Another Anchor Question

[DennisB1]

The 55kg Vulcan that I am using sometimes brings up maybe a 100 lbs or more of mud which requires shoveling and a good wash down. My winch will pull over 2000lbs and will stall if you attempt to break the anchor free without waiting for a minute or two with a vertical pull.

 

[Nomad Willy]

Anchors w concave flukes bring up more mud. The Manson Supreme is a good/bad example.

The anchors from ARA (Anchor Right Australia) Are quite likely best at bringing up little or no mud. The SARCA and Excel. However this mud shedding feature comes at a very small price in maximum holding power.

See Anchor Setting Videos By Steve G. The thread w 603 responses.

 

[Peter B]

The 55kg Vulcan that I am using sometimes brings up maybe a 100 lbs or more of mud which requires shoveling and a good wash down. My winch will pull over 2000lbs and will stall if you attempt to break the anchor free without waiting for a minute or two with a vertical pull.

Anchors w concave flukes bring up more mud. The Manson Supreme is a good/bad example.

The anchors from ARA (Anchor Right Australia) Are quite likely best at bringing up little or no mud. The SARCA and Excel. However this mud shedding feature comes at a very small price in maximum holding power.

See Anchor Setting Videos By Steve G. The thread w 603 responses.

Correct, Eric, and the above comments illustrate beautifully the difference between the convex and concave nextgen anchors. It's also is why absolute holding power at one deep set, as in testing, is not necessarily the best overall guide to performance. As that huge chunk of seabed the concave anchors often hold onto, and which gives then a slight edge in holding power over the convex Sarcas in a dead straight, one-off pull, does not equate to being able to repeat that tide/current change after change, because the fluke is sometimes so chock full of substrate it impedes the reset. Whereas the convexity and fluke slots in the Sarcas allow this to be shed more easily to enhance the quick change of direction reset.

 

[Xlantic]

The worst, cheapest anchor set properly with lots of scope will usually hold better than the best anchor not set properly on less than ideal scope.

An oversized worst, cheap anchor will usually hold better than an undersized best anchor. A big enough rock used for an anchor will probably hold too.

There is too much emphasis on having the "best anchor" that will magically keep you in place irregardless of skill or technique.

Many boaters consider and purchase anchors for the "bling" factor.

Anchor selection should be based on the type of bottom that you may encounter, whether anchoring in tidal conditions where the boat does an 180 every 6 hours, the strongest wind that may be encountered and other factors.

I see every conceivable anchor being deployed by other boats while we are anchored. Some that I would never choose. We don't see that many boats dragging when the wind picks up.

Most dragging we see are right after anchoring. The result of inadequate scope and/or poor setting or no setting at all.

Seasoned boaters have their favorite anchor and simply upsize as they move up in boat size. If you have the same brand anchor for a long time, you will become accustomed to it's setting, handling and ideocycracies.

There are a lot of boaters, mostly sailboaters, that use CQR's without issues. I'd try out your CQR before replacing it. Anchor somewhere, preferably with wind, earlier in the day and sit through 2 tide changes and see how the anchor behaves.

Instead of buying a new anchor, I'd go to all chain instead of the chain/rope rode that you have.

There is no need to trade-off anchoring technique and anchor quality. One can and should strive for both.

Good anchoring technique with a poor anchor is still sub-optimal and potentially unsafe.

I believe a perfectly set anchor that is unable to re-set itself in a 3:00 AM, 180 degree wind reversal from a squall is as bad (if not worse) than a poorly set anchor that excels at quickly re-setting itself.

 

[psneeld]

My 60lb Manson Supreme often has a little mud on it, usually near the shank and not near the tip.

Much of my anchoring is in sticky muddy creeks with reversing currents or sticky marl.

So even if a little mud does stick, and I am talking a handful or two, not an anchors worth....I DONT worry or care.

 

[FF]

As a mostly inshore cruiser , especially in the NE the areas where a 6 or7-1 scope can be set with room for tidal reversing currents is really limited.


By setting a stern anchor lead to the bow it becomes a non issue. It takes under 5 min to drop the second anchor astern lead its line outboard to the bow and give it a tug to set it.


In most mornings the stern will be over its anchor so a straight up and down pull is easy, tho we had a 2 speed sailboat winch mounted .


Technique is possibly more important than paying $10.00 a pound for a lump of iron.

 

[Nomad Willy]

Xlantic wrote;
“ I believe a perfectly set anchor that is unable to re-set itself in a 3:00 AM, 180 degree wind reversal from a squall is as bad (if not worse) than a poorly set anchor that excels at quickly re-setting itself. “

Most of the time re-setting is just “setting”. If one sets an anchor well it will take a strong wind to pull it out even backwards. So I’m thinking it’s a rather rare occasion that an anchor will be extracted during a reversal. The problem occurs when considerable mud is stuck to the fluke giving the anchor a shape that dosn’t permit the anchor to perform as it was designed. So if an anchor is good at setting it will reset if extracted provided it’s not impacted w mud that dosn’t slide off during the re-set.

My opinion is biased some as in Alaska where I’ve done most of my anchoring I experienced very little mud “impactions”. Once though my 13lb Danforth came up w about 40lbs of smelly black mud the took 20 minutes (at least) to get off. No reversal though as anchoages in SE Alaska are usually calm at night .. in the summer.

 

[caltexflanc]

The CQR was invented particularly to address clocking situations.

Personally I define a well-set anchor as one that will perform in the conditions at hand.
It is quite rare that a "reversal" causes the boat to travel in straight line. It will rotate around the well-set anchor , often times laying to the chain, which itself is buried in the mud. I've posted the below photo or one like it several times here. Shows the normal rotation due to current, then the effect of a sudden dramatic wind shift, and back to normal.

The anchor involved is an 88# Delta on all BBB chain rode. The boat a high-windage Hatteras 56MY. Bottom is mud.

 

[Nomad Willy]

Peter B wrote;
“ Correct, Eric, and the above comments illustrate beautifully the difference between the convex and concave nextgen anchors.”

That implies that only “next gen” anchors are concave.
That’s mostly true. But there are concave older anchors. The Claw .. but looking some I find that you’re right. And there is a reason. That being that the Frenchman that designed the Spade researched the fluke shape and found that concave shapes offered more resistance to moving in the direction of the concave side in a fluid. How much I don’t know but it’s enough the make the anemometer work. So the only research required was to look at an anemometer. So all the truly concave anchors were post Spade.

But when there’s a reversal of wind or current any anchor that set well in the first place will almost certainly set well again. If it’s not clogged w mud. So the ability for an anchor to re-set is closely related to mud and anchor fluke design.

One can learn a lot about reversals watching Steve’s Setting Video. And there are other aspects of reversing performance like throat angle and anchor CG. But as always the sea floor is the biggest element of anchoring performance.

But for the reversal thing to actually be a problem fairly unusual things need to stack up. I can’t even remember a time when I experienced a reversal much less one that would pull an anchor out. But I know that there are places that it happens frequently.

But a reversal followed by a pullout and reset should be almost always a successful event w/o mud stuck hard to the fluke.

 

[syjos]

If an anchor is set properly and deep into the bottom after putting out adequate scope, it should not pull out when the current reverses. Before the current does it's 180 degree reversal, it gradually reduces speed to 0, reverses and slowly builds speed. During that period of slower current, the boat wanders around in a random pattern and eventually ends up pointing in the opposite direction. The rode is slack during the reversal and slowly travels along the bottom until taut again.

During that slow reversal, the anchor may or may not move. Depends on the strength of the current and type of anchor.

Anchors with protrusions like the Danforth types have the possibilty of getting the rode caught on the stock or crown.

Reversing wind is similar. Wind never shifts fast. It also reverses slowly. Unless it's a storm.

Good way to test or demonstrate an anchor is at a shallow beach with a small version of an anchor. Simulate tide and wind reversals by pulling on the rode at various points and watch the behavior of the anchor and rode.

 

[caltexflanc]

The rode is slack during the reversal and slowly travels along the bottom until taut again.

Actually, in benign conditions, the rode may never be taught. I've seen the rode leading to my anchor right off my port quarter, the boat laying to the rode, not the anchor.

During that slow reversal, the anchor may or may not move. Depends on the strength of the current and type of anchor.

More dependent on how it was set, but generally true.

Anchors with protrusions like the Danforth types have the possibility of getting the rode caught on the stock or crown.

If your shank is above the sea floor, you haven't set the anchor correctly.

Reversing wind is similar. Wind never shifts fast. It also reverses slowly. Unless it's a storm.

True that, see my pic. Been through that scenario dozens of times.

Good way to test or demonstrate an anchor is at a shallow beach with a small version of an anchor. Simulate tide and wind reversals by pulling on the rode at various points and watch the behavior of the anchor and rode.

Great point. It will also teach you how anchors "soak" especially into sand and most mud.
In my opinion one of the biggest mistake people make is initially powering down on their anchor too hard and too soon. Sometimes you need to due to weather conditions (and I disagree with the "hard" portion), but seldom at first set.