Anchor-rope -with chain

[Capn Chuck]

We have used C-Link chain connectors for decades and never had one fail, even in 12 hurricanes. As with all things anchoring, buy quality. Chuck

 

[Keith]

I usually put a length of chain equal to the length of my boat.

 

[Arctic Traveller]

Capn Chuck wrote:

We have used C-Link chain connectors for decades and never had one fail, even in 12 hurricanes. As with all things anchoring, buy quality. Chuck

Hi Chuck, I too used one of the two piece connecting links to add more chain on a previous boat, but nowhere was I able to find a SWL rating for them, and I always worried that the link was the weakest part of the assembly. Once while working at a shipyard, I took a rigging class, and the instructor told us never to use any connecting devices (hooks, shackels, etc) that were not rated at least as strong as what they connected to. Then again finding the rating for the chain I currently have hasn't been easy either, so perhaps I should stop worrying and just add another 100 ft. That will open up a lot more options here in the land of deep water anchorages.

Arctic Traveller
Trawler training and yacht charters at www.arctictraveller.com

 

[Capn Chuck]

AC, At one point we were able to find the specs on the C-Link and if of good quality was rated 90% of the chain. Your only other option would be to have a link welded to connect the chain but you would need to find someone experienced at this and the galvanizing would be a problem. We survived 15 named storms on the anchor chain without issues so you can take from that what you might. Chuck

 

[Nomad Willy]

On one of these threads I promised to try anchoring w no chain at all. On my little trip I reported on in Voyagers ect I tried it. I first tried my Forfjord. I was in a very small cove probably no more than 3 - 400' across at high tide w a 0 tide predicted for the night** ..* along w "light winds". It was 48' deep near the center and I had a new piece of 3 strand nylon 100' long. I deployed the Forjord, waited for the line to sink and backed down. As expected I could feel the anchor bouncing along the bottom. I draged it untill I ran out of room** ..* got no signifigant pull on the line. I was going to try my XYZ anchor next but the last time I did it just bounced along so I deployed my Danforth. The Danforth hooked up almost immediately. I'd have bet a big chunck of change it would'nt work** .. but it did. How could it set on such short scope? The only logical answer is that I snagged something. Well it was getting dark and we were hooked up so we spent the night. In the morning we pulled up to vertical* over the anchor and it pulled out normally** ..* by hand w some effort applied. I expected to anchor without chain but not at 2-1 scope. The only other thing I can add is that the anchor was a genuine Danforth w forged shank. Thats two experiences where the Danforth came through and others failed. The Danforth was such old technology I hadn't planned to even use them (I have three). I think I'll put the 100' of three strand on the end of my 350' of Brait and use the Danforths untill they are gone** .. or whatever.

Eric Henning

 

[FF]

It was 48' deep near the center and I had a new piece of 3 strand nylon 100' long.

3-1 scope is a real test for most anchors, rode rider might have helped .

 

[Capn Chuck]

Anchoring without any chain is a bad idea for many reasons. Deducing that because an anchor set once or even a couple of times makes this OK, is setting yourself up for disaster. Once a hard blow comes up unexpectedly, especially in the middle of the night, the potential to loose the boat is real and I could not understand any skipper that would even consider skimping on anchor or rode. This is a primary piece of safety equipment and makes as much sense as using plastic gate valves as thru-hulls. What purpose would this really serve?

 

[FF]

"Anchoring without any chain is a bad idea for many reasons."

Danforth advised to use line from WWII to the mid 70's.

Of course by the mid 70's folks were not using a pound of anchor per foot of boat LOA.

Which might have been the cause for the change.

 

[Codger2]

Here in Southern Cal, I seldom anchor so you can imagine my surprise when I saw the ugliest rust stain on my beautiful blue hull, below the anchor locker drain. I pulled out 238' of Chinese 5/16" non-galvanized chain and could not believe the rust. That chain would be almost useless if I had ever needed it.* When I do get a chance to anchor, it's always in 20-30' feet of water with no coral or rocky bottom. I replaced the Chinese chain with 20' of 5/16 BBB spliced to 200' of 9/16 Mega Plait and a 44# Claw. (I can't believe how nice and soft this Mega Plait is and how well it coils in the locker.)

I've tried the Rust Remover from West Marine but it won't budge the rust stain. My hull is LP paint. Other than compounding or sanding and repainting does anyone have any suggestions for the stain removal?



-- Edited by SeaHorse II on Thursday 15th of October 2009 09:06:20 AM

 

[Capn Chuck]

Seahorse, Try a product called Rustaid, but don't leave it on the paint too long. We have used it on Awlgrip with no ill affects. Do an extremely thorough rinse but the rust should disappear immediately. Don't scrub, just spray or wipe it on wait a moment, you should see the rust stain fade, and rinse.

 

[Codger2]

Capn Chuck:* Thanks for the info....I'll try and find some and try it within the next few days. BTW, I read your blog on your last cruise and really enjoyed it.

Walt

 

[Keith]

FSR gel will work great. It's oxalic acid in a gel form.

Cheaper solutions are some of the toilet bowl cleaners like sno-bowl. Pick a gel form that will stick on the hull. Also useful for removing that brown "ICW moustache".

 

[Marin]

We've used those Mr Clean Magic Erasers for stains of various kinds, and they do a terrific job on things like the "brown moustache" Keith mentions, black heel scuffs from the wrong kind of shoes, and so on. However we have a gel-coat outer surface. The Magic Eraser does have a mild abrasive and it will remove wax. So we have to re-wax where we've used it.

So I don't know what it would do to gloss paint. Do you wax the paint on your hull or let the paint itself provide the shine? I suspect the Eraser would remove the rust stain unless it's gotten down into the "pores" in the paint, but I would want to try it on a similar painted surface that didn't matter first before trying it on your hull. But the Eraser is a very effective stain and mark remover, much more so than I would have expected.

 

[Nomad Willy]

Chuck,
What I did on my post was an experiment** ..* an ongoing experiment. Your'e right it was a bit reckless * .. as in 1% reckless or less. The weather was really calm** ..* look at the pics and we were in a cove that was really sheltered from the wind. Marin and others have said smart people use all chain. Well I know that's not necessary but I would like to get a little closer to the truth** .. what really is necessary. I've already done something I did'nt think was possible and I'm sure there's more to learn. Perhaps I've set myself up as a mythbuster but once a student always a student.

Eric Henning

 

[Capn Chuck]

We have used all chain for many years and with the trawler decided to go with a little less. Our current set up is 50 feet of chain and 200 feet of rode. For the trip from SC to the Chesapeake this work very well and part of it I believe was due to the new Manson anchor. Chuck

 

[Nomad Willy]

Chuck,

Is the Manson anchor the one in the pics that looks like a Rocna but has a reversing slot to pull the anchor out backwards? I would think if you loose your'e set due to a reversal of wind, current or both the anchor would pull out. But does it reset itself? If an anchor resets itself why bother setting it in the first place? I'd like to hear positive feedback on this as we have lots of logging debri in our anchorages.
I finnally surfed your web sites. Wonderful. I can hardly wait to have time to spend time there. Looks like great stuff Chuck. It even makes me feel like I'd like to be there. Here in Alaska I don't often have the desire to be anyplace else.

Eric Henning

 

[Capn Chuck]

The Manson has a slot AND a fixed attachment point so depending on conditions you can use either. The biggest plus for the anchor is the ability to reset in reversing winds or currents. Sorry your choices of cruising grounds are limited, but hope you like the sight. Chuck

 

[Per]

"I've boated on a couple of occasions with friends who have combination rodes.* A couple are sailboaters, one is a powerboater.* And when the wind comes up some, their rode--- out at least to a 7 to 1 ratio--- is more or less straight out.* Which means it's starting to lift that few feet of chain attached to the anchor and raising the angle of pull.* At the same time in the same place in the same wind, our all-chain is angled slightly forward, with a 5 to 1 scope."

The angle of the anchor rode is meaningless , the angle of the anchor SHANK is half the key, the other half of the puzzle is SHOCK LOADING , not constant pull.

When it starts to blow there is ZERO stretch in chain , sure its not light to lift off the bottom , but it is metal that doesn't stretch much.

So the shock loading can get really high after the chain is bar tight.

Nylon has great shock absorbing ability , as long as it was selected properly.

Too thin and 100% if the stretch may be loaded , making it as poor as cable or chain..

Too thick and the loads will be too low to get the line to stretch 10%-15% that eases the loads when the gusts blow the bow sideways.

The "ideal" is 1/2 Chain 1/2 rope , but that usually requires far heavier chain than normally found in cruisers.

On our boat most folks would use 3/8 chain . which in most grades BBB? Hi Test ? is pretty weak.

WE* prefer 5 ft of 7/16* or 1/2 in Hi Test and all nylon, the heavier chain* better matches the strength of the 5/8 or 3/4 nylon , the choices.

5ft does lays on deck and works thru the chain stopper .

Our Hyd windlass will only accept wimpy 3/8 chain* which is used in the Bahamas , mostly protected anchorages

"Different ships , different long splices"

But we don't get out of bed in just a thunderstorm.

FF

(i am revisiting anchoring so bear with me for pulling up these older posts but since i am finding really valuable information...)

how many anchors do you need?
main anchor is a 35lbs CQR with 300ft of 5/16 chain.
but also have a couple "spare" anchors keeping in storage.

so the question goes..
Do you really need "spare" anchors and if so how many?

 

[Marin]

I think it's a good idea to carry a couple of different anchors. We use a rollbar anchor (Rocna) for our main, all-purpose anchor on 200' of all-chain rode. This anchor has proven excellent in all the bottoms we have used it in so far.

We also use a stern anchor on occasion, particularly in narrow bays where the waves always come from one direction no matter which way the wind blows. So a stern anchor keeps the boat from yawing around with the wind and getting off at an angle to the waves which introduces an uncomfortable rolling motion on top of the pitching.

For a stern anchor we wanted something sized large enough to be the main anchor for the boat if necessary but light enough to carry out in the dinghy and deploy. So we got a Fortress sized to be the main anchor for the boat. But it weighs less than 20 pounds.

We carry it in a mount on the swimstep and have it on a combination rode, also sized to be the main rode for the boat, consisting of 30 feet of chain and 200' (I think) of nylon. The rode is carried in a milk crate on the aft deck so we can carry it forward to deploy from the bow if need be.

The combination of the Rocna and Fortress has worked out extremely well for the kind of boating we do in the areas we do it in. Someone working pretty exclusively in mud like SFO Bay might want a Danforth as their main anchor and a similar design--- Fortress for example--- for their stern anchor or spare anchor. In mud and sand the Danforth-type is always at or near the top of the chart in anchoring tests when it comes to holding power.

Long range cruisers, particuarly those whose chances of encountering rough weather in an anchorage usually carry a storm anchor. This is basically a much larger anchor than the boat would normally require. It is usually kept stowed out of the way unless it's needed.

But for coastal cruising I think it is sufficient to carry a good main anchor of a type, size, and weight that has proven to be ideal for the kinds of bottoms you're going to encounter, and a spare anchor that can serve as a stern anchor or as a substitute for the main anchor.

Whether the spare/stern anchor is the same type as the main anchor or not will depend on how and where you're going to carry it and what the variety of bottoms are in your boating area. The Fortress is a very easy anchor to stow in a lazarette, on a swim step, in the dingy, etc. A Rocna or Bruce or CQR, etc. isn't unless you have a large enough space to accomodate it.

If you are exploring anchoring techniques I strongly recommend Earl Hinz's book "The Complete Book of Anchoring and Mooring" if you do not already have it It is an excellent reference and covers just about anything anyone would want or need to know about the subject.

 

[Per]

We carry it in a mount on the swimstep and have it on a combination rode, also sized to be the main rode for the boat, consisting of 30 feet of chain and 200' (I think) of nylon. The rode is carried in a milk crate on the aft deck so we can carry it forward to deploy from the bow if need be.

thanks Marin for your plentiful insight!
this is also what we have stowed below in a milk crate also, guess the PO used it as you have described.. guess i will leave it on-board then.

 

[Nomad Willy]

Marin it looks like you've got maximum holding power right up at the top of your anchor requirements.

I've got 5 anchors on board and a very small Danforth for checking the bottom type. I've got that many anchors because I'm an experimenter. Have a Claw, a Manson Supreme, two Danforth's and an early edition XYZ. Sure wish I had a washdown system.

 

[markpierce]

I've got 5 anchors on board and a very small Danforth for checking the bottom type. I've got that many anchors because I'm an experimenter. Have a Claw, a Manson Supreme, two Danforth's and an early edition XYZ. Sure wish I had a washdown system.

Egad, I don't think there's space on the Coot to store all those anchors (and their individual rodes?), Sir ManyAnchors. I've limited myself to two onboard: the main, on-the-bow, Bruce-copy/phoney and a Fortress in the lazarette. A third, a small CQR leftover from my sailboating days, is in the garage.

 

[Marin]

Marin it looks like you've got maximum holding power right up at the top of your anchor requirements.

It is. I'm of the school that says if an anchor won't hold the boat it's not a whole lot of good to me. Of course it has to set in order to hold so that is almost as important to me as the holding part. Which is why my attention was caught by the rollbar anchors--- as I stated earlier, unlike the drag-and-grab anchors they are actually designed to have a very specific setting action.

But I'm not much interested in things like short scope or lightweight rode or whatever. Give me what I feel is a good design for intial setting and subsequent holding that's sized right for our boat, a solid, strong rode (our boat can handle the weight so that's not a concern), and I'm done thinking about it.

At this point I believe we've found that combination so I'm not looking around for anything else. Experimenting with anchors is not anything I'm interested in. I feel about anchors the same as I feel about skydiving--- why practice something that has to work the first time? So I'm interested only in anchors that DO work, not anchors that MIGHT work.

But if we didn't have the experimentors we'd all still be hanging fishermen's anchors on the sides of our bows so there's merit in the people who keep trying new ideas. It's just not an area of interest to me.

 

[markpierce]

It is. I'm of the school that says if an anchor won't hold the boat it's not a whole lot of good to me. Of course it has to set in order to hold so that is almost as important to me as the holding part.

Self re-setting is high on my list because the currents around here reverse direction once or twice a night. Like, does your anchor remain set while it swivels? The Bruce does this well.

 

[Marin]

Usually if an anchor sets well it will reset well if it's pulled out. The rollbar anchors are particularly good at this because if they come out of the bottom they immediately position themselves to knife right back in. As opposed to the conventional drag-and-grab anchors like the Danforth, CQR, Bruce, etc that have to start all over again by being dragged along on the hopes that a fluke will catch and dig in. And the single, spade-shaped fluke of the rollbar anchors would let it pivot in the bottom to realign with the pull, at least up to a point. Lots of variables, though, that determine if an anchor stays buried or comes out and has to reset itself.

And from testimonials I've read from people who've used rollbar anchors a lot in places like the SW Pacific, the rollbar anchors diig themselves in so deep when they're pulled on that even when the wind shifts and the boat ends up off at an angle or even behind the anchor they very often stay buried right where they are.

We have current changes four times a day up here and on up the coast and the currents in bays and anchorages can be from two to eight or nine knots. But I've not heard many complaints about people's anchors coming out and causing problems when the boat starts pulling in another direction due to current alone.

So even though a current can be fairly strong in terms of speed I don't know how hard it really pulls on the boat. When we're anchored we are moving around the anchor all the time but even when the current is running our all-chain rode pretty much goes straight down to the bottom and then off to the anchor. It might be different with a combination rode, I don't know. And this is current only. No significant wind on top of it.

All the times our previous anchor gave us problems with holding it's been the result of strong winds and waves, not current.

 

[markpierce]

Anchor "rope"?

 

[Marin]

What, did the spell checker put a "p" where there should have been a "d?"

 

[Nomad Willy]

It's not rope on a boat......it's line.

Rope is for farmers.

But if you were to hang a man or do other non-boaty things perhaps one would do them w a rope. But if you were a pirate I spoze hanging a man would be a boaty thing.

 

[Marin]

It's not rope on a boat......it's line.

Then why are the mooring and other "lines" many of us use come from the New England ROPE Company?

See, I think it's actually us that are in the wrong. The product is actually called "rope." Hence New England Rope. But some mariner dude way back, being stoned on bad rum and with what few functioning brain cells he had left fried by the sun called down one day, "Send me up another length of....." and then he couldn't remember the correct name.. So he bumbled around a bit.... "another length of.....uh, um, oh you know, that stuff, man. That stuff that looks like, you know man, like a line, man, when it's stretched out. Like you drew a line on the deck, man. Yeah, gimme another one of them lines, man."

And we've been wrong ever since.

 

[Peter B]

Yep, a rope is a rope...is a rope...even when one is ropable, or one is being roped in...just one meaning...a braided length of material which can be used to tie things, lift things, pull things, or hang things...even to giving a man enough rope to....you know...