least one AC... Maybe wouldn't have to bother with an interior transfer bar, that way. Just first thoughts...

-Chris

 

[gsholz]

If I understand correctly, you want to add a 120V/15amp inlet to the standard 120V/30amp inlet your boat has. Done right, this would require a breaker within 10 feet of the inlet and a distribution panel. For the same amount of work, you could add another 120V/30amp inlet and get twice the power.

Just running extension cords through a port/door is tempting but risky especially when used for heating (high loads). Boats move, connections corrode, extension cords end up being cascaded, etc. Does not take much to really create a fire hazard.

 

[psneeld]

I think he wants to run another 30A power cord and inlet so he can plug in 2 more space heaters and still have something left for other circuits...like most boats that get used a lot.

Look up Blue Seas or Paneltronics for typical 2x30 inlets and panel setups.

 

[South of Heaven]

Sorry for the confusion! What I wanna do is probably not done very much on boats. Psneeld is catching my drift...sort of.

I essentially just wanna add one exterior 120v plug on the exterior of the boat so that I can then plug in an extra space heater or iron or whatever without disrupting my normal 30A service.

I don't really add another 30A inlet. That seems like way more work than I wanna get into or hire someone to do. Or is it?? How difficult of a job is it to add another? What's involved? Anyone here done it before on a single 30A boat?

 

[tiltrider1]

I understand what he is asking for. By the time we did it safely it would cost almost the same as adding a second 30 amp circuit. I can think of lots of ways to cheat and accomplish what he wants but I feel like I am handing a loaded gun to a child.

If you do what you are hinting you can not let the second feed come in contact with the existing circuits on the boat.

 

[tiltrider1]

https://www.amazon.com/Leviton-5278...907133&sr=8-3&keywords=male+electrical+outlet

This is the style of socket you are looking for. You still need circuit breakers and this is in no way ABYC or UL approved.

 

[wwestman]

Plus where are you going to plug the cord into. Your pedestal is probably limited to 30 amps anyway unless the marina has upgraded the wiring. It would be safer and easier to upgrade everything; boat, pedestal, wiring etc to 50 amp so you would have safe additional power. Fast and cheap usually has a higher cost.

 

[SoWhat]

The correct way is to add another 30A panel with 3 15A breakers. Sounds like you only need 1 or 2 interior outlets. You will will need to run 10 ga from inlet to panel, 14 ga from 15A panel breaker to outlet. Sounds like you only want 1 breaker. A separate 30A system would not require any modifcation to your existing 30A system and is an easy afternoon job. (Assuming your pedestal has 2 30A outlets)

Doing anything else would never pass a survey, and would likely void your insurance if you ever put in a claim for fire damage.

(18F at BHSM this AM. I'm guessing your heaters are full on)

 

[DavidM]

This is what I would do for your limited needs:


Install a Marinco/Hubbel outdoor 30A shore power inlet. Run 10 gauge wire from that to a breaker within 10' as required by ABYC. Use a 20 amp breaker. Then wire a 12 gauge extension cord from the load side of that breaker to your AC.


It is reasonably cheap, safe as far as I can tell and can be upgraded to a full separate 30A system with breaker panel if desired.


David

 

[boatpoker]

You seriously need to talk to a marine electrician. Given your lack of knowledge you are going to hurt someone or lose your boat.

 

[diver dave]

ABYC (E11) allows permanent shore power cabling without an inlet fitting. If $ is the issue, that saves a lot.

 

[boatpoker]

ABYC (E11) allows permanent shore power cabling without an inlet fitting. If $ is the issue, that saves a lot.

Correct (my twin 30's are hard wired) but circuit protection and a GFCI is still required and some knowledge of bonding and grounding. Given the nature of the OP's question and reference to "extension cords" I doubt he has the knowledge required for a safe installation.

 

[SoWhat]

ABYC (E11) allows permanent shore power cabling without an inlet fitting. If $ is the issue, that saves a lot.

Probably cost more. You still need a waterproof method of getting the cable through the FB superstructure. A $40 nylon inlet connector or a $90 SS one doesn't seem like a huge expense.

A permanent installation means you would not be able to unplug your shore power cable from your boat so it would always be on deck.

I believe the OP's concern is time. Installing a 30A addition to ABYC standards shouldn't take more than 2 or 3 hours with a hole saw for the inlet and a saber saw for the panel. Not a complicated job if he installs the panel under the settee and the gfci outlet close by.

Note that tinned marine grade wiring must be used. This is not a home depot project.

 

[boatpoker]

A permanent installation means you would not be able to unplug your shore power cable from your boat so it would always be on deck.

Not at all. My twin 30's enter the boat through a recessed box with four rollers into an area behind the helm seat. I simply pull the helm seat back forward and pull the cables inside. The two 30amp ends pull up against the rollers in the recess, completely out of sight and out of weather.

 

[Lou_tribal]

Wouldn't the simplest be to replace you 30A inlet with a 50A one, change your main breaker and redo the few feet of cabling between your inlet and main if not sized for 50A? From there you can add a 20A breaker to power an extra outlet or whatever you want to power. Of course you will need a 50A dock connection.

L

 

[South of Heaven]

You seriously need to talk to a marine electrician. Given your lack of knowledge you are going to hurt someone or lose your boat.

Boatpoker: This is a pompous and rude response. You essentially said Im gonna hurt someone. How dare you?

Yes, I am a newbie boater but that's why I always do more research than most and post questions here. I don't cut corners and thats evident when you see my boat. And yes, I do have a professional who does most of my boat mods.

 

[diver dave]

Paneltronics make a fairly small, no gauges, 30 amp panel with main reverse light and 3 branch breakers. NOT having a power inlet on the side of the boat makes this a lowest cost approach; not just the inlet cost, but the inlet and the cordset female go away; many may think this is even safer.
I'm not versed on the latest ACFI/GFCI rules; so that needs to be rolled in also. I would also look up the max length of this buried hardwired shore cable before it reaches the panel.

The 50 amp 120V service conversion might be easier; but check out the 50A cordset costs!

 

[psneeld]

Nothing about s 50A service is inexpensive.

But another 30A shore power cord, inlet and panel with appropriate outlets is not cheap either for the pieces and parts ....but not complicated either. Labor would be expensive but a lot of the grunt work could be done under a pros guidance.

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Mr. SoH. To answer your original question, just run a HD extension cord. Messy? Perhaps but it IS, by far the easiest and cheapest for the winter season. Probably AYBC compatible as well. Careful routing of said cord behind or along side furniture might minimize visual impact (mess). KISS.

 

[boatpoker]

Boatpoker: This is a pompous and rude response. You essentially said Im gonna hurt someone. How dare you?

Yes, I am a newbie boater but that's why I always do more research than most and post questions here. I don't cut corners and thats evident when you see my boat. And yes, I do have a professional who does most of my boat mods.

Neither rude nor pompous. This is potentially lethal stuff not to be learned from a forum where you have no idea of the qualifications of the people giving advice. As a person with those qualifications who has investigated hundreds of marine fires I strongly recommend you hire a pro unless you are well informed on neutral bonding, ground bonding, cathodic protection bonding, GFCI's, ELCI's and more.

This is not remotely like adding an outlet in your basement. You are playing with at least two different electrical systems and water. You might wish to consider that the vast majority of boat fires are caused by electrical issues.

This is the stuff I see on a daily basis ... Electrical Nightmares

 

[Bay Pelican]

I did something similar using a 30 amp inlet and a single breaker plus a Marinco adapter to go from 30 amp female to 15 amp male so I could run it off of an extension cord. Had this hooked up to just two duplex outlets on the boat. I used this frequently on the Erie Canal where at that time there were just 15 amp shore power outlets available and thus I was able to use two at the same time. I also used this inlet repeatedly in boat yards where I did not want the shore power to run though out the boat when I was gone.

 

[ranger58sb]

It occurs to me many dock pedestals don't actually have 120V 3-prong outlets. For example, only 2 in our marina have those, specially added for those specific slip-holders...

-Chris

 

[Bill R.]

Guys,
As mentioned there is only one way to do this properly considering safety and resale value, yes it will be sold at some point.
New 30 AMP inlet and breaker panel and GFCI outlets.

 

[psneeld]

There are ALWAYS options with boats, possibly with shortcuts and part substitutions to effect costs....and stay safe and/or in compliance with insured wishes.

It is just hard to guess what those variables might be when designing a system for someone else, over the internet with no knowledge of their absolute wishes, skills or hire out thoughts.

 

[wkearney99]

This is not remotely like adding an outlet in your basement. You are playing with at least two different electrical systems and water.

This. It's not difficult when you understand how ALL the pieces need to come together. The trick is knowing all of that without risking injury/damages to yourself or others.

Especially when it comes to things like trying to add high power consumption devices like space heaters.

Get it wrong and there's risk of electrocution, fire and potential corrosion problems. Both to you, your boat and anyone else nearby.

It doesn't take too many pieces to get it right. The labor is the killer, because any time you're running wires around in a boat it's going to take a lot of time.

 

[Portage_Bay]

If available dock power dictates that you can't upgrade to 50 AMP shore power or twin 30 AMP then I'm going to send this thread off in a different direction and propose alternatives instead of answering you original question.

Think of ways to lower the load. Consider installing diesel fired heating, propane fired cooking and a low wattage water heater. The goal is to keep your electrical loads well below your shore power maximum capacity.

Work up an electrical energy budget for:

• Night time.
• At home evenings and weekends, reading, watching TV etc.
• Cooking if using electric appliances and clean up / showers if using electric water heater.

Note when your budget says you will start pushing 80% and more of your 30 AMPS available. What are the devices causing that heavy draw? As a full time liveaboard I found my steadiest heavy draw in cold weather was space heaters. I could run space heaters, not enough to handle freezing or below temps. Or I could cook. Or I could heat water. Maybe two, never all three.

With diesel forced air heat, propane cooking and a low wattage water heater I don't have to do the "30 AMP dance" much anymore.

If money is not a concern you could go with hydronic heating that heats your living areas and your water. Then you won't need to do the 30 AMP dance anymore. This will also have the advantage of extending your cruising season into the colder months in comfort.

If you're happy with the heating capacity of space heaters on 30 AMPs but it's a matter of not wanting to monitor loads and do the 30 AMP dance then consider load shedding, a common practice in R/Vs. https://www.paneltronics.com/Electrical_Components.asp?op=Technical-Information&xt01=10310105731404

 

[wkearney99]

If money is not a concern you could...

Get a boat that's already equipped for it?

Or retire to a climate that doesn't need the heaters? Of course then you'd have to deal with AC start current draw...

 

[diver dave]

Well; if the collective minds on this thread can't make a boat 120V source safe, maybe we should open this up to other alternatives. I can think of gas fired furnaces, spent (mostly) fission material, or even inductive heating of steel hulls. But, even those may be targets of the non-DIY ers.

 

[wkearney99]

Tangentially related, and with some interesting info:
http://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/s4/new-requirements-gfci-docks-41618.html