Anchor size, big is better?

[Andy G]

I tend to get a head ache following threads here.I know there are some universal truths in this forum, Peter really owns Sarca,Eric owns more than 50% of the worlds known anchor reserves,I need an hour or two to digest Marin's replies and Mark will post a picture or two of something or other.

However, what I would like to know,in plain English, is size the major consideration in anchoring safely.

I have a 44lb CQR, am I better of with say a 60lb CQR or whatever, Or is it with my boat the 60lb CQR will offer no more holding power than my current 44lb model.

I know Peter will say a 2lb Sarca will hold the QE2 in an Atlantic gale, and Eric may say it depends on the mineral composition of the sea bed and the reproductive cycles of the local sea urchins, but all things considered is bigger better?

 

[markpierce]

Bigger is better as long as your windlass can handle it, fits on the boat/anchor roller, and it doesn't upset the boat's balance.

My present Bruce-like is adequate for the protected waters I sail. Otherwise I'd get something bigger.

 

[Marin]

In my opinion no, but size is a more important consideration than weight. Assuming some realities like your anchor needs to fit on your boat, you and your windlass need to be able to handle it, and so on, I think the number one consideration in anchors for boats our size is design. A very close number two in my opinion is size, and number three is weight.

If weight were the number one consideration the Fortress wouldn't work.

If size was the number one consideration we'd all be trying to put anchors on our boats that were physically too big for them.

So given the limitations of just how large an anchor will fit on your boat, that puts design at the top of my list, which is the primary reason we changed from a Bruce to a similar weight and size Rocna. The Rocna is eleven pounds heavier than the Bruce but as far as I'm concerned a mere eleven pounds is not going to make a squat-all difference to the holding power of an anchor. But the design of the Rocna (and Sarca) is in my opinion and experience vastly superior to a Bruce in the sizes most of us use on the kind and sizes of boats we have and is why the Rocna and Sarca set and hold so much better than a Bruce of similar size and weight.

 

[Peter B]

I tend to get a head ache following threads here.I know there are some universal truths in this forum, Peter really owns Sarca, Eric owns more than 50% of the worlds known anchor reserves,I need an hour or two to digest Marin's replies and Mark will post a picture or two of something or other.
However, what I would like to know,in plain English, is size the major consideration in anchoring safely.

I have a 44lb CQR, am I better of with say a 60lb CQR or whatever, Or is it with my boat the 60lb CQR will offer no more holding power than my current 44lb model.
I know Peter will say a 2lb Sarca will hold the QE2 in an Atlantic gale, and Eric may say it depends on the mineral composition of the sea bed and the reproductive cycles of the local sea urchins, but all things considered is bigger better?

Now Andy, you are really yanking some chains there, so you deserve all yez gets.
However, jokes aside, and assuming you seriously want to know...the answer is...yes and no...
Y'asked for that, didn't yah. Anyway...like Marin said....so don't waste money on a heavier CQR...

 

[jeffnick]

If you're not an anchor techie, weight is your friend. Did you ever try to set a Fortress in a 5 kt current...your boat length (or more) of chain will find the bottom well before your anchor and that Fortress will skate rather than set? It ain't much good if it can't find the bottom.

 

[Marin]

While we don't use our Fortress FX23 as our main anchor it's sized to be. If we had to set it in a current it seems logical to simply control your rearward drift with the engines. Just because the water's scooting across the bottom doesn't mean your boat or its anchor have to.

 

[Andy G]

Now Andy, you are really yanking some chains there, so you deserve all yez gets.
However, jokes aside, and assuming you seriously want to know...the answer is...yes and no...
Y'asked for that, didn't yah. Anyway...like Marin said....so don't waste money on a heavier CQR...

You did that on purpose. Still I supposed I deserved it.

So......IF I was considering buying a new anchor and say (sigh) had a Sarca in mind, given the boat is about 24,000lb, would I go heavier than my present 44lb anchor.

And would you give me a discount Peter. :lol:

 

[markpierce]

I've got a Fortress as a secondary anchor, but hate the thought of ever using it. Its wiggling will pinch my hand, it will bring up lots of sticky mud, and I won't trust it resetting when tidal currents change four times a day.

Gimme a Bruce any day.

 

[Peter B]

You did that on purpose. Still I supposed I deserved it.
So......IF I was considering buying a new anchor and say (sigh) had a Sarca in mind, given the boat is about 24,000lb, would I go heavier than my present 44lb anchor.
And would you give me a discount Peter. :lol:

Andy...it depends..... .......he..he..he
No..seriously, it does depend..on whether you wanted a fancier looking one, eg the Excel, or a more agricultural one, like mine, the Super Sarca. However although ideally it would weigh a bit more than 44lb, (my #6 is 49lb = 22kg, the weight required is not too different between them - theoretically a bit lighter for the Excel I believe, so about 25kgs (55lb) would be about right, but check it out for yourself here.
Looks like a #7 would be about right for the Super S (25kg) for your tonnage...actually, belay that, as they say...you might well get away with a #6 like mine in the super looking at the sizing list, but if you wanted to take a belt and braces approach, (and there's nothing wrong with that), then the 7 would be great - you'd never move - if your winch is ok with that weight, which I assume it is, if you were toying with a 60lb CQR...
Super SARCA Anchor No 7 - Galvanised Anchors - anchorright.com.au
or if you went Excel.....a #5 looks about right (22kg, ie same weight as the Super #6), assuming ~ 12m and 12 tonne
SARCA in Action - anchorright.com.au

Personally, for mine, the Excel lacks the tripping slot, and I like that feature, but each to his own, and no Marin, we'll let you off explaining why it's not a good feature this time - Andy knows the pros and cons by now I think...

So, good luck with that...
Whichever one you got you would not regret. Benn has an Excel Sarca and has tested it thoroughly and totally sold on it. As you observed, I swear by the Super S, although one would need one a bit heavier than the 2kg you quote for the Queen Mary, or was that Elizabeth - whatever - you would need a #50, (if they made it), for them....
And, no, sorry, I can't give a discount as I don't have any personal connection or investment, truly - I just like 'em....
Pete

 

[Nomad Willy]

The question is "bigger what" and the answer is bigger flukes. From there it gets complicated. Many parts of an anchor act as resistance to dragging such as the stock rods on a Danforth and the roll bars on RB anchors when they get or if they get . As I see it weight is mostly there to help get the anchor to set and fluke area is mostly there to hold the boat within the ability of the bottom to do so. The angle of the flukes in the bottom that is highly related to what anchor people call "throat angle", the scope used, the sharpness of the flukes and obviously even other factors will get the anchor set but basically fluke area will hold the boat on station. The biggest factor has nothing to do w the anchor at all and that is the sea floor or bottom. By far the biggest variable there is.
On another thread I posted not long ago an example of bigger is better is taken to the extreme w a 500# Navy anchor on a boat about 48' long.

 

[Delfin]

Andy, since you've received 5 opinions from 5 people, I'm sure you won't mind a sixth. The design of an anchor is more or less efficient compared to others depending on weight. My 44# Bruce on a 36 sailboat dragged like it wasn't anchored in Hospital Bay and off Lahaina, but worked pretty well otherwise. My current 176# Claw seems to be completely immovable regardless of what the wind and sea state is, and I feel I have tested that theory in real time more than once.

On your boat, a 44# Sarca or Manson would probably work just fine, and certainly better than the Bruce, but if your windlass and pocketbook and boat can handle something bigger, get it. There is absolutely zero rationale for a lighter anchor except I can't afford or can't life a bigger one. The one exception to this, as Marin noted is the Fortress which compensates for light weight by the design of its flukes, which design also has a tendency of picking up rocks, which renders it somewhat less useful, so I guess I wouldn't feel comfortable with a Fortress as a primary, but it makes a heck of a backup.

If you can't afford the difference between a bigger and smaller anchor, you probably can't afford the boat either, so that leaves can you lift it. I'd steer away from the current crop of Rocnas simply because they are not made of the same grade of steel as the Sarca and Manson. If I walked by your boat and saw an 80# Manson on it, I'd think that you knew what you were doing, equipment wise. If I saw a 22# Sarca, I'd assume you didn't anchor much. If I saw a 44# Bruce I'd wonder if your's dragged like mine.

So my 2 cents is get the biggest anchor you can lift and because of the size of your boat the modern designs mentioned above are by far your best choice.

 

[BruceK]

Andy, Rex who runs Sarca said a no. 5 Super Sarca might be ok for the IG36 but was at the extreme of capacity, no.6 was a safe choice. Seeing all the anchors displayed together, the big jump in size/proportions/weight is between #5 and #6. The 6 is still in the lounge room at home (doesn`t everyone keep an anchor there?) , I will fit it while alongside before we leave the shipwrights after the deck work. Heavy and awkward to lift, take care moving it.

 

[Forkliftt]

I tend to get a head ache following threads here.I know there are some universal truths in this forum, Peter really owns Sarca,Eric owns more than 50% of the worlds known anchor reserves,I need an hour or two to digest Marin's replies and Mark will post a picture or two of something or other.

However, what I would like to know,in plain English, is size the major consideration in anchoring safely.

I have a 44lb CQR, am I better of with say a 60lb CQR or whatever, Or is it with my boat the 60lb CQR will offer no more holding power than my current 44lb model.

I know Peter will say a 2lb Sarca will hold the QE2 in an Atlantic gale, and Eric may say it depends on the mineral composition of the sea bed and the reproductive cycles of the local sea urchins, but all things considered is bigger better?

If you have twins then yes. A single, then no..........

 

[Nomad Willy]

Forklift,
In a word YES.

But that dosn't take into consideration the weight of the ground tackle and how well you can deploy and retrieve it or the sea bottom you will usually anchor in but if you want to break it down to one element of most importance in a commercially available anchor on an unknown bottom yes .. size.

"I tend to get a head ache following threads here.I know there are some universal truths in this forum, Peter really owns Sarca,Eric owns more than 50% of the worlds known anchor reserves,I need an hour or two to digest Marin's replies and Mark will post a picture or two of something or other."

Many posts will be posted before anybody says anything more accurate, funny and revealing as what you just said ..... and I hope that dosn't give you a headache.

 

[Hendo78]

Andy...it depends..... .......he..he..he
No..seriously, it does depend..on whether you wanted a fancier looking one, eg the Excel, or a more agricultural one, like mine, the Super Sarca. However although ideally it would weigh a bit more than 44lb, (my #6 is 49lb = 22kg, the weight required is not too different between them - theoretically a bit lighter for the Excel I believe, so about 25kgs (55lb) would be about right, but check it out for yourself here.
Looks like a #7 would be about right for the Super S (25kg) for your tonnage...actually, belay that, as they say...you might well get away with a #6 like mine in the super looking at the sizing list, but if you wanted to take a belt and braces approach, (and there's nothing wrong with that), then the 7 would be great - you'd never move - if your winch is ok with that weight, which I assume it is, if you were toying with a 60lb CQR...
Super SARCA Anchor No 7 - Galvanised Anchors - anchorright.com.au
or if you went Excel.....a #5 looks about right (22kg, ie same weight as the Super #6), assuming ~ 12m and 12 tonne
SARCA in Action - anchorright.com.au

Personally, for mine, the Excel lacks the tripping slot, and I like that feature, but each to his own, and no Marin, we'll let you off explaining why it's not a good feature this time - Andy knows the pros and cons by now I think...

So, good luck with that...
Whichever one you got you would not regret. Benn has an Excel Sarca and has tested it thoroughly and totally sold on it. As you observed, I swear by the Super S, although one would need one a bit heavier than the 2kg you quote for the Queen Mary, or was that Elizabeth - whatever - you would need a #50, (if they made it), for them....
And, no, sorry, I can't give a discount as I don't have any personal connection or investment, truly - I just like 'em....
Pete

I agree brother! I'm a Sarca man also. I have 1 x Sarca Excel for the bow and 1 x Super Sarca for the stern if/when required. I wouldn't waste my time on any other crap out there. Get a certified Australian made anchor!

iPad Forum Runner

 

[Marin]

I'd steer away from the current crop of Rocnas simply because they are not made of the same grade of steel as the Sarca and Manson.

I hate to agree with this statement because I happen to think the Rocna is the best all-round small-vessel anchor design out there with the Sarca a close second, but were we in the market for an anchor today I would be pretty leery of getting one given the gyrations the product went through as a result of its manufacturing shift to China (ours was made years before this unfortunate compromise occurred). Since Sarcas are so far not obtainable in this area I would be inclined to go with a Manson and not use the slot.

 

[Peter B]

If you have twins then yes. A single, then no..........

Forklift, that's bein' plain perfidious....:lol:

 

[FF]

NO anchor works "best" in EVERY type bottom.

Size dies count or we would all be using 12lb Danforths.

Our solution is 3 slightly oversized 60 lb each anchors for the bow.

A Danforth and a Bruce , and a CQR for the grass and rocky areas.

2 are on the bow roller , the 3rd is lashed on deck.

All are set with a trip line which is moved to whichever will be working.

When 60 lb is not enough a second 60 is deployed by veering .

A 20H or 35H stern anchor is also usually deployed , even for just O'night.

Under 1 min to set and 3 or 4 to retrieve , makes me sleep better.

 

[Nomad Willy]

Fred your'e worse than me about old fashioned stuff. "out w the old in w the new" ... your eyes prolly don't even focus on doze words.

"your fathers Oldsmobile" would prolly be just fine for either of us but I do like many modern things like my XYZ anchor and my Volkswagen Golf (although the car is 12 years old). And your computer is obviously modern. I do like it when folks bring out older stuff that others wouldn't be caught dead with because they aren't the latest gimmick. A huge chunck of our population frequently uses things just because they are new and popular just assuming that they are better than anything that came before. The pop culture we live in often to mostly dosn't recognize the real value of things or activities and only sees the hype. So 3 cheers for your old anchors and the fact that they are serving you well.

Re your opening statement though what bottom do you think the SARCA or Rocna wouldn't work as well as most any other anchor?

 

[jeffnick]

Speaking of your fathers Oldsmobile...
YouTube

 

[Moonstruck]

AndyG, if there is one universal truth in this world it is that "size matters". No way around it.

 

[Andy G]

Try telling that to a Hobbit.

 

[Marin]

Andy-- my guess is that from all this you've concluded that size, weight, and design all play roles in determining how an anchor performs. There is no real rule of thumb you can depend on to apply across the board.

If bottom penetration is important where you boat then weight and design will probably have more of a role in an anchor's effectiveness than size. Where bottoms are soft or loose, size may well be more important than weight. If all-round performance is your desired result, design may be the most influential factor.

If we anchored consistently in mud and sand and penetration was not a major challenge a large-flunked Danforth or Fortress would probably be our choice (size). If we anchored in grassy bottoms or crusty-surface bottoms a pro-actve penetrating design like a Rocna or Sarca would be our choice (design) . If we routinely anchored in high wind, big wave situations the heaviest anchor we could manage (of any type) would be our choice.

So... no convenient answer.

 

[Searios]

My 49' Diesel Duck Sedan widebody - 68.000 lbs displacement- has an Ideal H6 hydraulic windlass, with a 132 lbs Navy Pool anchor on the bow side + a 140 lbs Sarca Excel on the bow roler.
THe Navy anchor is on 300 feet of 3/8" G70 chain and the Sarca Excell has a few feet of chain + rode.

The stern anchor is an 88 lbs Sarca Excel and there wil be a 4th anchor stored somewhere - haven't decided on which type yet - any recommendations?

I think my anchor gear is sufficient for most conditions.

 

[Nomad Willy]

Now who could argue that and a very relevant post to the OP. But the guy in Craig Ak w the 500# Navy anchor would perhaps think Searios was not really very serious about his ground tackle re "bigger is better".

 

[Peter B]

My 49' Diesel Duck Sedan widebody - 68.000 lbs displacement- has an Ideal H6 hydraulic windlass, with a 132 lbs Navy Pool anchor on the bow side + a 140 lbs Sarca Excel on the bow roler.
THe Navy anchor is on 300 feet of 3/8" G70 chain and the Sarca Excell has a few feet of chain + rode.

The stern anchor is an 88 lbs Sarca Excel and there wil be a 4th anchor stored somewhere - haven't decided on which type yet - any recommendations?

I think my anchor gear is sufficient for most conditions.

Searios, good choices - I'd say you are ready for anything. I wouldn't bother about a 4th anchor - really....
You already give meaning the old 'belt and braces' saying...only you've got an extra set of braces already...
As a matter of potential interest to others on here, (in the Northern Hemishere), who as yet still appear unable to get Sarcas, where did you get your Excels from...?

 

[Searios]

There is no dealer in Hong Kong so they were imported through a local company, which arranged the purchase, delivery and customs.

PM me if you want the company details.

 

[Peter B]

There you go guys, if you want one, message Searios. His contact/importer might be able to help.

 

[rwidman]

However, what I would like to know,in plain English, is size the major consideration in anchoring safely.

I have a 44lb CQR, am I better of with say a 60lb CQR or whatever, Or is it with my boat the 60lb CQR will offer no more holding power than my current 44lb model

Given the same brand and style of anchor, on the same boat, on the same bottom and with the same rode and scope, the heavier anchor will provide more holding power.

You may not need more holding power or your rode may part, but the heavier anchor will provide more holding power.

As for "the major consideration in anchoring safely", technique is up there with size. If you just drop the anchor off the bow, cut the engine, and go below to fix a drink, size isn't going to be that much help. Learn how to set an anchor correctly and you'll be ahead of the game.

 

[jeffnick]

No question about Ron's 'heavier is best', but I also believe there is an effective weight point for each style anchor. Did you ever try to get a bite on the bottom with a 15lb Navy anchor? It just doesn't happen - but they must work at higher weights or you wouldn't see them on huge boats. And I'll bet that same boat with a Navy anchor would twist up a Danforth style with it's pointy flukes in a heartbeat. So while your 90# claw might hold you in all conditions, a 20# claw might be useless in all but ideal conditions -- just because your 200# whatever does a great job for you, doesn't mean that the same style anchor will be worth spit at a lighter weight.

And while we're at it, in challenging conditions, isn't it possible for chain to 'float' on some surfaces and inhibit anchor penetration? Seems to me that cable/wire would be the ideal rode for penetration, so I omit the chain and just use all 3 strand for convenience, elasticity and effectiveness.