American Tug vs Helmsman

[Helmsman]

Hip, Goid summary on the NT. Thanks! They are super nice boats. Very well built, in my opinion.

 

[Hippocampus]

As are helmsman. You have a wonderful boat. Just like shoes no one size or style fits all.

 

[Helmsman]

The wider salon versus walk around is a trade off. We have had zero issues backing in, as long as we know the width of the slip. We just drop the fenders and sight down the starboard side by looking out the helm SB door. The boat is pretty stable in its movements with a slight starboard turn in reverse

 

[KMAL]

AT - well built boat. Light weight and meant to reach higher speeds (teens). Really nice wood work and interiors, high quality throughout, reputable components. Helmsman - well built boat, heavy, very nice interiors, high quality throughout, reputable components. NT - good quality, OK interior finishing with cheaper selections in places, light weight boat, reputable components. AT & Helmsman both have rabid fans in their respective ownership communities who speak to excellent support from the two "builders". NT with mixed reviews around its distribution/sales system and factory support over the last few years. AT & NT are true semi displacement hulls which can get up and go. The Helmsman boats tend more toward displacement and would require huge power and fuel to reach teens in speed - you don't buy one to go fast. For me - depending on use case - I would consider both the AT and Helmsman boats. I would not consider the NT (40 and 44) for a couple of reasons: #1 I cannot stand in the cockpit under the hard cover without hitting my head at the lowest points - the coach house also feels claustrophobic relative to the AT (395 and 435) and Helmsman's (38 and 43); #2 build quality feels cheaper than for both AT and Helmsman - specifically lower quality materials for some finishing selections (more vinyl - less wood) and wood work that looks rich from a distance but does not meet my standards upon close inspection - this includes poorly aligned joinery and finishing (interior sanding and varnishing) that falls one notch short; #3 having to work with a third party broker/sales network rather than ownership/factory.

 

[Hippocampus]

Seems very different takes on NT from different posters. Would note NTs tend to be slightly narrower than ATs and lighter then Helmsman. So tend to be more efficient. Other thing to consider is usable storage. Over time a cruising boat collects a lot of stuff.
There’s a very strong NT owners group. To date even though I’m the third owner factory support has been excellent. Agree to disagree with Kmal. I’ve dealt with Wilde although I didn’t buy my boat from them. They are the local dealer. They’ve been amazingly responsive as well. I wanted to take out the carpet and replace it with flooring as carpet collects sand and allergens. They hooked me up with which product the factory now uses (Amtico) and a local supplier and an installer. Did that although there was not a dime in it for them.n
I’m 6’ and have significant space over my head everywhere. Quite a bit everywhere especially the forward stateroom.
If looking at Helmsman would look at other full displacement boats with EU-A in similar sizes. Think if you’re going to only operate at displacement speeds would want the expanded weather window and efficiency a full displacement boat offers.

 

[KMAL]

Seems very different takes on NT from different posters. Would note NTs tend to be slightly narrower than ATs and lighter then Helmsman. So tend to be more efficient. Other thing to consider is usable storage. Over time a cruising boat collects a lot of stuff.
There’s a very strong NT owners group. To date even though I’m the third owner factory support has been excellent. Agree to disagree with Kmal. I’ve dealt with Wilde although I didn’t buy my boat from them. They are the local dealer. They’ve been amazingly responsive as well. I wanted to take out the carpet and replace it with flooring as carpet collects sand and allergens. They hooked me up with which product the factory now uses (Amtico) and a local supplier and an installer. Did that although there was not a dime in it for them.

I have heard Wild is very good.

 

[huruta]

Also respectfully disagree with Kmal re NT. We have a 2006 32 and have been very impressed with the quality. The trade off of a bit narrower beam is fuel efficiency. All about trade offs. Worth looking at all 3 brands and making up your mind. I’ve thought the helmsman and ATs we’ve seen have been lovely.

 

[KMAL]

I have walked several pre 2010 NT 32’s - they are a grail boat to be admired in design, quality, and execution. Much like the AT 34’s - well thought out, very solid, high quality, good componentry. I simply can’t say the same about the new (2024) 40 and 44 models (unfortunately). They do strike me as well thought out - but I do watch my head in both at a mere 6’4”, they do have good components. I hear from more than one shipwright, less well built - but not sure what this may mean specifically. The new boats fall short on quality finishing - less than top rate woodwork and lots of vinyl surfaces. Wood Vs vinyl, carpet etc are a matter of choice - but less than high quality woodwork speaks to me. The new boats strike me as bayliner/sea rays with NT genes. I only surmise that things may have changed with the sale of the company in 2012….? But I really don’t know other than these two models (40/44) fell short of what I was hoping they would be. In fact, before walking them, I really thought the 44 would be our next boat. This was based on the layout and walk throughs on two NT 42's (and generally the same boat as the 44), both early 2000's. They impressed me as well built ships that filled a clear niche right below a KK (Coastal V Bluewater). The new models seem further distanced by KK, AT & Helmsman. But, I do believe they are a solid value for the right buyer in today’s market place. If you are looking for a solid coastal “trawler” that has some get up and go, quality components, and well executed layouts - NT should absolutely be a boat to check out. I was also able to connect with several owners of late model NT's - all delighted with their purchase for sure. But two with strong comments around warranty work - specifically that NT washed their hands of the boats post delivery and referred the new owners directly to the parties providing component warranties. This as opposed to facilitating discovery and helping with parties whom NT should have strong relationships that could be leveraged for their customers - this was a big red flag for me. I note that this could be a challenge resulting from the dealer network model that NT has adopted, however, the comments were specific to factory support. The AT and Helmsman owners I have spoken with have gone out of their way to praise the support experiences they have had with their builder/importer. I don't mean to be critical - boats can be special to people as they are to me - but I would recommend that people having a boat built today and deciding between these and other alternatives, be as fully informed as they can be prior to making a decision and it is in this spirit that I offer my views and experience on the question posted.

 

[Moonfish]

One element that hasn't necessarily been overlooked but has been alluded to in various comments, is that the owner satisfaction for both boat builders is very high. Specifically, I'm referring to the use case scenario (not customer service, which by all accounts is also very good). The manner in which owners use their boats, which is for many of us the bottom line. So either way you go, you will likely be very satisfied.

 

[sean9c]

Just observations from a bystander. It seems like NT has not regained the strength they had pre recession. Before then they were everywhere and commanding big money. They seem sort of lost after. AT always seemed to have really good build quality and is the the go to, being wider and faster than a NT, if that's what you wanted. Though I do remember looking at the engine space on a AT34 and going uh.
Didn't AT sell in the last few years? Who to?

 

[chanprr]

Just observations from a bystander. It seems like NT has not regained the strength they had pre recession. Before then they were everywhere and commanding big money. They seem sort of lost after. AT always seemed to have really good build quality and is the the go to, being wider and faster than a NT, if that's what you wanted. Though I do remember looking at the engine space on a AT34 and going uh.
Didn't AT sell in the last few years? Who to?

Kady-Krogen, last May.

 

[KMAL]

Just observations from a bystander. It seems like NT has not regained the strength they had pre recession. Before then they were everywhere and commanding big money. They seem sort of lost after. AT always seemed to have really good build quality and is the the go to, being wider and faster than a NT, if that's what you wanted. Though I do remember looking at the engine space on a AT34 and going uh.
Didn't AT sell in the last few years? Who to?

AT did sell to Kady Kroger - seems a nice fit - Coastal get up and go trawler of high quality and Coatal/Blue water heavy displacement long range trawler of high build quality.

 

[KMAL]

AT did sell to Kady Kroger - seems a nice fit - Coastal get up and go trawler of high quality and Coatal/Blue water heavy displacement long range trawler of high build quality.

Krogen….

 

[sjisailor]

FWIW so far the Kadey Krogen acquisition appears to have been good at AT. They are adding production capacity but have the same folks in charge and still built in the same place in La Conner, Washington. They say their main plan is to expand in place there.

If I recall, part of the thinking in the merger -- from customers' speculation and maybe even a few facts -- was that a US production facility could help buffer the China uncertainty many manufacturers face in the long term. Also the cyclical nature of manufacture staffing might be evened out during downturns with the ability to work on KK boats on the West Coast.

 

[KMAL]

Have always viewed KK as one of the top builders in the US and globally. Your comments make a lot of sense. I think AT aligns nicely with KK - in product quality and finish. Makes sense that west coast production would be important to KK. Having walked the AT factory post acquisition by KK, I must say that one can’t help but to walk away knowing you would be in good hands with AT and KK.

 

[Hippocampus]

Have an older NT so don’t have intimate knowledge of the 40\44 as apparently you do. Do know reviews rave about them all. Do know the factory and dealer network are the same. Do know in very recent times experience with both has been excellent.
Do know having chatted with similar sized AT doing the same transits at same speeds the NT is likely a bit more efficient. Had dinner with two other couples at Deltaville. We all stopped there coming back from down south via the ICW. We didn’t compare exact speeds but did see each other each morning and evening. So think it safe to say days work was the same. I was carrying extra weight due to a SeaKeeper. For that run a KK39 was most efficient. I was second NT42 the AT 395 third. Not scientific so maybe can’t generalize but have also heard the same elsewhere. We also discussed going into the waves. Again not a totally fair comparison as I have the SeaKeeper. However I rarely use it and it only effects roll not heave nor pitch. Here again I think the NT does a bit better having a slightly finer entry and half angle. We talked mostly about a very crude measurement. Which days drinks only were put down in the cup holders when there were brief transits across open water. Not scientific by any means. Even with the slap been very impressed how well the NT does in open water. Have only had one brief ride ( a full day) in a H in open water. Here I think weight counts and she did well. But for that kind of stuff no SD hull will compare to a good FD hull like a KK or Nordhavn. Always liked the Nordies better. No aluminum tanks and better outfitting for passage.

 

[KMAL]

Have an older NT so don’t have intimate knowledge of the 40\44 as apparently you do. Do know reviews rave about them all. Do know the factory and dealer network are the same. Do know in very recent times experience with both has been excellent.
Do know having chatted with similar sized AT doing the same transits at same speeds the NT is likely a bit more efficient. Had dinner with two other couples at Deltaville. We all stopped there coming back from down south via the ICW. We didn’t compare exact speeds but did see each other each morning and evening. So think it safe to say days work was the same. I was carrying extra weight due to a SeaKeeper. For that run a KK39 was most efficient. I was second NT42 the AT 395 third. Not scientific so maybe can’t generalize but have also heard the same elsewhere. We also discussed going into the waves. Again not a totally fair comparison as I have the SeaKeeper. However I rarely use it and it only effects roll not heave nor pitch. Here again I think the NT does a bit better having a slightly finer entry and half angle. We talked mostly about a very crude measurement. Which days drinks only were put down in the cup holders when there were brief transits across open water. Not scientific by any means. Even with the slap been very impressed how well the NT does in open water. Have only had one brief ride ( a full day) in a H in open water. Here I think weight counts and she did well. But for that kind of stuff no SD hull will compare to a good FD hull like a KK or Nordhavn. Always liked the Nordies better. No aluminum tanks and better outfitting for passage.

Fantastic H - it is indeed my own experience with the older boats and that of the many fans of the brand that pulled me (with no kicking or screaming) to the new 44's - not to mention the layout, which was perfect for our needs. Agree on the Norhaven and KK boats - they are stunning and built to take almost anything one can dish up - nothing like having a bunch of lead ballast built into hull along with the best of the best in equipment. My wife and I would have been KK buyers - but we own our slip (covered) and we were not prepared to lower the very substantial mast on the KK 44 every time we went out. And, as my wife had to point out on a couple of accessions - she would not cross any ocean with me - too much boat. But oooof - the stuff of dreams. Speaking of, would love to cruise the ICW some day and find a raft of you guys for some fun.

 

[Shrew]

I think my question is down to what is the objective of KK?

Did they buy Atlantic Tug to expand their boat line, or for the AT plant and its location?? Is this address import costs? Retaining US market share? If KK wanted to build boats in the mid 30 -40 ft class, they could without buying AT. They used to, and worked those boat out of their line-up.

 

[KMAL]

I think my question is down to what is the objective of KK?

Did they buy Atlantic Tug to expand their boat line, or for the AT plant and its location?? Is this address import costs? Retaining US market share? If KK wanted to build boats in the mid 30 -40 ft class, they could without buying AT. They used to, and worked those boat out of their line-up.

This is KK’s third acquisition that I am aware of. From my conversations with various AT people - many of the factors you mention were in play: additional US based manufacturing capacity, market share, line/offering expansion, etc. I will note that the offerings from both the Summit and AT acquisitions expand the types of hulls/boats - full displacement, semi-displacement, and high speed. All of their (KK’s) offerings have very strong legacy reputations and followings. The KK marketing materials (I forget the name of their “magazine”), speak to their objectives as well.