Adding city water inlet to CHB 34

[Bizsoft]

I just purchased a CHB 34 for my daughter and granddaughter to live aboard. This boat either does not have or I cannot find a hose connection for shore water.

1. If there is a freshwater connection, where is it?
2. If there isn't a connection I would love to hear some suggestions as to where to install it. There is a new 40-gallon water tank under the bed in the rear suite.

Thank you all in advance for your advice.

 

[Gdavid]

I just purchased a CHB 34 for my daughter and granddaughter to live aboard. This boat either does not have or I cannot find a hose connection for shore water.

1. If there is a freshwater connection, where is it?
2. If there isn't a connection I would love to hear some suggestions as to where to install it. There is a new 40-gallon water tank under the bed in the rear suite.

Thank you all in advance for your advice.

Be careful what you wish for, here is free advice:
Don't do this. Let them refill the tank and exercise the pump, re-filling the tank is character building and you are greatly reducing the odds of sinking the boat at the dock with your daughter and granddaughter aboard. Potable water lines in a boat are not secured in the same manner that thru-hull water plumbing is built and if a fitting breaks apart, the potable water could easily out-pace the bilge pumps. If this was your own boat, and you are intimately aware of the plumbing system's condition, I might suggest otherwise, but for putting two loved ones onboard and I have no idea how mechanically minded they are, no way.

 

[Fleming]

I'm not a big fan of them myself as I've known more than one friend who woke up in the middle of night to lots of water coming on board from a leak. But if you do install one you need to also make sure that the hot water heater pressure relief valve is plumbed overboard and not to the bilge the way most heaters are plumbed.

 

[psneeld]

As a former liveaboard of 17 years on 3 different boats, I HIGHLY recommend city water....IF.... your daughter is disciplined enough to manage turning it on and off when away from the boat for any length of time.

The second consideration is updating all of the plumbing to help ensure no leaks and working bilge pumps that can keep up with the flow..... just in case.

I find city water a relatively low threat if paid attention to, a 40 gallon tank may have to be refilled every several days depending on the occupants habits and a PIA if the tank goes dry at the wrong time and someone didn't think to fill it before it starts raining or everyone is dressed for bed.

I never worried about dying because of a fresh water leak...but yes losing the boat is always a possibility from many reasons, not just fresh water.

Many people are skittish about city water yet run their air conditioners while away from their boat. To me that makes no sense...but people are people and making sense seems to be a lost art.

Don't know the boat well enough for a great location, but the nearest place onboard, closest to the dockside connection is nice (but not necessarily best). If good for now but not at a later date, another connection can be added.

 

[Bizsoft]

Thank you for your reply. My daughter is quite handy and she's currently living aboard my 42 ft uniflite DC. She's learning the systems on my boat so she can take care of her boat when she gets it next month. Good advice on the water heater plumbing suggestions. I will definitely take that to heart.

 

[SIBERNUT]

If you do a city connection, they are notorious ankle breakers in a walkway. The event of a leak is easily negated with a lawn sprinkler gallon limiter in the line.

 

[psneeld]

If you do a city connection, they are notorious ankle breakers in a walkway. The event of a leak is easily negated with a lawn sprinkler gallon limiter in the line.

All of mine have been the recessed tyoe with built in regulators and check valves ( I think).... with a 90 degree RV water connector to point the hose down or parallel to the cabin, keeps ankle collisions to a minimum.

 

[OldDan1943]

If you insist on a direct hose connection on the boat, you will need a flow limiter/pressure reducing valve or timer at the dock. The water pressure on the boat is less that city water pressure. (See the name plate on the boat’s water pump.) Piping city water directly into the the boat’s water system is a bad idea !!!

The best way is to determine the flow rate of the hose. Use a watch and a 5gal bucket. In my case, about 6gal/min through the hose. Fill through the deck fill. That is THE safest way. This the way I do it. 2 of us on board and a washing machine, I fill the 150 gal water tank every 2-3 days. It’s just something that has to be done. Better than a well and a bucket. LOL

 

[psneeld]

And the OP said the boat has a 40 gal water tank.

At your usage rate, one would have to fill the tank every day.

Not my choice of lifestyle ....without city water.

 

[OldDan1943]

And the OP said the boat has a 40 gal water tank.

At your usage rate, one would have to fill the tank every day.

Not my choice of lifestyle ....without city water.

A 40 gal FW tank?
It will have to be filled 2-3 times a day.
The sanitary tank is how much? That too might need to empty everyday.

My 34AT carries 150 gal FW and a bit more than 45 gal sanitary tank.

 

[psneeld]

A 40 gal FW tank?
It may have to be filled every day.
The sanitary tank is how much? That too might need to empty everyday.

May have a Type 2 MSD or pumpout at the slip. Usually gray water to black water accumulation is over 10 to 1 for many people so daily, even weekly (or more) might be in order.

 

[mvweebles]

Many people are skittish about city water yet run their air conditioners while away from their boat.

Thats a really good point when you put it that way....

To the OP: On older boats, water-hookup was not often standard so not surprised you cannot find one on your CHB. I do like the idea of some sort of flow limiting device.

To install, you just need the bulkhead fitting such as the one Psneeld showed up-thread (with pressure reducer), and connect to the nearest cold water line in the boat with a simple tee fitting. The pump will prevent back-filling the water tanks. On your boat, I would think just outside the galley and tee into the line that feeds the kitchen faucet. Being in the center of the boat means it's handy if you visit another dock.

Good luck - wish my dad had been so kind.

Peter

 

[OldDan1943]

When I looked up the factory specs of the CHB34
2 Water tanks about 80 gal total
NO sanitary tank. I guess there is no head.
No mention of shower inside the boat. Guess that means, shower in the cockpit only.

 

[psneeld]

When I looked up the factory specs of the CHB34
2 Water tanks about 80 gal
NO sanitary tank.
No mention of shower inside the boat. Guess that means, shower in the cockpit only.

Good chance the boat has been greatly modified.
The OP said it was a new 40 gal tank, others may have rusted out.

Holding tanks were added as requirements were added through the years.

A shower wand was an easy addition but I will bet a tub/shower was original to the boat.

2 of the first 3 Yachtworld ads had the 34 CHB having 2 heads and a shower....plus one mentioned a holding tank. The dezcriptions were spotty at best.

 

[tiltrider1]

I am against hooking directly to city water. Boats are generally designed around 40-60 psi. City water can easily be 90psi.

If you need to do an auto fill, I recommend using a twist timer and an irrigation valve with an adjustable flow restricter. All some one has to do is reach out the door and turn the knob to get more water. This way the water is only on while you are home. All failure points are pre water entering the boat.

Good point about the air conditioner. However, I have not heard of a boat being sunk by a failed AC plumbing. I suppose it has happened but it appears to be rare. Possibly due to much lower Psi.

 

[HeadMistress]

Rules for shore water installation and use:


A pressure regulator designed for use with shore water systems is essential. However, there are only two kinds--those that have failed and those that will. So it's even more essential that the shore water line only be connected when someone is aboard--and awake!--to hear the first sound of gushing water. Best to disconnect when leaving the boat even for an hour and/or last thing before going to bed at night.

In case you think I'm over cautious...a sailboat owner in my marina took his dog for a run one Sunday morning, was only gone about an hour. Came back to find his deck shoes afloat in the cabin. A member on another forum woke up in the middle of the night needing to use the head...stepped out his v-berth into calf deep water. At least 2 or three houseboats sank in their slips every summer during the week.

Just sayin'....




--Peggie

 

[HopCar]

I always suggested to my customers who connected directly to city water that they install a volumetric shut off valve. The valve would go in the hose connecting the boat to city water.

This allows you to set the valve to shut off after a set amount of water has flowed through it. Set it each day or two to what ever amount you feel comfortable pumping into your bilge, say a hundred gallons. That way if an interior pipe leaks you can’t sink the boat.
https://farmerboyag.com/3-4-inch-250-gallon-volumetric-shut-off-valve/

 

[Comodave]

I am usually against city water hookups. We had a hose give way on a motorhome and we weren’t there. A neighbor in the campground turned it off for us but it was easily visible. In the case of a liveaboard boat with only 40 gallons of water, if that is correct, then I would be tempted to go to a city water hookup, IF you use the above mentioned water limiting devices AND a very loud high water alarm in case you do blow a water line loose. That way some others in the marina might hear the high water alarm and turn off the water. I would also put a sign in the window as to what the alarm was about and ask that whoever responded turn off the water. The water limiting device could fail…

 

[psneeld]

Having had city water for 17 years, at least while living aboard, I probably had 4 or 5 water system leaks develop. 3 were back to back to back because the water heater. The water heater that came with my last liveaboard boat, for some reason had the output nipple get so hot it would cause the vinyl tubing to fail and split. All 3 times I woke up in the morning and thought the salon felt warm and steamy. Sure enough, a couple inches of hot water in the bilge and the tubing split. The exact same thing could have happened with the water pump on and no one aboard. Fortunately with my background, the bilge pumps were in top condition and overkill for a city water leak and easily kept up. Yes I know the fresh tanks aren't usually so large to sink the boat, but if you have one working bilge pump and you visit the boat regularly or liveaboard...I doubt a city water malfunction will sink the boat

If a city water hose delivers on average 5-6 gallons a minute, that's only about 300-400 gph which a tiny bilge pump can either keep up with or if it can't and only does half....it would take quite a few hours before my 40 footer's bilge would be near full. That is only IF a total hose failure occurs and what are those probabilities?

As far as pressure regulators, I agree a good home type is a good idea.... with a pressure gauge. With the pressure gauge, one can see what the water pressure at the marina is and if really high at any time during the day, well then using the tank/pump may be a good idea. The west coast with it's high terrain may have high city water pressure, but I really can't remember ever seeing above 50 or 60 psi at an East coast marina in my whole life. Nor at any of the RV campgrounds I have stayed at over the years.

I also agree a "gallon" limiter is a good idea (just disconnect/remove before freezing temps...broke a couple that way). Turning them up to 200 gallons or so is a good start to see how much you actually use per day/week.

For those that have water tanks that can last all week, I can see not using city water full time.... for those with less than 75 or so.... just depends on how much you like filling your tanks. Being extra vigilant is a small price that filling tanks at an inopportune time.

 

[Bmarler]

Been living aboard for thirty years or so. Always had a city water hook up. Always turn it off when leaving the boat. Use a good quality inlet fitting, good quality plumbing. Cycle plenty through the tanks when cruising.

Have a bilge alarm set nice and low in the bilge.

 

[rwidman]

Be careful what you wish for, here is free advice:
Don't do this. Let them refill the tank and exercise the pump, re-filling the tank is character building and you are greatly reducing the odds of sinking the boat at the dock with your daughter and granddaughter aboard. Potable water lines in a boat are not secured in the same manner that thru-hull water plumbing is built and if a fitting breaks apart, the potable water could easily out-pace the bilge pumps. If this was your own boat, and you are intimately aware of the plumbing system's condition, I might suggest otherwise, but for putting two loved ones onboard and I have no idea how mechanically minded they are, no way.

This would be my advice as well.

Don't install a city water connection, fill the tanks.

 

[Bmarler]

Oh yeah, where to install. I always like to have all my utilities close together. That lets you group and restrain everything as a bundle. Not sure where the power inlet is on that, seen it on both ends.
That boat doesn’t have a cockpit per se, (if it’s what I think it is) many times the shore power came in the cabin side up forward. No matter where it goes, it’ll be something to step over. That’s just how it goes sometimes.
Do check to see if the inlet fitting has a check valve. You definitely need one.

 

[catalinajack]

Having had city water for 17 years, at least while living aboard, I probably had 4 or 5 water system leaks develop. 3 were back to back to back because the water heater. The water heater that came with my last liveaboard boat, for some reason had the output nipple get so hot it would cause the vinyl tubing to fail and split. All 3 times I woke up in the morning and thought the salon felt warm and steamy. Sure enough, a couple inches of hot water in the bilge and the tubing split. The exact same thing could have happened with the water pump on and no one aboard. Fortunately with my background, the bilge pumps were in top condition and overkill for a city water leak and easily kept up. Yes I know the fresh tanks aren't usually so large to sink the boat, but if you have one working bilge pump and you visit the boat regularly or liveaboard...I doubt a city water malfunction will sink the boat

If a city water hose delivers on average 5-6 gallons a minute, that's only about 300-400 gph which a tiny bilge pump can either keep up with or if it can't and only does half....it would take quite a few hours before my 40 footer's bilge would be near full. That is only IF a total hose failure occurs and what are those probabilities?

As far as pressure regulators, I agree a good home type is a good idea.... with a pressure gauge. With the pressure gauge, one can see what the water pressure at the marina is and if really high at any time during the day, well then using the tank/pump may be a good idea. The west coast with it's high terrain may have high city water pressure, but I really can't remember ever seeing above 50 or 60 psi at an East coast marina in my whole life. Nor at any of the RV campgrounds I have stayed at over the years.

I also agree a "gallon" limiter is a good idea (just disconnect/remove before freezing temps...broke a couple that way). Turning them up to 200 gallons or so is a good start to see how much you actually use per day/week.

For those that have water tanks that can last all week, I can see not using city water full time.... for those with less than 75 or so.... just depends on how much you like filling your tanks. Being extra vigilant is a small price that filling tanks at an inopportune time.

A water heater plumbed into a system using plastic tubing should not be connected without at least 18 inches of copper tubing at the water heater. The Uniform Plumbing Code (UPC 604.13) states that*“PEX tubing shall not be installed within the first 18 inches of piping connected to a water heater."* But the UPC is not used in all jurisdictions. Doesn't matter.

Now, how did I learn one reason why this should not be done? I had purchased a new marine water heater and plumbed it directly to Pex tubing. The tubing was rated to 100 psi at 180 degrees. Note: I did not plumb the heater to the engine heat loop. Anyway, the overlimit switch failed causing the water to be heated beyond the design spec. Yup, that Pex tubing exploded, nearly in my face. I came distressing close to having my face severly scalded. Of course, I went overkill in replumbing the hot side connection. I used half -inch copper at the heater and new 3/8 copper tubing from the 1/2-inch at the heater for about six feet of copper before I teed it into the mail line.

As for those owners who are using engine water, I caution them to not use plastic anywhere near the water heater.

 

[Andiamo2018]

https://www.amazon.com/Water-Block-Excess-Shutoff-Valve/dp/B074V9LL19

Another option for automatic shut off

 

[Ric]

I will join the chorus advising you not to do it at all. First, because of the risk of sinking. We once had a nylon line burst inside a bulkhead and flooded the engine room. On another boat we had copper piping I tried hooking up at a marina where town water pressure spiked to over 140psi episodically, usually at night. That was outside the specs of our regulator. Funniest problem was when we were connected and the town water supply went down. I was on deck wondering why a guy watering his boat a few berths down had so little water coming out of his hose. Then I went below and heard the water pump running continuously; we were supplying water to the marina through the shore water connection.
IMHO, your daughter is going to be living on a boat, so she should start learning about the lifestyle, which differs from life in a condo. Monitoring water usage and tank volumes (fresh, gray, and black) is an important habit to internalize. Like checking the bilges.....

 

[88FuHwa]

Our vessel came with a device similar to the one psneeld shows in his picture. We always turn the water off when not on board and have had no problems whatever for almost 20 years. Remember that if relying on onboard tankage that your pressure pump will be cycling which can be very annoying.

 

[Circumnavigator]

As I have said before, on our circumnav, when we were showering every day, we used about five gallons of potable water per person for all purposes -- drinking, cooking, dishes, showers -- except flushing the toilet. So 40 gallons will last two people four days.


All of the cautions above are correct -- this can sink you boat and potable water systems are not designed for this on most boats.



In some marinas, the water comes to each finger float down the main, non floating pier, out in the sun. The water coming out of the hose will be HOT! If the pipes are shaded all the way to the hose bib, the hose will still get HOT!, so it must be kept short.


I like to run the water for a little while before putting it in tanks -- the heat will always leach some bad stuff into the water in the hose. If you connect the hose directly to the boat, all the water that comes in -- except maybe for a long shower -- will have bad stuff from the hose in it.


Jim

 

[Knot Fast]

+1 on Volumetric Shut Off Valve (located on the dock near the spigot, not on the boat (in case the shut off fails)) in series with a pressure reducer. I was not a fan of the pressure reducer built into the fresh water port on the boat. Mine was a standalone brass hose end pressure reducer that dropped water pressure to ~45 psi. Still plenty for a good shower and ~2X less than my pex fittings rating. An inexpensive water pressure dial gauge (~$10) is handy to quantify the psi of a new location if staying there long enough to hook up.

 

[catalinajack]

Our vessel came with a device similar to the one psneeld shows in his picture. We always turn the water off when not on board and have had no problems whatever for almost 20 years. Remember that if relying on onboard tankage that your pressure pump will be cycling which can be very annoying.

If you have a good pump setup, you should not experience short cycling. We did and never had that problem.