All electric galley

[rsn48]

This is a video from the "Gone With The Wynn's" site. Short history: they first started living full time in RV's (there videos on composting toilets are still very popular). They started out small and slowly increased to a large motorhome. About 4 1/2 years ago they bought a sail cat and moved aboard, knowing basically nothing about sailing.

They are big on living off the grid which they began in their RV's. In this video they go into the metamorphosis of their galley to all electric. Near the end of their video they discuss their battery set up.

I know some of you are considering transitioning your trawler to an all electric galley, you might find value in watching this vid:

 

[FWT]

She mentioned as propane downsides that the open flame heats up the galley too much, and worse an open window blows out the propane flame.

Truth? Or is she exagerating?

Planning a new build. Inquiring minds want to know.

 

[oscar]

She mentioned as propane downsides that the open flame heats up the galley too much, and worse an open window blows out the propane flame.

Truth? Or is she exagerating?

Planning a new build. Inquiring minds want to know.

Although I don't have any independent studies to back it up, my personal experience (burning hair on hands) would agree with the fact that using propane a lot of heat escapes around a pan versus going in to it. And, now having made the change from conduction to induction I can say that the latter loses even less.

And yes especially with a low flame for simmering etc a "gust" will easily blow it out. I experience that regularly with my outdoor cooker.

 

[dirtdoc1]

I have a propane Force 10 stove/oven. I like it. It does heat up the galley but during the winter that's a plus. I can open all of the windows during the summer. I like the propane because there is no draw on my batteries, which is important to me since I run from cove to cove, staying on the hook. I would think that electric stoves like area heaters draw a lot of power. My 20lb propane tank lasts for a couple of seasons with just me and the occasional guest(s). Even at home I have a gas stove. I like cooking over flame. It's also a great way to heat up tortillas. As far as the flame getting blown out I have never had that happen. Not even on my gas BBQ.

 

[mvweebles]

The Wynns use an induction cook top and a breville smart oven.

First, I'll say I'm a cook, and I'm sticking with propane, but because of the oven. Induction is an incredible cooking system. It's efficient, fast, controllable, and does not throw excess heat.

If you're doing a new build and have never tried induction, spend $80 on an induction single hob and give it a try. You might be surprised enough to rethink your choice of cooking appliance

Peter

 

[Greg Salish Cruiser]

One tiny comment: "We have 1200 AH of lithium ion batteries. is that 12 x 899 = 10K+ of battery bank not to mention weight and space? Did I do the math wrong? Seems like that inexpensive induction cooktop may not be the whole story.

 

[Comodave]

One tiny comment: "We have 1200 AH of lithium ion batteries. is that 12 x 899 = 10K+ of battery bank not to mention weight and space? Did I do the math wrong? Seems like that inexpensive induction cooktop may not be the whole story.

Space maybe but weight, no. I have 3 LiFePO4 batteries and they weigh about the same as 1 of the 6 volt GC batteries they replaced at 23 pounds each. Also you can get them on sale frequently at Costco 2 for $1400 so they aren’t as expensive as most people think.

 

[markbarendt]

We have the same hob as the Wynn’s and it really is a pleasure to use.

I’m even looking at doing the same electric grill, we actually had one ‘pre-boat’ and it was nice, just too big for our RV.

 

[boathealer]

We have 1600Ah house bank and 1400W of solar, so yes, we've gone full electric - full size 3-door house fridge, Induction cooktop, convection oven/microwave and electric grill in the cockpit. Now even a 5-6hp electric dinghy outboard and charging the 24V thruster/windlass bank directly from the 12V house bank.

We typically have excess solar power available during the summer, so I am working on a method to automatically switch to a 12V water heater element when the batteries are fully replenished.

 

[markbarendt]

One tiny comment: "We have 1200 AH of lithium ion batteries. is that 12 x 899 = 10K+ of battery bank not to mention weight and space? Did I do the math wrong? Seems like that inexpensive induction cooktop may not be the whole story.

From the Wynn’s website.

We have four Relion 12V 300AH batteries for a total of 1200AH.

 

[OldDan1943]

I too would like to switch from electric coils to to induction cooking surface but I do not know how many amps a 3 burner induction cook top would draw. I suspect, because of the speed of induction cooking, I can get away with 2 burners, with proper timing.
NOW, the question remains..... the oven. Could I use a microwave/convention oven instead.
I have an 1800 watt inverter and can run the 1200 watt microwave on it for a little bit. I can literally watch the house voltage drop quickly. I limit my cooking time to a minute or less. Note: I have 3X4D AGM house batteries and no space to add a 4th battery. Finally 2X130watt solar panels. We all know solar just sits around and tops off the batteries, not contributing much on an active draw down.

 

[FWT]

If you're doing a new build and have never tried induction, spend $80 on an induction single hob and give it a try. You might be surprised enough to rethink your choice of cooking appliance

Peter

Excellent idea. Know if All Clad pots work with those things? I can always invest in another pan I don't need, but maybe you know?

 

[BandB]

We are all electric and wouldn't have it any other way. Induction cooktop, electric grill, electric over.

 

[boathealer]

I too would like to switch from electric coils to to induction cooking surface but I do not know how many amps a 3 burner induction cook top would draw. I suspect, because of the speed of induction cooking, I can get away with 2 burners, with proper timing.
NOW, the question remains..... the oven. Could I use a microwave/convention oven instead.
I have an 1800 watt inverter and can run the 1200 watt microwave on it for a little bit. I can literally watch the house voltage drop quickly. I limit my cooking time to a minute or less. Note: I have 3X4D AGM house batteries and no space to add a 4th battery.

Hi Dan,

We currently have only a 2- burner induction cooktop for just that reason - reducing the possible peak load on the inverter. We don't miss having 3-burners.

On our last boat, Drifter, an AT34, we added another 4D battery (for a stern thruster) by moving the genset start battery to the engine room - see below.
.
.

 

[Marco Flamingo]

I would like to know the real world numbers on that Breville oven. If a chicken roasts for an hour and 15 minutes, what is the total amp hour draw from the battery bank (also taking into account the use of an inverter). Is the oven element working 20% of the time or 50%?

Using a propane stove/oven where I am is a pain because of the moisture. The heat put off by a propane stove isn't a problem when it is 40F outside (only about 35-40% of the heat actually goes to the pot, assuming no wind). But when under way and all the windows, including the windshield, suddenly fog up and your visibility is limited to a little clearing from a fan, that's a pain. And my stove is older so if (actually, when) a burner blows out it isn't until I smell it that it gets turned off.

I noticed that she mentioned soot on the bottom of a pan when trying to use butane. That can actually happen with propane as well. It is an indication that the stove is producing CO. Plenty of people get excited when they hear that propane has safety issues. The stats that I found said that 20% of propane deaths are caused by CO. Yes, CO deaths are less frequent than explosions, but dead is dead. A pot with soot on the bottom is a bad thing.

 

[rslifkin]

I've got an all electric galley, but my boat was built that way. Stove is a 3 burner coil electric (1100w per burner). I'd like to swap the microwave for a convection one at some point as we don't have an oven at all.

I don't have the stove or microwave on the inverter, although I might move the microwave onto the inverter panel at some point. Currently, if away from shore power, I just plan to run the generator when I need the stove. Not a big deal, as I warm up hot water at the same time and I'll need to do that at some point.

I just can't fit enough solar to do all of my cooking on solar power, so no reason to put high discharge loads on my 400ah house bank to try and then have to make up power with the generator later. I'll happily use the toaster or coffee maker on inverter power though.

 

[OldDan1943]

Hi Dan,

We currently have only a 2- burner induction cooktop for just that reason - reducing the possible peak load on the inverter. We don't miss having 3-burners.

On our last boat, Drifter, an AT34, we added another 4D battery (for a stern thruster) by moving the genset start battery to the engine room - see below.
.
.

Both my thrusters are on the 3X4D house batteries. I had the main engine stop while docking when my bow thruster reduced the start batteries below 10.Xvts. Next time I am having trouble, I will put all batteries on line SMILE
Yes, I did replace all 4 batteries.
The Generator start battery was relocated to the ER too and totally independent of the boat's charging system.
The only things on my inverter are either the microwave OR the galley outlets.

 

[rsn48]

I would like to know the real world numbers on that Breville oven. If a chicken roasts for an hour and 15 minutes, what is the total amp hour draw from the battery bank (also taking into account the use of an inverter). Is the oven element working 20% of the time or 50%?

I have a dual set up. At anchor, Force 10, microwave and BBQ. At the marina, an induction plate, microwave and convection oven. I have a smaller boat so I get smaller appliances. By refit guy suggested the Breville smart convection oven, but I went cheap for a couple of reasons. One, you don't need a smart oven. My wife and I got into convection cooking literally 35 years ago when they weren't a common household item. You just need to know a couple of times and heating temps, that's it. So for a whole chicken at 350 in a convection, around one hour.

Secondly, I do plan to use it sometimes on the hook. So cheap convection ovens have less wattage, mine has 1100 watts. Also the fan is on full time but the heating elements are cycling on and off. I have 700 amps with 6 firefly batteries, 3 one hundred watts of solar and a 210 Efoy fuel cell to charge the batteries.

The Wynn's are sailing in tropical locations, often hot and muggy so I can see why they are sensitive to heat from a stove. They also have air conditioning they will run for a couple of hours a day. They have no generator. Their air conditioner has a soft start system.

I have a two burner Force 10 and I find a number of people don't like the oven. The oven area is so small that when you open the door there is a major loss of heat. Secondly some feel the ovens are too slow to heat up. Two tricks here. I bought four small rectangular pizza stones, two I put on the metal shelf, these are used to hold more heat in when the door is opened. I have another two (four in a box) that I will put on the wire wrack for the same reason, heat retention and more even heat.

I and others have found if you heat up the oven in the broiler mode then switch over to regular oven heating, the oven heats up much faster.

 

[ksanders]

Our boat has a all electric galley and I love it!

We have a three burner electric stove with a oven that I use every few days.

Plus a microwave, and the "little stuff" like toaster, crock pot, etc...

 

[catalinajack]

Exactly what we use, an induction cooktop and a Breville smart oven. I am a really good cook. I hate conduction elements but induction is really close to gas cooking, so close that the downsides to propane (less efficient, flame blow-outs, excess heat, condensation in colder weather) are just too much for me. And never mind the hassle of dragging tanks off the boat and finding a filling station and a marina with a courtesy car to get there.

When we bought our boat it came with a 30yo electric Princess with burners that took forever to cook anything. That unit went into the dumpster. We considered propane because gas is so much better than any pre-induction electric units. At the time, induction was just beginning to come to market. We purchased and used a portable, two-burner cooktop and used it for almost three years before installing a drop-in unit. I still prefer gas for cooking but only in a dirt house. For a boat, induction is so close to gas in cooking utility that propane would never be my first choice.

As to the oven, the Breville does anything a propane boat oven can do, probably better, including prime ribs, turkey breasts, whole chickens, cookies, muffins, pies, broiling steaks, and home-made pizza. The only downside to electric is the need to run the generator to cook while away from shore power which is not a big deal.

If I ever were to buy another boat, if it came equipped with propane, that would be fine but I would never convert it to propane. I would, however, convert to induction if it were electric.

The Wynns use an induction cook top and a breville smart oven.

First, I'll say I'm a cook, and I'm sticking with propane, but because of the oven. Induction is an incredible cooking system. It's efficient, fast, controllable, and does not throw excess heat.

If you're doing a new build and have never tried induction, spend $80 on an induction single hob and give it a try. You might be surprised enough to rethink your choice of cooking appliance

Peter

 

[catalinajack]

OldDan, we installed a two-burner induction cooktop. I do a LOT of fancy cooking. I rarely have need of three burners. Our cooktop is an 1,800 watt unit. One burner is 1,800, the other 1,300 when each is used alone. Boils water really fast, much faster than propane. When used together, total draw is automatically limited to 1,800 but both still have plenty of juice to cook anything. If you get a three-burner model, the three will be further limited. On the rare occasions that I need a third burner, I use a portable butane hob.

I too would like to switch from electric coils to to induction cooking surface but I do not know how many amps a 3 burner induction cook top would draw. I suspect, because of the speed of induction cooking, I can get away with 2 burners, with proper timing.
NOW, the question remains..... the oven. Could I use a microwave/convention oven instead.
I have an 1800 watt inverter and can run the 1200 watt microwave on it for a little bit. I can literally watch the house voltage drop quickly. I limit my cooking time to a minute or less. Note: I have 3X4D AGM house batteries and no space to add a 4th battery. Finally 2X130watt solar panels. We all know solar just sits around and tops off the batteries, not contributing much on an active draw down.

 

[catalinajack]

The Breville draws 1,800 watts or 15 amps (1,800 watts/120 volts) AC. Rule of thumb is*approximately one (1) amp of DC inverter input for each 10 watts of AC output. So, at full power draw, the Breville consumes 180 amphours. As to what percentage the oven element is working at a particular set temp, I really don't think you will find your answer unless you contact the manufacturer.

I would like to know the real world numbers on that Breville oven. If a chicken roasts for an hour and 15 minutes, what is the total amp hour draw from the battery bank (also taking into account the use of an inverter). Is the oven element working 20% of the time or 50%?

Using a propane stove/oven where I am is a pain because of the moisture. The heat put off by a propane stove isn't a problem when it is 40F outside (only about 35-40% of the heat actually goes to the pot, assuming no wind). But when under way and all the windows, including the windshield, suddenly fog up and your visibility is limited to a little clearing from a fan, that's a pain. And my stove is older so if (actually, when) a burner blows out it isn't until I smell it that it gets turned off.

I noticed that she mentioned soot on the bottom of a pan when trying to use butane. That can actually happen with propane as well. It is an indication that the stove is producing CO. Plenty of people get excited when they hear that propane has safety issues. The stats that I found said that 20% of propane deaths are caused by CO. Yes, CO deaths are less frequent than explosions, but dead is dead. A pot with soot on the bottom is a bad thing.

 

[FF]

She mentioned as propane downsides that the open flame heats up the galley too much, and worse an open window blows out the propane flame.




The correct burner for a propane stove starts at high and is turned down to obtain a lesser heat. It will have an adjustment to set how low the flame at low setting will be.


Exchange propane tanks are a bit more per fill, but are found almost everywhere, no waiting. Grandmothers folding cart will carry propane with the groceries and cases of beer.

 

[OldDan1943]

I currently have a Force 10 3 burner stove with oven.
Which brand of drop in induction stove top do you recommend?
Which induction/microwave oven do you recommend?

I just might be able to recapture some space in the galley area. Wouldn't that be wonderful.

 

[Greg Salish Cruiser]

I currently have a Force 10 3 burner stove with oven.
Which brand of drop in induction stove top do you recommend?
Which induction/microwave oven do you recommend?

I just might be able to recapture some space in the galley area. Wouldn't that be wonderful.

I am following this pretty closely - There is a good chance that I will be finding an east coast boat (electric galley & reverse cycle air conditioning and heat) and trying to turn her back into a west coast boat. (Usually propane cooking and diesel heat). I see massive benefits in electric only - it is just a matter of pulling it off without a genset. In fact, I am eyeballing a NT with a blown genset. Replacing the weight and the $$$ with Lithium Ion batteries would sure be easier!

 

[ScottC]

I am following this pretty closely - There is a good chance that I will be finding an east coast boat (electric galley & reverse cycle air conditioning and heat) and trying to turn her back into a west coast boat. (Usually propane cooking and diesel heat). I see massive benefits in electric only - it is just a matter of pulling it off without a genset. In fact, I am eyeballing a NT with a blown genset. Replacing the weight and the $$$ with Lithium Ion batteries would sure be easier!

Ummm...you're going to need a way to charge the Lithium Ion batteries. A couple of solar panels alone won't cut it. So, you might still be in need of a generator. Running one of your engines and using the alternator to charge might also be an option, but wouldn't that be less attractive and versatile than a generator? I guess a big determining factor would be how much time you spend at the dock, plugged in vs. running or on the hook and wanting to cook.

 

[OldDan1943]

I am following this pretty closely - There is a good chance that I will be finding an east coast boat (electric galley & reverse cycle air conditioning and heat) and trying to turn her back into a west coast boat. (Usually propane cooking and diesel heat). I see massive benefits in electric only - it is just a matter of pulling it off without a genset. In fact, I am eyeballing a NT with a blown genset. Replacing the weight and the $$$ with Lithium Ion batteries would sure be easier!

You have to figure out how to recharge your batteries. I guess you would have to greatly increasing you alternator and battery charger (in port use). Might want to check out a fuel cell too, to charge your batteries.

 

[Greg Salish Cruiser]

Ummm...you're going to need a way to charge the Lithium Ion batteries. A couple of solar panels alone won't cut it. So, you might still be in need of a generator. Running one of your engines and using the alternator to charge might also be an option, but wouldn't that be less attractive and versatile than a generator? I guess a big determining factor would be how much time you spend at the dock, plugged in vs. running or on the hook and wanting to cook.

We are switching from "sailing to steam" to quote Jimmy Buffet, so our use patterns may change. We have traditionally anchored out until we smell bad and then spent the night at a marina. Cruising around would charge our 4 little golf cart batteries, but our electrical use was quite low.

I came to the conclusion a while ago that "all electric" probably was not a good choice for us... yet. I want it to be! I drive an electric car, and see the benefit of getting rid of one of the forms of explosive dinosaur juice.

Probably not there quite yet, but I am watching the battery technology with great interest, it is coming for sure!

Thanks!

 

[Greg Salish Cruiser]

You have to figure out how to recharge your batteries. I guess you would have to greatly increasing you alternator and battery charger (in port use). Might want to check out a fuel cell too, to charge your batteries.

Frantic googling ensues.. May be a great solution! Teach me sensei!

Here is the dealy-o: Nice boat, discounted about 15K for a blown genset. First look: I don't want a genset anyway! I'll convert it to propane cooking and hydronic heating. That is how we like it in the rainy and cold PNW. We don't air condition things in seattle as much. We are too busy hugging trees. Puts pencil to paper... Hmmm, about 15K for that conversion too.

I would love to find a middle path!

 

[rslifkin]

At this point, the battery side of all electric cooking, etc. is easy enough. The challenge is producing enough power to keep up with usage. If you're moving around frequently, alternator + solar may be enough. And depending on your boat, you may be able to fit enough solar (and maybe a wind gen or 2) to keep up. But for a lot of boats, there just isn't enough physical space for that much solar.



On my boat, for example, I'll max out between 800 - 900 watts of solar. That's all I can fit on the cabin top and still leave a little space to walk up to the windshields for cleaning, etc. If I replace the bimini with a hard top, I could fit more up there, but I'd never manage 2kw+ on this boat. So it makes more sense to cover 90% of my needs with solar and use the generator for the big loads when I don't have shore power. Unless I'm going to pull the generator out of the boat, it needs some exercise here and there anyway.