Alaska/boating newbie seeking info

[robs523]

Hey everyone, it's been over a year since I started this thread, and in that time, a friend gave me a homemade 20' wooden Glen-L Carolina Dory. I added a motor, have had a blast, and now we're ready to upgrade. It doesn't take long with cold, waterlogged passengers to make a family daytrip get old quickly, and the few hunting trips in the snow I did were a lot less enjoyable than if I had a cabin! Comparing our thoughts now to everything that was said last December, not much has changed. I still plan on doing a lot of fishing, and I still get 6-7 days off every 4 weeks or so. I also still plan on getting a trawler. I've talked to people, cruised the docks, and would probably be embarrassed if I could add up all the hours I've spent online looking at boats since Sep 2014.

So far, I am really leaning towards a 34' Californian. I like the ability to go a little faster with 2 motors for those 1 day fishing trips when we just want to get out and back, and also having the ability to cruise at 7 knots for the 5-6 day or longer family adventures or hunting trips will be great. We really like the deck space compared to something like a CHB tri-cabin. We don't need the aft cabin, and the deck space would really be missed, plus they seem so far out of the water that it looks like it would be more challenging to haul fish on board. I have also looked at a few like the Grand Banks 32 Sedan (FG, wood has been ruled out) but I think the 2nd motor on the Californian would be worth the extra cost in fuel and suit our needs better. I love the usable space all around the boat comapred to a Mainship or similar style, and my wife and I think the flybridge would be worth its weight in gold on those sunny days we occasionally get.

I have found a few possibilities in Seattle and am working with a broker down there to help out and I will do a sea trial and get a professional survey done before purchasing anything. I love the idea of hiring a captain to come up with me but hate the idea of spending $6000 to do it. I'm half tempted to read a Waggoners inside and out as well as a couple books about cruising the inside passage and doing it with a few friends with more experience than me. The adventurous part of me thinks that would be great, the logical side of me thinks it's an insane idea, I haven't decided who to listen to yet Old Deckhand is willing to let me take a look at his boat this weekend, and I'm sure I'll talk his ear off with questions about all of this.

Any ideas on fishing from trawlers, deck space, obvious things that I'm not seeing, or anything else would be great. I've been reading a lot on the forums here lately and really appreciate the information. It's great to be back, and hopefully I'll be posting pics in a few months. Thanks!

 

[ksanders]

I started boating in 2000.

Brought my own 34' Bayliner up the inside passage in 2003.

You can do it. You will make mistakes. You will learn allot along the way.

The biggest lesson I learned...

The Canadians measure their seas in meters.

I took out of Prince Rupert in 3-5's

I thought 3-5' They were 3-5 meters.

But I lived, and learned so that was good.

 

[Northern Spy]

Don't forget to look at Tollycraft. Lot of boat for the price, and many are often available between Washington, BC, and Alaska. Everything in BC is now 30% off!

Must love the color turquoise though...

 

[AKDoug]

The trip really doesn't need a professional "captain", you can do it. One of the keys is to plan your destinations so that you have decent anchorages every night to stay in, many sections of the route have no anchorages at all, very steep shores and very deep water. It is also well traveled, so you have to get a little off the main route to get a decent nights sleep. That said it is really an easy route to navigate.

Be sure your equipment is in good operating condition, anchoring equipment and running gear. It's a bad place to be broken down, friendly tows are not a common occurrence. Anyone who ventures out that far wants to stay and play, not tow you in. You should have friends or make friends with those who have the charts for Canadian waters, you shouldn't have to buy them. The map chart chip for Canadian waters is well worth the investment, I wish I had made it.

The logs are much less of an issue now than they were on my first trip, they are well bundled in tow now where as they were loose in tow in 1985. I saw very few loose logs coming up in 2013, heavy rains can change that in only a few days though.

Feel free to contact me for personal preferences as you get closer to planning your trip up. Two trips up doesn't make me a professional, but it does make me experienced and opinionated

 

[User915]

robs, I'd suggest you start walking the docks and see what others up there are using. Try to determine if you're going to be running around between Baranoff and the AK shore, or if you're planning on venturing longer distances. Talk to the fishing boat skippers to get their advice, and if time and money allows, take a hike down to Seattle to the boat show in January.

Just don't do like a lot of people do--they buy their first boat without doing their homework and determining if it will suit their needs. Then after a year or two they find it doesn't work for them and they end up trading it or selling it. Either way, they take a financial hit.

My advice is buy your second boat first. In other words, do you homework, talk to a lot of people, find out how they use their boats, go on board as many boats as you can and walk around the boat to see if it offers what you want...room, sleeping accommodations, cooking facilities, one or two heads, etc.

Then enlist the help of a good broker to help you find the right boat. That won't cost you anything--he's paid by the seller, so use him.

Good luck with your search and keep us informed of how goes the battle.

Very well said, Mike

 

[RCook]

The trip really doesn't need a professional "captain", you can do it. One of the keys is to plan your destinations so that you have decent anchorages every night to stay in, many sections of the route have no anchorages at all, very steep shores and very deep water. It is also well traveled, so you have to get a little off the main route to get a decent nights sleep. That said it is really an easy route to navigate.

Be sure your equipment is in good operating condition, anchoring equipment and running gear. It's a bad place to be broken down, friendly tows are not a common occurrence. Anyone who ventures out that far wants to stay and play, not tow you in. You should have friends or make friends with those who have the charts for Canadian waters, you shouldn't have to buy them. The map chart chip for Canadian waters is well worth the investment, I wish I had made it.

The logs are much less of an issue now than they were on my first trip, they are well bundled in tow now where as they were loose in tow in 1985. I saw very few loose logs coming up in 2013, heavy rains can change that in only a few days though.

Agreed. And a few more thoughts:

Have key spares on board (belts, impellers, filters etc) and the tools and experience to be able to change as needed. You will likely be "out there" when something needs work.

Logs tend to be considerably more numerous during the spring tides, which come up higher and tend to float some off the beaches. Every so often we come upon quite a collection of them. Even though we travel mostly slow, we do need to keep a lookout for them.

Make sure you understand the tidal currents in the squeeze points north of Campbell River between Vancouver Island and the mainland. There are a few you really need to time fairly close to slack current, which is often quite a bit different from the timing of high or low tide. Sergius Narrows in Peril Strait needs timing also. " Ports and Passes" is a good source for BC tides and currents.

The Exploring Series cruising guides by Douglass, particularly Exploring the North Coast of BC, and Exploring Southeast Alaska, provide lots of good info on anchorages. You might also register on the Active Captain website - lots of info on anchorages, marinas, and more.

 

[koliver]

Logs are much less of a problem now than in years past, though we tend not to forget how frequently a huge log used to be in the way.
Forestry stumpage costs, levied against the logging Co.s, used to be based upon the volume of wood scaled at the mill, after an often tumultuous voyage through those same waters. A change to scaling at the sort nearest the source of the logs meant the Co.s were paying for all the wood they lost, so quickly changed to bundled booms or self loading barges. Benefits to us all by cleaning up the loose logs. Beachcombers are virtually non existent now.
High river levels in the spring still bring some logs, but the great mass of newly cut trees is gone for good.

 

[BandB]

Logs are much less of a problem now than in years past, though we tend not to forget how frequently a huge log used to be in the way.
Forestry stumpage costs, levied against the logging Co.s, used to be based upon the volume of wood scaled at the mill, after an often tumultuous voyage through those same waters. A change to scaling at the sort nearest the source of the logs meant the Co.s were paying for all the wood they lost, so quickly changed to bundled booms or self loading barges. Benefits to us all by cleaning up the loose logs. Beachcombers are virtually non existent now.
High river levels in the spring still bring some logs, but the great mass of newly cut trees is gone for good.

When we went to Alaska, the warnings of logs far exceeded the reality of anything we encountered or saw. The spring run off is true on virtually all bodies of water. Certainly the high waters of spring on the lake we lived on as a result of the snow melting in the mountains brought everything imaginable off the shoreline.

 

[robs523]

thank you everyone for the replies. When I came up here on the ferry, I noticed sections that seemed like there were quite a few logs, but maybe it's nothing compared to what it used to be. I have nothing to compare it to, yet. Your replies are encouraging, I think I better get some charts and order some books so I can get busy reading!

 

[Nomad Willy]

We lived near Ketchikan for 8 yrs ... hit a log in Clarence Strait. ... "BOOM". What a sound it made but no damage that we could find. Saw it come up astern and was about 10" dia and 10' long. T boned a Humpback whale too and survived that as well. The little Willard may be a tough boat.

 

[Marin]

I love the idea of hiring a captain to come up with me but hate the idea of spending $6000 to do it. I'm half tempted to read a Waggoners inside and out as well as a couple books about cruising the inside passage and doing it with a few friends with more experience than me. The adventurous part of me thinks that would be great, the logical side of me thinks it's an insane idea,

I don't think it's insane at all. Lots of people have done exactly what you are contemplating doing and done just fine. Some of them had less boating experience than you do.

Ninety percent of boating is common sense in my opinion. Weather reporting is pretty good up the coast and there are tons of places between here and there to hole up safely if the weather turns sour. You want to have Plans A, B and C of course, but as long as you don't let yourself become rushed, I suspect from your posts that it's nothing that's beyond your capabilities.

People have made the trip in rowing skiffs, kayaks, outboard powered skiffs, outboard boats like C-Dories and SeaSports, you name it.

And there are options, of course. You can do it on your own. You can do it in the company of friends who have Inside Passage experience as you mention. You can also perhaps pair up with another boat or boats that are making the trip and may have done so before.

There are so-called "mother goose" cruises up the Passage and back in which people go in their own or chartered boats but the group is led by people experienced with the route. There is generally a cost associated with this; I don't know what it is or how it varies.

There are a number of good guidebooks for the journey. Waggoners may be one of the weakest in terms of its information about the Passage but they're all worth looking at.

If you're in Seattle I suggest you take a run out to Captain's Nautical Supplies in Ballard (they've moved from their longtime location in Interbay). They have every book and every chart and every piece of written or drawn information on the Inside Passage known to man.

We've flown the Inside Passage many, many times in the floatplane. The main route is like a highway. Everything from little recreational boats to fishing boats to tugs and barges to the Alaska and BC ferries to cruise ships is traipsing up and down that route all summer long. It continues in the winter but not to same degree.

Yes, there are countless side trips you can take and be as far from other people as it's possible to be. But if your objective is to get there in the simplest, most direct and risk-free manner, you'll have lots of company along the way.

I think the number one rule for trips like this is don't be rushed. Where so many people get in trouble is in letting the pressure of having to be someplace at such and such a time force them into going when they should be staying.

I have a friend who's going to be crewing on a converted 60' tug that's going up this spring to Craig to serve as a private fishing getaway for the owner and his friends throughout the summer. It's an 8 knot boat, same as our cabin cruiser. Running only in daylight, and assuming the weather cooperates (which it never does) it's a ten day trip. I've heard this same trip time from other people we've met over the years with boats with the same cruise speed.

Does that mean you'll do it in ten days? Probably not. But you can see that even in a slow boat, it's not that long of a run time-wise. So if you allow a month or two, say, you should have more than enough time complete with weather delays to make the trip with no "gotta get there" pressure at all.

So give it a shot. You only go around once and it's better to look back on the cool things you did than lie there at the end thinking about the cool things you wish you'd done.

I envy you the opportunity and adventure you're facing.

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

Welcome! Lots of info here

 

[robs523]

thanks everyone, you've all been very helpful. Looking back, I apparently left out one very key piece of information: The only time I will have to make this journey this year is from April 26 - May 8th, exactly 13 days, thats flying down there sometime after work on April 25th. How much does that change things?

 

[Marin]

thanks everyone, you've all been very helpful. Looking back, I apparently left out one very key piece of information: The only time I will have to make this journey this year is from April 26 - May 8th, exactly 13 days, thats flying down there sometime after work on April 25th. How much does that change things?

April and May still have very variable weather. It's conceivable you could run into some long weather delays. Also if you experience a boat problem along the way, particularly north of Campbell River you could be looking at some substantial down time for parts and repairs. We've experienced this with our trailer boat up on Queen Charlotte Strait.

I think with just 13 days and a day or less to get ready and get going you are upping the risk factor a lot. Plus you are introducing the very thing that can lead to a bad decision and that's pressure to stick to a very tight timetable.

What will you do if you get to Port Hardy, for example, and learn that Queen Charlotte Sound and Cape Caution are going to experience high winds and big waves and swells for the next three or four days? You will use up much of your reserve tine right there.

That's my take on the time window you've given yourself. Others may have different thoughts.

 

[robs523]

thanks Marin, those have been some of my greatest concerns. I talked about it with one potential Captain and he said there are harbors I could get off and get a bus ride to Vancouver, catch a puddle jumper to an airport where Alaska Air might be, etc..I am also considering paying someone to bring the boat to Ketchikan and then I get it from there. Or ideally I find one in Juneau or Ketchikan and problem solved. I appreciate the input, thanks

 

[Marin]

thanks Marin, those have been some of my greatest concerns. I talked about it with one potential Captain and he said there are harbors I could get off and get a bus ride to Vancouver, catch a puddle jumper to an airport where Alaska Air might be, etc..

This is true. There is local airline service to Vancouver, BC from places like Port Hardy, Campbell River, and Nanaimo.

And there is scheduled floatplane service from a lot of the smaller communities although some locations farther north have summer service only.

 

[sunchaser]

thanks everyone, you've all been very helpful. Looking back, I apparently left out one very key piece of information: The only time I will have to make this journey this year is from April 26 - May 8th, exactly 13 days, thats flying down there sometime after work on April 25th. How much does that change things?

Don't count on making it to Sitka in one 13 day hop as you are wanting to do. New boat, new problems, big time currents in BC and weather will be your adversaries all the way. As suggested there are several places to leave the vessel and return at a later date.

Don't forget good working radar is a must for this journey if you want to travel safely in the frequent vision challenged weather.

 

[BandB]

I'm terribly confused. Tell me if I've missed something. But from what I recall, you're talking 13 days in April on a boat you haven't yet found from a place not yet determined. Shouldn't perhaps some other steps take place first before trying to finalize a schedule?

 

[RCook]

I'd also say 13 days would be super ambitious. It's about 1000 nm from Anacortes to Sitka, depending on where you stop each night. You'd have to travel lots of miles every day.

Weather delays could really screw you up, even if you have no equipment problems. Crossing Queen Charlotte Sound at the top of Vancouver Island, and also the Dixon Entrance from Prince Rupert to Ketchikan - either or both could easily make you hole up and wait for days at a time.

If you could have the boat brought up to Ketchikan in April, the trip from there to Sitka in 13 days could be doable and a lot of fun. Or maybe you could bring her to Ketchikan (nearly 700 nm) and leave her, then come back and bring her to Sitka over a week or so.

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

I can tell you from experience that if you have a schedule and must be there, it most likely will NOT work out for all the reasons mentioned above.

 

[ksanders]

As others have pointed out...

you can easily make it from Anacortes to Sitka in 13 days if everything works out time wise

The only real weather hold points once you leave Anacortes are Port Hardy, and Prince Rupert, then you are in Alaska and just a hop out of Sitka if you get delayed.

The safest method is to be prepared to dock your boat along the way and come back to it if you run out of time. Just remember that you need to make progress. You do not need to get the boat home in two weeks.

I have done this trip twice with new to me boats. The first time I few my tool box down and hit a box store in a cab to get stuff for the boat. I had been on the boat three times. 1. to look at it. 2. for a survey and sea trial 3. for a day at closing.

The second time was better. I spent a week on the boat in the middle of the winter to get familiarized with it. I shipped allot of spares, tools, etc... as well. Then when I landed I was going to a boat that I had spent a week on as opposed to having just been on board for a sea trial. I would highly recommend this method. A week on board and you can get pretty familiar with how to operate the boat. Not an expert, but familiar enough to get it home.

Both trips were timed for just after the 15th of April. Later in the year would be better as the weather can do nothing but improve, and the businesses along the way are still in "winter mode" in late April.

 

[robs523]

thanks everyone, my apologies for not including that in the first place. It's probably the most important part and I spaced it.

BandB, you are not missing anything. I am looking online every day, am working with a broker in Seattle that knows the situation, and have two separate 6-day breaks from work in March that I plan on spending in Seattle to prepare- sea trial, survey, etc... Living in such a remote area and working full time, I don't know of any other way to do it.

I have talked to a few people before posting here and they have all said that going 7 knots in a single screw, 13 days is doable if the weather permits. I realize that's a very huge if, and if I absolutely had to, I would leave the boat somewhere and return later if it couldn't be done. One Captain-for-hire I was talking to said he'd do it in 7 going nearly around the clock. Again if the weather permits. If I go with a Californian or something similar with twin diesels, my plan was to run it faster on the front leg of the journey. I realize it will cost more in fuel, but having the ability to do 12-14 knots if I need to is, in my rookie eyes, a little bit of a cushion that can make up for lost time. From looking online and what I've been told, it's about 825nm. There are 3 twin diesel Californians in the Seattle area in our price range for sale today. Boats like this for sale in AK are few and far between and often need to be brought across the Gulf to get here. Barging a boat from Anchorage, for example, requires going from Anchorage to Seattle then Seattle to Sitka. Barging one up directly from Seattle costs about as much as hiring a Captain but I don't get the experience of coming up with it that way.

The dates I mentioned are the only days I can get off work, unless I wait until the end of May. However I don't think my parents would like it if I wasn't here when they came to visit. And I know my wife won't be happy if I'm not here when they come to visit! Thanks again for all of your help. Maybe I'm dreaming too big, coming here is probably a great reality check. Maybe something will come available when the time is right that's already in Southeast. Maybe, maybe, maybe. That's why I'm planning for Seattle, it reduces a lot of the maybes for the boat, but then makes things more complicated for the journey

 

[sunchaser]

Kevin, the OP is speaking of a 34' or so vessel not a big fast Bayliner. I can do this trip in my sleep, and have. A self proclaimed newbie will have a struggle or two.

In my years of travel on this route the most unpredictable weather and seas I have encountered have been in Georgia , Johnstone and Clarence Straits. Cape Caution and Dixon Entrance are not usually a problem as weather and current reports are quite good and frequent for those passages - so I just wait.


Robs523, the real expert is R Cook on this issue. I would listen to his advice over any other.

 

[Nomad Willy]

Perhaps you could barge it up on Northland?
Or Alaska Marine Lines?

I don't remember seeing boats on the barges except for fishing boats.

 

[ksanders]

Tom... I have done this trip in a 34' Bayliner as well as our current boat.

Rob...you will probably not be allowed by your insurance company to depart prior to 15 April. You will need a special delivery endorsement to your cruising area to make the trip home.

Rob be very careful if you are planning on going faster than displacement speed. You'll not only be pushing your new to you boat at the edge of its performance envelope, you will be at a high angle of attack limiting visibility. This is logging country, and it's a heck of allot easier to hit a log going fast.

 

[robs523]

Thanks Kevin, the departure date would be April 26th, hopefully, or the 27th. Eric, I talked to AML (Lynden) and the cost would be about $5200, plus or minus. I don't know about Northland, but Samson comes up here I just haven't called them yet because I don't expect there to be much of a difference. Hiring a Captain would be about $4000 plus expenses- food, airline tickets back for all crew members, etc...easily pushing me to the ballpark of a barge, if not more. Thanks!

 

[BandB]

You talked to a lot of people who said fine. How many here said that? Or do our opinions not count since they don't agree with what you want to hear? Fine if you have experience, have a boat that can handle 6-8' wind waves and 10-12' swells with no issue, have a boat that you're use to and have thoroughly shaken down, have a capable and large crew so can run very long hours. Perfect conditions it's doable. But you are not talking perfect circumstances. You buy a boat that hasn't been used in ages or only inside Puget Sound. The moment you head outside toward Sitka the fuel gets churned, your filters get blocked repeatedly. Just so many things.

Perhaps you do it in 13 days but even so it's not likely to be pleasant. My recommendation is you check it out locally, you go as far as is easy and pleasant, you dock it, you come back to it on weekends or long weekends and run it further, repeat until it's there. If everything shocks you and is perfect, you go all the way. But in all likelihood it breaks down into multiple segments. If conditions are too bad you wait. If the boat has issues needing to be fixed you wait. If your planned daily run is just too long, you wait.

If you are going to push to get it done in 13 days, then get a delivery captain who is use to making such deliveries. There's a lot of difference in captaining for regular recreation and deliveries.

Now, I'll toss out another concern. You haven't even found the boat so the odds you have one selected, purchased, surveyed, items corrected from the survey and in condition to start the trip by 4/26 are really slim unless you let the calendar dictate that too and take the first boat without adequate review, sea trial, and survey and with no negotiation.

Just a simple thing like heat because if you don't have it working properly you'll be beyond miserable. Temperature during the day perhaps 50 and at night 40 if you're lucky. It does warm some in early May from that and you may encounter unseasonably warm weather.

Guess I'm saying fine to attempt but not fine to be too committed to. Have Plan B and Plan C and Plan D.

 

[Nomad Willy]

I agree w BandB.

However getting some extra time off would be golden. But BandB is right .. taking her up north early in 13 days is something like running a barn find car across the states.

I forget what boat we're talking about. April 15 is when the fishing boats head out north but the're hard guys that know the fine art of rafting up every night and waiting weather. They know the route, the weather, their boats and everything. Even the other guys boat. Running together is the norm.

Doing it is easy (usually) w the help of GPS cart plotters, the Hemmingway cruise guide and a little good weather. By the way the weather can be almost like California or raining all the time .. no exageration. But one can make the best time if it does rain all the time if it's not storm'in too. The rain eliminates the sun that creates most of the choppy seas.

 

[sunchaser]

I have a relative who moved his 30 foot twin diesel fishing boat from Seattle to AK by barge. Very doable and convenient.

Whatever vessel you purchase will need some stuff done to it. Much better and easier to get in done in Seattle area than AK IMHO.

 

[Marin]

I don't remember seeing boats on the barges except for fishing boats.

Eric- A lot of those barges are loaded on the Duwamish Waterway not far from our studios. You're correct in that the boats being loaded tend to be fishboats or aluminum workboats. But I can recall seeing the occasional recreational cruiser, smaller Tollycrafts, Uniflites, SeaSports or Sea Dories usually.

I suspect that sending a larger cruiser north on a barge could be pretty pricey because the size, weight and need for a unique cradle would restrict the amount of other stuff they could cram onto the barge. As you well know they like to load those things to the sky.