AIS question. Raymarine AIS700

[Eli27]

Hello all hope you are all as well as can be.

I have the raymarine AIS700. I installed it today and it has been running for a few hrs. I was wondering if anybody has installed one and also has app on there phone that can actually see the signal like "boatbeacon".

My question is when I turned the system on and programmed the mmsi number into the unit it also has ship name and size. Well, it took about half hr for the app to finally show me but the name and size are not registering. It's updating but the name has not appeared yet.

Has anyone seen this? Does it take time to record the name and boat size from AIS?

Yes, I have shut the system on and off a few times. I verified ibhave the latest software. I just want to be able to see the name of the boat,,, more for my brother so he knows where my location is at all times. And yes, me and my brother are that close. And he's the only reason why I bought this POS to begin with.

Anyway, all comments are always appreciated.

 

[Comodave]

Did you call Raymarine? I have always had good customer service from them.

 

[jwag956]

I have the same unit - and have spent time with other local boaters trying to understand why there is a difference in what my chart plotters show and what sites like MarineTraffic show.
Here are some thoughts - apps/sites like Boat Beacon aren't 'seeing the signal' - since that's VHF - they are grabbing the info from some other (govt?) site- just like sites like MarineTraffic. An advantage those sites have is that they can take info such as MMSI and look it up on publically available DBs (such as FCC) and find name and other info.

So - for example, I have some dock mates that show up on Marine Traffic as MMSI and name - but on my chartplotter just show up as MMSI. I believe this is due to their AIS NOT transmitting name (which you have programmed in).

All this to say - I wouldn't assume that sites like Boatbeacon are taking 'name' from whatever source they are using or what algorithm they use to discern name.

I would start with going to a dock-mate and ask if they see you - MMSI, name etc on their AIS receiver/chart plotter. Then you will know if your AIS unit is set up correctly - from there you can tackle the other parts.

 

[Eli27]

I have the same unit - and have spent time with other local boaters trying to understand why there is a difference in what my chart plotters show and what sites like MarineTraffic show.
Here are some thoughts - apps/sites like Boat Beacon aren't 'seeing the signal' - since that's VHF - they are grabbing the info from some other (govt?) site- just like sites like MarineTraffic. An advantage those sites have is that they can take info such as MMSI and look it up on publically available DBs (such as FCC) and find name and other info.

So - for example, I have some dock mates that show up on Marine Traffic as MMSI and name - but on my chartplotter just show up as MMSI. I believe this is due to their AIS NOT transmitting name (which you have programmed in).

All this to say - I wouldn't assume that sites like Boatbeacon are taking 'name' from whatever source they are using or what algorithm they use to discern name.

I would start with going to a dock-mate and ask if they see you - MMSI, name etc on their AIS receiver/chart plotter. Then you will know if your AIS unit is set up correctly - from there you can tackle the other parts.

As soon as I posted I realized I have a laptop chartplotter I bought with AIS recieve capability. Just got back to the boat and fired it up and all is well from the unit doing its job. So it's definitely not me.

Thanks

 

[OldDan1943]

Remember, you may be able to hide from AIS but pretty much impossible to hide from RADAR.

I keep my AIS overlay only on RADAR, chart display can get really crowded close to shore.

 

[Comodave]

Remember, you may be able to hide from AIS but pretty much impossible to hide from RADAR.

I keep my AIS overlay only on RADAR, chart display can get really crowded close to shore.

Actually, not quite true. We have been in a situation where radar didn’t work due to the extremely heavy rain, it was white out. However the AIS did work and showed me a 700’+ ship on a collision course with me. I couldn’t see it on radar but it showed up nicely on the plotter. We negotiated crossing and we didn’t collide, which was nice.

 

[Graeme Walker]

I have the same unit and had some antenna issues, you have to use the one provided by Raymarine, not attach to an existing VHF antenna. That being said I believe it takes a while for 'additional' information to show up, heard its about 10minutes. If you brother just wants to see where you are why don't you use NeboLink? AIS provides other advantages however. We did try the AIS app and found it was way to inaccurate for navigation.

 

[Eli27]

I have the same unit and had some antenna issues, you have to use the one provided by Raymarine, not attach to an existing VHF antenna. That being said I believe it takes a while for 'additional' information to show up, heard its about 10minutes. If you brother just wants to see where you are why don't you use NeboLink? AIS provides other advantages however. We did try the AIS app and found it was way to inaccurate for navigation.

The "antenna" that came with m unit is the GPS antenna. The antenna for the vhf is connected to the unit and I'm using it as a pass through.

Now, if you don't know much about matching a radio to its antenna you may not understand what I'm about to write.

I matched my radio to antenna for a near perfect 1 to 1SWR. As I added the AIS I verified again for a near perfect match of 1 to 1. I checked with AIS on and off.

My understanding is the AIS signals are transmitted on a frequency just above the vhf,,, 2 or 3 megs above. I do not believe the GPS antenna has anything to do with transmitting the ais info. That antenna is used to tell the unit where it is on the planet. Then the unit transmits that info along with info you programmed into the AIS system on the ground.

Now it looks to me when a new AIS signal is received by the app, it takes them a while to process it before its loaded onto the app for you and me to see it. Also, it seems to me that it doesn't just take all the info and show it,,,, kinda takes the important info like mmsi and GPS coordinates and transmits them first and then it slowly adds the rest of the info in time.

This morning when I woke up I checked the app,,,,, and there I was name and all. Yippee for me I'm so happy (being extremely sarcastic)

As far as going with other apps for location purposes,,,, I'm also thinking about the boat. I'm really big on saftey. I like having separate systems for info. I think all these systems that are on one big network are fine and all. God bless ya if that's what you have. But I like 100% redundancy. I've got a garmin 943 with its own built in GPS antenna, (yes, you can also get an external for it) it's accuracy is 8.6ft. That's almost a fifth of the size of the boat,,, no need to be more accurate.

I've got an icom vhf with GPS. I've got a small garmin handheld with charts. I've got a laptop with charts, GPS, and AIS receive. And then I got my phone. Everything is separated. If one goes down it's the only one that goes down.

Is it overkill???? Sure but when it only cost just under 2k for the extras (laptop and handheld,,,and who doesn't have a phone) what's 2k?

If you own a boat and you take the boat out once or twice a month and tool around a few miles here and there then you should have all that interconnected stuff. Makes life easy. But if you take your boat on adventures,, 2,3,4days or a week or 2 and you travel serious distances I think priorities should be saftey and redundancy.

But after all the redundancy,,,, when our enemies hit our GPS systems and its offline and we won't know if we are coming or going. I've got my charts.

 

[sledge]

One hint about verifying AIS, perhaps you already know this. AIS is hard to check when sitting at a dock because when stationary, it slows down to transmitting position only once every (I believe) 6 minutes or so depending on version you have. The transmit period picks up significantly once the boat is moving.
As for the antenna (forgive me for geeking out, I'm a retired EE), you're mostly correct at least in part. AIS is a very small subset of the VHF band but its not above the band but in the midst of it. It is a couple of channels right around 162 MHz, whereas VHF marine Comm encompasses 156 to 174. frequency is inverse to the dimension of the antenna, i.e.: lower frequency = longer wavelength = longer antenna. The antenna dimension is typically dictated by the lowest frequency it can manage.
This is why if you buy a dedicated AIS antenna, it will almost always be a bit shorter than your general VHF comm antenna, which has to operate down to 156 MHz. You can certainly get by with a shared antenna, but being an engineer and a little OCD, I prefer having the dedicated AIS.
Sorry again; probably TMI

 

[ranger58sb]

The "antenna" that came with m unit is the GPS antenna. The antenna for the vhf is connected to the unit and I'm using it as a pass through.

Generic question for the forum: What happens if you're using the VHF radio at the same time your AIS is meant to do an update broadcast?

(FWIW, our 4' AIS VHF transmit antenna is separate from the other two 8' VHF radio/antenna systems...)

-Chris

 

[Graeme Walker]

One hint about verifying AIS, perhaps you already know this. AIS is hard to check when sitting at a dock because when stationary, it slows down to transmitting position only once every (I believe) 6 minutes or so depending on version you have. The transmit period picks up significantly once the boat is moving.
As for the antenna (forgive me for geeking out, I'm a retired EE), you're mostly correct at least in part. AIS is a very small subset of the VHF band but its not above the band but in the midst of it. It is a couple of channels right around 162 MHz, whereas VHF marine Comm encompasses 156 to 174. frequency is inverse to the dimension of the antenna, i.e.: lower frequency = longer wavelength = longer antenna. The antenna dimension is typically dictated by the lowest frequency it can manage.
This is why if you buy a dedicated AIS antenna, it will almost always be a bit shorter than your general VHF comm antenna, which has to operate down to 156 MHz. You can certainly get by with a shared antenna, but being an engineer and a little OCD, I prefer having the dedicated AIS.
Sorry again; probably TMI

In the installation manual, section 8.6 says to only use the supplied GNS antenna for send/receive, typical CYA but this was reinforced by the technician when I called after having issues. This particular AIS is not as 'flexible' as others and must have that antenna, even suggested using another would/could damage the AIS unit. If it works for you great!

 

[sledge]

Generic question for the forum: What happens if you're using the VHF radio at the same time your AIS is meant to do an update broadcast?

(FWIW, our 4' AIS VHF transmit antenna is separate from the other two 8' VHF radio/antenna systems...)

-Chris

If your AIS is built into your VHF radio, keying the radio for voice will take precedence and interrupt the AIS transmission. AIS will resume on its next designated period.
If you have a separate AIS box, it depends on selected power level and also how close your antennas are mounted. It is possible the same thing will happen; the AIS could be very briefly saturated/overpowered by your voice VHF, but again should resume operation at its next period.
Some sources like BoatUS recommend antennas be physically separated by at least 4 feet.

 

[ranger58sb]

If you have a separate AIS box, it depends on selected power level and also how close your antennas are mounted. It is possible the same thing will happen; the AIS could be very briefly saturated/overpowered by your voice VHF, but again should resume operation at its next period.
Some sources like BoatUS recommend antennas be physically separated by at least 4 feet.

I meant the question to be about cases of dual-use of a single VHF antenna. I've read some people use a splitter and a single antenna -- to VHF radio and to AIS transceiver -- to service both VHF and AIS functions.

My assumption would be that using a VHF radio might override an AIS transmission.

??

-Chris

 

[sledge]

Chris,
Yes thats a great question, I've not used a splitter as I too have a dedicated AIS but from what I've read you are correct in that the voice keying would override or essentially take control of the splitter and interrupt AIS.
If your boat is moving somewhat fast, I'd imagine to an outside observer it might look like your position was stationary for a moment and then it would jump to a new position as soon as AIS regained control. However of course for trawlers the effect is probably not significant and infrequent. I did find a pretty good BoatUS article on this topic:

https://www.boatus.com/expert-advic...l/what-you-need-to-know-before-installing-ais

 

[Nepidae]

RAy AIS

1st, yes call Ray and see what they say, I must say that all I have heard about Ray support was not all that positive.

AIS as was said is VHF and if there is info you are not getting it probably is the AIS transceiver, IF it is a transceiver, and I'm not familiar with Ray as we are a Garmin boat.

My experience with my Garmin AIS 800 has been great on the inland rivers and places where the tows are located as well as shipping lanes for the big boys.

Boat names are often, where tugs are concerned, unlisted or the MMSI number is displayed, but that is the sending boat, not your AIS. We used to call them on VHF with, tug coming up to such & such corner, which side do you want us on and always got a reply to handle the transition.

A transceiver on your boat should record info immediately as there is no time lag from the signals coming from other boats. It is being transmitted and you are receiving any and all signals.

The big problem you will find with AIS is that a lot of boats leave their AIS on when tied to a dock, so you pick those up as well.

Try going into your MFD and seeing how the AIS is set up. There are setting there for how far from a target the AIS will respond and other settings.

Good luck.

 

[twistedtree]

I meant the question to be about cases of dual-use of a single VHF antenna. I've read some people use a splitter and a single antenna -- to VHF radio and to AIS transceiver -- to service both VHF and AIS functions.

My assumption would be that using a VHF radio might override an AIS transmission.

??

-Chris

Yes, with a "splitter", like the one built into the AIS-800, VHF takes precedence and will stomp on any coincident AIS transmission.

 

[Nautica]

Yes, with a "splitter", like the one built into the AIS-800, VHF takes precedence and will stomp on any coincident AIS transmission.

I believe the reverse is true (but not 100%), if the splitter is a built in one. In any case, the AIS transmission is only milliseconds long , so hardly impacts a voice transmission.
We are talking about Class 2 AIS here, so their regular transmissions are in fact not regular, and can be delayed by slot availability quite significantly in busy areas. Class 1 AIS take precedence always.
Your AIS transmission to a boat. in VHF range is direct, AIS to AIS. Marine traffic get there data from shore basd receiving stations, so your. computer display is not direct, and is not received directly from an AIS on a boat. To receive AIS signal you must receive VHF or satellite
Sorry for this convoluted response

 

[twistedtree]

I believe the reverse is true (but not 100%), if the splitter is a built in one. In any case, the AIS transmission is only milliseconds long , so hardly impacts a voice transmission.
We are talking about Class 2 AIS here, so their regular transmissions are in fact not regular, and can be delayed by slot availability quite significantly in busy areas. Class 1 AIS take precedence always.
Your AIS transmission to a boat. in VHF range is direct, AIS to AIS. Marine traffic get there data from shore basd receiving stations, so your. computer display is not direct, and is not received directly from an AIS on a boat. To receive AIS signal you must receive VHF or satellite
Sorry for this convoluted response

I agree with everything you said except which device gets priority. Here's from one splitter's (Sitex) installation manual:


In the event that both the VHF radio and AIS transceiver are transmitting at the same time, the AIS antenna splitter will give priority to the VHF radio.
It is not possible for both connected devices to transmit simultaneously using a single VHF antenna. Whilst you are talking on your VHF radio no AIS position reports will be transmitted.







That said, I don't know of any regulations that say the device MUST operate this way, so perhaps some manufacturers have reversed the priority.

 

[Nautica]

Yes I think you are correct. You are backed up by logic too - if the VHF transmission was a Mayday, you wouldn't want anything to interrupt it!

 

[twistedtree]

Yes I think you are correct. You are backed up by logic too - if the VHF transmission was a Mayday, you wouldn't want anything to interrupt it!

I expect that's the rational. Plus, the particular AIS transmission isn't that critical, with another one soon following.