Another Client Almost Scammed

[RickyD]

I just started a new business and I have been inundated by official looking companies looking to sell me signs and posters required to be posted in employee areas. They always include lines about how I could be subject to fines if I don't buy their stuff. I have no employees at the time so these things go in the trash really fast. Same kind of a deal. They sell you stuff that you can get for free or at least cheap.

 

[JoeApicella]

They may not technically be scammers, but they go to great lengths to make their website look like an official USCH site. I almost got caught by them in 2013 before I realized my mistake. I tried to call, email, etc. to cancel but got no response. I finally had to stop the credit card charge.

 

[Panama Dave]

I made the mistake of using their "services" twice. I paid with my Amex card and both times I started getting fraudulent charges on my card within a week. I had to cancel and replace the card. It might just be a coincidence but this has never happened to me any other time.

 

[HiDHo]

IMO USCG documentation is a legal scam. Documentation is a title on your vessel, that’s why mortgage company require documentation. The doc #’s aid in recovering stolen boats. Why you have to renew your documentation every year opposed to filing a new documentation when the vessel has a new owner, is a license to print money. Imagine if you had this same requirement on your home title or deed.
Our boat was documented when we bought it and we kept documenting even though it’s not a requirement for recreational boats. Probably the best way to stop the yearly or five year fee’s is to drop the documentation and I’m sure there’s a fee to do that.

 

[denverd0n]

Well, that's not a bad point. You get a title for your car one time, and you don't ever have to renew it. Same with title insurance that you get on your house, or transferring the deed into your name when you pay it off -- both are one and done.

So why do I have to renew the documentation (which really is just another word for a title) over and over?

 

[menzies]

Folks, the title and Document Certificate are two totally different things.

You don't HAVE to document your boat. If you don't think there is a benefit to doing so versus cost, just don't do it.

 

[HiDHo]

It’s a scam.

 

[menzies]

Hmmm, why wouldn't the coast guard boarding officers accept the certificate - it is the proper certificate from the coast guard? That just paid through the nose to get it.

Do you have the rest of that memo?

 

[CaptTom]

IMO USCG documentation is a legal scam. Documentation is a title on your vessel, that’s why mortgage company require documentation.

This is a good point. There's really no need to renew, unless something changes.

I'd also add that the annual fee was initially implemented with the explanation that it covered the cost of processing the renewal every year. Now we can renew for five years. The cost of processing is the same. But we have to pay five times as much for a five-year renewal. Is that a scam? I would have a hard time arguing against that.

 

[psneeld]

It's a scam if you believe you need it and you don't... who's fault is that?


It's a continuation of a long time issue that may or may not benefit a recreational boat owner.


It's more than just a title...read up...



It's not the USCG's responsibility to know if you need it or not...and there's nothing wrong with charging for a service provided.


USCG is a scam? Not really....

 

[Tator]

I have made it a point in my life to try and never do business (or any other relationship) with the type of people who have this business style or the type of people who think this is okay. It has served well my business' and myself.

Tator

 

[psneeld]

I have made it a point in my life to try and never do business (or any other relationship) with the type of people who have this business style or the type of people who think this is okay. It has served well my business' and myself.

Tator

My post was about the USCG not being a scam... the other company I don't even waste a breath on....whether people think they are or are not a scam.



Hope your post wasn't relating to my post and the word "scam" was directed correctly....

 

[HiDHo]

The USCG definitely an important part of Home Land Security and the Armed Forces of the United States.
IMO the documentation center built and located in Falling Waters, West Virginia an example Washington, D.C. pork that was gotten by Senator Byrd years ago.
It’s probable employing over 100 worker shuffling paper in the digital age. The $25 dollar annual fee started a few years ago. I would guess when bean counters started asking questions about the centers budget. It would be interesting reading if with the fee structures now in place self sustains.
question: is there any benefit in having a recreational boat documented ?
Maybe some of the TF brokers could give options on this.

 

[psneeld]

Getting a loan without documentation is tricky from my experience.

It alone may be the biggest and best reason to be documented.

Some world travellers swear by it...but in the Western Hemisphere I have heard it isn't all that necessary.

 

[markpierce]

IMO USCG documentation is a legal scam. Documentation is a title on your vessel, that’s why mortgage company require documentation. The doc #’s aid in recovering stolen boats. Why you have to renew your documentation every year opposed to filing a new documentation when the vessel has a new owner, is a license to print money. Imagine if you had this same requirement on your home title or deed.
Our boat was documented when we bought it and we kept documenting even though it’s not a requirement for recreational boats. Probably the best way to stop the yearly or five year fee’s is to drop the documentation and I’m sure there’s a fee to do that.

Similarly, we need to annually pay for state registration of land-based vehicles, boats, as well as airplanes, often including personal property taxes, let alone taxes on real estate. So, what's the difference?

 

[menzies]

Similarly, we need to annually pay for state registration of land-based vehicles, boats, as well as airplanes, often including personal property taxes, let alone taxes on real estate. So, what's the difference?

You don't have to document your car as well as register it.

 

[CaptTom]

You don't have to document your car as well as register it.

But in most states, you do need a title plus registration.

I consider the documentation more like a title than a registration. And whether it's called registration, excise tax, or any other name, annual fees to the state are just a way to tax you for owning a boat. Again, same as a car.

 

[HiDHo]

Mr. M, In a way you do. Every state has there own title procedure. Example if you buy a car in Georgia and move to Florida you are required to pay for a new Florida title. It’s basically the same legal document but Florida collects about $75.
Probable the biggest scam is real estate title insurance, own a title company collect hundreds or thousands of dollars issuing title insurance on real estate. The claims rate probable is almost non- existent.

 

[menzies]

Boat: Title, Registration, documentation optional.

Car: Title, Registration. No Documentation.

A boat's documentation certificate is not it's title.

 

[HiDHo]

But it looks like a title and can be abstracted like a title and denotes ownership like a title and identifies liens like a title.
It is refer to as a federal title in many publications.

 

[menzies]

But it looks like a title and can be abstracted like a title and denotes ownership like a title and identifies liens like a title.
It is refer to as a federal title in many publications.

So those on here who have not documented their boat don't have a title?

 

[denverd0n]

So those on here who have not documented their boat don't have a title?

Those who have NOT documented their boat probably do. Here in Florida, at least, if your boat is documented then you do NOT need a title. The state considers your documentation to be the same thing as a title, or at least a substitute for titling it with the state.

 

[menzies]

Those who have NOT documented their boat probably do. Here in Florida, at least, if your boat is documented then you do NOT need a title. The state considers your documentation to be the same thing as a title, or at least a substitute for titling it with the state.

I sit corrected, you are correct.

 

[richvanf]

You'd be surprised what happens with the threat of a significant law suit from an attorney and posting their company's name on a computer site such as this site. And turn their sorry ass into the USCG.

You can also go to the FBI website, describe what happened and ask "Is this legal?"

 

[Chuck34]

They aren't scammers.

They are legitimate businesses offering to do something simple for you for an exorbitant amount.

You get the documentation as promised.

Well...I would guess at least 90-95% of the people who do use these "legitimate businesses" think they are dealing with the real CG and when they find out they paid $50 extra for no additional services, they are totally pissed. Happened to me about 4 years ago. The letter I got in the mail was very convincing that it came from the CG as well as their website. I was HOT.
Ever since it happened, I made it my mission to warn as many people as possible on numerous boating websites with multiple postings.

 

[menzies]

Well...I would guess at least 90-95% of the people who do use these "legitimate businesses" think they are dealing with the real CG and when they find out they paid $50 extra for no additional services, they are totally pissed. Happened to me about 4 years ago. The letter I got in the mail was very convincing that it came from the CG as well as their website. I was HOT.
Ever since it happened, I made it my mission to warn as many people as possible on numerous boating websites with multiple postings.

But, is it a scam?

 

[Chuck34]

But, is it a scam?

Scam, a fraudulent or deceptive act.
These companies design their mailings and websites to DECEIVE people into thinking they are dealing with the real CG. Yes, there is enough wording to barely be legal, but many people fall to this scam. Yes it is a scam.

 

[menzies]

Scam, a fraudulent or deceptive act.
These companies design their mailings and websites to DECEIVE people into thinking they are dealing with the real CG. Yes, there is enough wording to barely be legal, but many people fall to this scam. Yes it is a scam.

So why are they not taken to court?

 

[Chuck34]

So why are they not taken to court?

Like I said, there is enough wording in their letters and websites to make them legal and someone in the Fed govt put some heat on them because their letters and websites are not as blatant as they were a few years ago.

Make no mistake about it...these companies business models depend on gullible boat owners thinking they are dealing with the real CG and they did everything legally possible to make that happen.

 

[psneeld]

Not sure even if this was a flagrant scam that it would be big enough for the feds to worry about.

I was surprised when assaults on federal officers were passed over for "bigger" crimes.