Any reason to choose Yanmar - Camano Troll?

[Nomad Willy]

I see rwidman's pic in his avatar and see the boat at a high angle of attack. Not on full plane. And to get it there would take more than a little more power. So if this is really full speed it's not even close to 20 knots.
I'm quite sure I saw the "twenty knots" comment on TF in a discussion on the boat and think the comment came from a builder rep. If so that could be a very light boat w one or two aboard and propped correctly.
It's been a long time since I've seen a good pic of the aft end of the hull bottom but if it's all a straight run from amidships to the transom it has to be a planing hull.
But it is whatever it is and does what it does.
What does the Troll weigh?

 

[TheDory]

I believe it's 10,000lbs.

I'm not sure where the 20 kts come from. I haven't seen that anywhere in my research. Seems like 14-15 is always mentioned as top speed.

There are actually some interesting old videos on YouTube that discuss the design.

If you look at this guy's channel, he has a whole series of these videos.

 

[Comodave]

Good luck with the survey. And sea trial. Hope it works out for you. Personally I will never own another Volvo again. Been there and didn’t enjoy it at all. They ran great but as said parts were not available even though the boat was brand new. We just bought a boat last month and when I was looking the first thing I would check is what engines the boat had, if it had Volvos I wouldn’t even look at the listing.

 

[rwidman]

I see rwidman's pic in his avatar and see the boat at a high angle of attack. Not on full plane. And to get it there would take more than a little more power. So if this is really full speed it's not even close to 20 knots.
I'm quite sure I saw the "twenty knots" comment on TF in a discussion on the boat and think the comment came from a builder rep. If so that could be a very light boat w one or two aboard and propped correctly.
It's been a long time since I've seen a good pic of the aft end of the hull bottom but if it's all a straight run from amidships to the transom it has to be a planing hull.
But it is whatever it is and does what it does.
What does the Troll weigh?

It's funny you should mention that picture. It was actually taken on our first cruise from Charleston, SC to Beaufort, SC by one of our friends on a group trip. This is the trip I mentioned where I was making about eleven knots and didn't realize how inefficient it is travelling at that speed.

I should probably use a different picture because that's not how I run anymore.

The Camano Troll is supposed to weigh about 10,000 lb. For those with a wife who packs the boat, that would be 12,000 lb.

 

[rwidman]

It's really difficult for me to read the Volvo bashing posts and respond without commenting in a negative way on the people making those posts so I will only say the following:

Volvo makes good, reliable, rugged and long lasting engines.
Volvo engines are standard engines for many popular, quality production boats.
Volvo parts are not hard to find if you know how to look for parts.
Many Volvo replacement parts are available from third party manufacturers at lower prices than Volvo's retail price.
Any decent diesel mechanic should be able to work on a Volvo engine.

If someone refuses to consider a certain boat because it has a Volvo engine, he is limiting his choices of boats and may be passing on the perfect boat for his needs.

 

[TheDory]

My brother boats up on Lake Michigan and he said some of the Great Lakes manufacturers, like Tiara, are switching or have switched to Volvos. So engines, parts, service, etc may become even more available.

Definitely wasn't the decision point for my purchase, but the newer age and low hours was. Hopefully the Yanmar proves to be as reliable as the Volvo has been for the other Camano owners.

 

[YellowPiper]

I have a camono hull 248
It has yanmar
Does 15 knots wide open dry

I live volvos so would not hesitate on a camano with a vilvo

 

[TheDory]

Spoke with some Camano owners today in my marina. They have a 2006 with the Yanmar. WOT for them is only 3300 rpm and he said that's what it's supposed to be per Yanmar. so it reaches quite a but lower max RPM than the Volvo. He's also never seen 15kts. 12 is WOT in the Spring. He described a similar fuel burn at 8 kts as what's been described earlier in the thread.

 

[YellowPiper]

Yes. Yanmar wot is 3300rpm. Does 15 knots dry. So not loaded down with full water, fuel food clothes etc

Loaded down 12-13 max

But that being said i never run her there
Cruising is 2100 rpm at 8knots and 1.75 gal per hour.
This mine and her happy placek

 

[gatesharris]

Have a 2001 Camano with a Volvo.

She's wonderful.

But, it is expensive to maintain that engine, but the extra costs are not a significant part of the cost of owning a trawler.

She's happy at 7-8 knots. Will get on up about 10, but pushing it. OK for a while, but not for hours.

The fuel at 7-8 knots is about 2 gal/hr. But, the costs of fuel for us is not a significant part of the costs of the boat.

The Volvo starts when I touch the key, runs smooth as only an inline 6 can, and I never worry if she'll get me there.

I do take very, very good care of her, however, and just "pay the man" for the annual maintenance.

The Camano is just a good, honest boat.

 

[DDW]

Before I just wrote Volvos off, I had a long chat with their local distributor, and they basically said, we can't give you the support info, or computer programs, or tech support because you're too dumb to figure it out.



All the other motor manufacturers, Yanmar, Cummins, Cat, Merc are the opposite and the best of help.
.

My experience is the opposite - Cummins would not give me the time of day, unless a $150/hr tech and his proprietary computer program provided it. Cummins charged me $20 for a 1/2" bolt and $60 for two O-rings.

Volvo on the other hand has been helpful and while parts aren't cheap, they are readily available online from Volvo or other online retailers as well as the local shop.

So experiences differ.

 

[TheDory]

The Camano is just a good, honest boat.

Exactly what I'm looking for.

 

[Nomad Willy]

Hey kids,
If you’re only going to go “7-8 knots” why have three times the power it takes t do that??

 

[mpstan]

Hey kids,
If you’re only going to go “7-8 knots” why have three times the power it takes t do that??

Heck that’s nothing. You caught me presently approaching Anacortes at our typical speed, 9kts. Our twin 3208s are 640 hp….. what am I using……. 150?

 

[Frosty]

Hey kids,
If you’re only going to go “7-8 knots” why have three times the power it takes t do that??

I'd guess for most people it's because that's what they put in the Camano, and not too many people are going to take out a well-running 200hp engine to replace it with a smaller, "more economical" one (which I only put in quotes because you'd have to buy a new engine to replace your already working one, which is not so economical).

Unless you are our very own DurantF, who ordered a new Helmsman 31 (Camano done by Helmsman) and purposely specified a smaller engine for the very reason you suggest (he was happy to cruise at 7 knots or so). (Helmsman accommodated him even though they, too, put in the larger engines normally.)

****
Then too, I'm sure many Camano owners do use that extra speed sometimes (get to the anchorage before dark, smooth the motion a bit in certain seas by adjusting speed, etc.)

 

[Bryant]

Yanmar

Thanks David. The ones I've seen have the 4LHA. No electronics sounds great to me.

Curious if there's any performance differences between the Volvo and Yanmar or if speeds and fuel consumption are generally the same.

i

I love Camano Trolls and would probably downsize to one but for the choice of power. Volvo is a no starter due to the cost and availability of parts. Yanmars are very different than most engines, difficult to work on (I have) and depending on where you are, you may not be able to find anyone who can or will. I’d research that extensively before you buy.

 

[rwidman]

Hey kids,
If you’re only going to go “7-8 knots” why have three times the power it takes t do that??

Originally, the first few Camano Trolls were powered by a Volvo four cylinder engine. They soon switched to the TAMD41P which is a six cylinder engine.

Why? I met the original owner of the company and talked about speeding back home after fishing trips. I think the idea behind the Camano Troll was making a trawler that could cruise at hull speed but go fast when needed. I think it turned out that most of the people who bought them actually cruised at hull speed most of the time.

Of course, there are always the clowns on the Internet insisting that a diesel engine needs to be run at 80% of it's power at all times. They would have me cruising at 11 knots and stopping at every fuel dock along the way. I don't subscribe to that theory and merrily cruise along at a quiet and economical 2,000 RPM day in and day out.

If I could sell two of my cylinders and keep four, I would be tempted to do so. I don't see that happening.

 

[rwidman]

i

I love Camano Trolls and would probably downsize to one but for the choice of power. Volvo is a no starter due to the cost and availability of parts. .......

Well, that's your loss, but I think it's a foolish choice. You can get parts and you can often get them for less than the Volvo list price. I'll bet parts for other marine engines are pretty expensive also.

 

[GJWorley]

Hello All,


I purchased a Camano last year, 1998 Hull 74, and thought I would add my experience. The engine was the TAMD Volvo but had some challenges. The owner had allowed the bilge to fill with water on land...up to the valve covers. That particular event is a subject for another thread.

Upon purchase and a going over by a Volvo mechanic, we moved the boat about 100 miles and promptly dropped a valve likely due to water lock. The mechanic said "no guarantees" like there are ever guarantees with an old boat. I purchased the boat $$$-wise with a re-engine as a possibility and that is what happened. I could have rebuilt but decided on a re-engine.

Keeping to the subject of this thread, I re-engined with a new Yanmar 4lv 230z. It wasn't cheap and the re-engine was a science project but turned out pretty nice. I chose the Yanmar after some research on noise, parts, reliability, availability...but could have gone with the Volvo D4 or a Cummins 6BT The Cummins would not fit easily in the Camano...but it could have been done. There is a Camano in Florida with 6BT. My mechanic chatted with the mechanic who installed that engine. He recommended going with a Yanmar. The price of the Yanmar, several mechanic's recommendations, and availability (COVID) sealed the deal.

Along with the re-engine we also went with the ZF trans and we needed a new shaft, fiberglass work around the shaft log, 4" muffler...yada, yada...science project. But now she is pretty much brand new below the hatch.

With this 4lv 230 I get 3600 WOT which gives me 19knots...slack tide, no wind, calm, 3/4 fuel, 1/2 water...and not much else on board. Anything above 15knots is a bit squirrely. You don't want to be in a following sea. This boat does have trim tabs. The prop is a 20/18. The TAMD had a 20/21.

I will know the burn rate when I refuel this month, but it is supposed to be slightly better than the TAMD. I usually run at 2700 rpm which is 12knots. 3000 rpm gives me 14-15 knots. 1600 rpm gives me the 7.5 knots that so many Camano owners love.

This engine size gives a bit more space for working in the bilge, especially aft.

The Camano is a great, solid boat. My wife says this is my last boat...lol.

 

[TheDory]

My surveyor was very impressed with the construction. Said I'm getting "one hell of a boat."

 

[GJWorley]

I have loved the Camanos for some time. Looked at these boats back in 2003, but ended up in an older Hatteras because we were going to live aboard off and on. We ended up doing the loop on that boat and then sold her. Fast forward, last summer I saw this boat with all of its challenges, yet I knew the bones of the Camano were solid, so I purchased her. They are great littoral boats.

You will be very happy with your new boat...congrats!

 

[TheDory]

Thanks. Picking her up on NY on Weds and bringing her down to Annapolis. Weather isn't looking too hot for the NJ portion...fingers crossed that it changes.

 

[GJWorley]

How was your trip down to Annapolis? Any thoughts on your new Camano?

 

[TheDory]

The trip down was great. We ended up doing it in just 4 days. Started out with a great 2-day weather window so we did Haverstraw to Cape May in 2 days. The next day was pretty snotty on the Delaware Bay but we made it to Chesapeake City. Fourth day was Chesapeake City to Annapolis.

Love the boat. And even better, my wife loves it. We've spent just about every weekend aboard somewhere on the Bay and she likes to go work and stay on the boat mid week too. It's exactly what I was looking for. Still a relatively small boat but incredible cabin space. And the flybridge space for Happy Hours is amazing.

We've been out in probably 3-4 footers, which are really steep and choppy on the Bay, and she did great.

It's awfully nice to have the extra speed when desired.

 

[Codger2]

It's awfully nice to have the extra speed when desired.

Interesting! I couldn't agree more but I find it odd that more skippers don't post similar responses. You can always go at lower speeds but many times I found that putting a little more coal on the fire helped to smooth out the ride!

 

[GJWorley]

Congrats on getting the boat "home." It sounds like you are making it your own now.

I just spent a beautiful morning cruising the upper Potomac...inside of course with the Buc heater doing its job.

I winterized the systems a few weeks ago except for the engine. I hope to keep cruising until just after Christmas and then will winterize the engine as insurance for power outages.

 

[GJWorley]

I had promised a full burn with the new Yanmar. Here are some preliminary numbers since July:

Burn per hour was 3.58 gallons. Looking at the distance cruise during this time is more difficult as I was ops checking many systems, stopping and starting but a rough estimate is 130 miles. Speed away from the dock was between 4 and 18 knots.

This gives a rough mileage of 2.16 miles per gallon real world with no concern for hull speed. This lines up with the Yanmar posted fuel curve giving 5.5 gallons per hour at 2800 rpm which provides 12 Knots with Just Be.

 

[ancora]

I've had Volvos for over 21 years in my Nova trawler. Good engines and ideal for the DIY boat owner, as they are easy to work on. Parts cost triple those of Cat or Cummins, with availability a problem as there is not one dedicated Volvo dealer in North America. The only reason you see so many new Volvo equipped boats, is their policy of giving the engines to the manufacturers who do not have to pay for them until the unit sells.