Any Regrets?

[rpeterson]

I bought my first house when I was 25 and owned homes and property all my life. I am now 68 bought a boat that I can live on (48' Kadey Krogen). Will shortly have my LAST house up for sale, plan on moving aboard in March 2015. Travel plans are a trip to Alaska next summer, then down to San Diego by Oct. to meet up with the Baja ha ha group and on to Mexico. I have a friend that did the same thing 2 years ago and he keeps emailing me, "come find me"...all I know is he is somewhere in the Caribbean. My wife and I sold our business a year ago in anticipation of this move. We have worked together in the same office for years so we know we can get along. I look at it as just another phase in my life, that I would regret if I didn't do it now that I have the opportunity. We can always move back to the hard, but all I know when I am on the boat I sleep like a baby, and am content getting up in the morning setting on the flybridge with a cup of coffee, watching the ocean and wildlife, the ocean is so alive compared to the subdivision and city that I live in. It makes me see life in a different perspective. Yes I will give up a way of life that is very comfortable, but life is suppose to be an adventure, otherwise it is boring. Don't let the pull of the comforts of the land and your home hold you back. There is just no way with the opportunity, I can not do it. Nor can you.....go for it, you will regret it if you don't. See you in the Caribbean next year!

 

[ALL IN]

Thanks rpeterson. I am going do it. Having the comforts of a home and "stuff" is fun but I am looking for adventure and excitement.

 

[Autumn Dream]

We are seriously considering the options - first to find a boat we can afford to own and live aboard. Found a few that we want to go take a look at.

We have worked together for 25 years (yes - even as 2 engineers) so no worries about that. I know "my place" and we each have our own areas that we are responsible for on the boat, and consult together when we have issues.

All the suggestions and advise are great. Fortunately we already have rules in place about "stuff" - even in the house. Collections are slowly being sold or given away as we find we don't need all the stuff we have. When to retire (early!!!!) is the next consideration.

We know what we really need to be happy, and it isn't much, but it needs to be sound, and comfortable.

It sounds like everyone has very different definitions of live-aboard as well. We do not want to move from our house (on the water) to a boat tied to a slip in a single location. Might as well stay in the house. The dream is to cruise, spending time at each location as it pleases (and the weather cooperates), heading south in the winters and getting out of hurricane zones in the season. So, if we sold the house, full-time cruisers are what we would become!

 

[rpeterson]

Autumn Dream, just a thought, before we bought out boat, we did a lot of "bare boat" vacations. Where you just rent the boat and go, no captain. We did it in both Mexico and the Caribbean. We made a point of renting different boats. Here in the Pacific Northwest there are companies where you can lease/rent boats for a week or longer. They are private boats that the owners rent out. They have all shapes and sizes to try. We found once we were out on the water for a week or longer we found what we really needed of the boat to make us comfortable. You just can not walk-on a boat a visualize yourself living on it. Then once you find the right boat, then comes the task of finding one for sale for the right price and in good shape. That took us most of a year. We, like you wanted a boat that didn't limit us to where we could go. We did not want to trade living in a house to living in a marina. I just wouldn't do that. We will be cruisers so we needed a boat that would take us where we wanted to go and be comfortable. We found a Kadey Krogen that we could afford. It will take us anywhere in the world. A 42 left Mexico this spring and their first stop was French Polynesia they are going on to Australia. Another left Nova Scotia and first stop the Azores. Not making a sales pitch for a KK but we found that is the kind of boat we needed. A true "Blue water boat" not a coastal cruiser. Tragedy would be going through all of this and then be limited by the boat we bought. Our boat broker asked us "first decide what you want to do with the boat" and then look for a boat that will do it. If all you want is to stay in sight of land there are a lot of boats that are great live boards, but if you want to go further than that there is another class of boat to consider. A lot of decisions, good luck!

 

[Arch]

Regrets? Not a single one. I sold everything that didn't need to be on the boat, downsized big time. I've been living and traveling full time for the last sixteen months, 9,000 miles plus, and I am enjoying every day. I have more friends now than at any time in my life. I meet new people almost every day.

This is not "camping out". It is living in a small two bedroom, two bath house with a great and constantly changing view. If you want upscale, there are marinas for that. Like camping, stay at a state dock attached to a campground. The "live aboard" life can be anything you want it to be.

Even if it all ended tomorrow, and I truly hope that it doesn't. I would not regret a minute.

Arch

 

[Tony B]

Living Aboard Around 17 Years So Far

never regretted a minute of it. My only regrets are not doing it sooner in life. I am going on 68 and the admiral is 74.

My suggestion would be to NOT sell your present boat first. Live and cruise on it for at least a year or two. Then you will be in a better position to know what your final boat #1 will be.

We started living aboard on a Catalina 25 sailboat and then went to a Catalina 30, which was our final boat #1. It was totaled in Hurricane Katrina in 2005. Then we went to an Allied 39 ketch rigged Sailboat. About 2 years ago, the admiral had come down with a degenerative lung disorder and then thyroid problems. She didn't want sail anymore and didn't want to give up cruising and living aboard so here we are on our final boat #3 in about 12 years time - a Mainship 36 aft cabin model.

Tough it out on your present boat for a while. Then decide on what you really want - at least for that point in time. You will make a much better decision. Each size, whether larger or small, has it's own set of advantages and disadvantages. Only you know what will fit you best.

I will be sending the OP my cell number.

Regards

Tony B

 

[Binford]

Any regrets? Loosing future equity in house is my only BIG hang up.

That would be my big hang-up too. We had a home built on our 5-acre parcel in Port Orchard 14 years ago. Today, despite the economic turmoil, our property value is nearly double our original loan amount. I believe that is fairly typical in most parts of the country. (Such as, I suspect, most parts of Auburn!)

I, too, am considering purchasing a 40-ish footer for a retirement cruiser and as a "transitional liveaboard." In 5 years our home will be paid off and we will be completely debt-free. Our youngest child will also be off to college (paid for Dave Ramsey-style with ESAs and scholarships/self-funding/a job) by that time as well. So between now and then, I am contemplating saving up for the boat.

At that point, my wife and I would rent out our current home (possibly through a property manager) and live aboard the boat for about four years in order to save up enough money to pay cash to build our retirement home on another corner of our acreage. That's the 10-year plan anyway. After that, we'll still have the boat for cruises up the Inside Passage for another 10 or 20 years (unless we're absolutely sick of the boat by then!)

As a bonus, we will still have our fairly large shop as a land base, with a chest freezer, large refrigerator, and ample heated storage. That won't be rented out with the house.

Nothing is set in stone at this point, so I am very interested in learning about people's possible regrets. Though most of the feedback has been fairly positive so far. I join the original poster with appreciation for the insights from those who have done it--the ups and downs that we still on the hard have yet to experience.

Thanks!

 

[henryj2]

Regrets, just one

My only regret is that we didn't do it sooner. We sold a big house, moved half way across the country. 2 1/2 years on the "soft" and it is still sweet. Of course, I have the perfect wife. Never any tension until the heads start acting up. I keep my marine plumber on speed dial.
Good Luck!!

 

[freelancer]

"I wish I would have done it sooner"

I was already convinced I was making the right decision to sell my house (full of this so called equity) and jump onto a boat... self employment does that to you I guess

Just do it, and don't have any regrets. Isn't regret just another form of not being content? If you can't be content with what you have now, I'd say a boat will just make things worse.

 

[Binford]

"I wish I would have done it sooner"

I was already convinced I was making the right decision to sell my house (full of this so called equity) and jump onto a boat... self employment does that to you I guess

Just do it, and don't have any regrets. Isn't regret just another form of not being content? If you can't be content with what you have now, I'd say a boat will just make things worse.

regret
noun
1. a sense of loss, disappointment, dissatisfaction, etc.
2. a feeling of sorrow or remorse for a fault, act, loss, disappointment, etc.

Houses go up in value. Boats go down in value.

That makes a house an investment and a boat the proverbial hole in the water into which one throws money.

I still love 'em though!

 

[freelancer]

Yes, you're correct, to a degree - in regards to houses going up in value (lets just forget the housing collapse). If the economy was predictable we'd all be rich. Besides the point though. I'm not going to wait until my 59 years old, tired, and on multiple medications to enjoy this!

 

[Irish Rambler]

There are lots of wise words and the wisest of all in my opinion is rpeterson's.
Before you start make a 'wish' list of all the features you would like in a boat, then decide your cruising future ground, both immediate and as you get a little older, whichever group of boats fall into your category rent, and try out, different types of boat, ideally for a fortnight until you've got the nearest thing to your wish list.
While doing this go to night classes to learn engine maintenance.
I started preparation some 15 years before thinking 'what if', a divorce tipped the scales and I've been living aboard since 1985.
Good Luck and just go for it.

 

[THD]

Binford-i prefer to think of my boat as a hull in the water that holds my soul.

The most amazing thing to me about boats, when you think about what a large, complex engineering project they are, is that almost all the "stuff" on a boat almost always works almost all the time. It's the "almost" that gets expensive!

 

[psneeld]

Houses go up in value. Boats go down in value.

That makes a house an investment and a boat the proverbial hole in the water into which one throws money.

I still love 'em though!

Out of 6 houses that I owned and lived in or for rental property....I lost money on all of them....more than several hundred thousand. So houses if timing is wrong when selling or circumstances are beyond your control , they are not always moneymaking investments.

It has also been proven that the money spent on improving and maintaining a home sometimes knocks that supposed investment value back to near nothing for some.

life has no guarantees and more and more making money on houses has fallen into that category too.

 

[Binford]

My comment was made in the context of a presumed 30-something selling his house in a flat market, and buying a liveaboard trawler instead. The topic of this thread is regrets, right? Well, I believe there would be some regrets in that case because when that 30-something's retirement comes along in 30 years, what is that house likely to be worth compared with today, and what is that trawler likely to be worth?

That is looking merely at net-worth though. It could well be that in 30 years our 30-something friend is sitting on double his money in a paid-for house, but he never bought his boat. I could see regrets there too.

And since life's apparently over at 59, he'd be too late....

 

[rwidman]

We have been discussing "chucking it all" and buying a live-aboard on and off for two years now. This also means selling or trading in Autumn Dream- she is definitely NOT a liveaboard.
Seems like when work gets too aggravating and winter starts to set in, the discussions begin again.

One thing we don't hear often is from people who did it, regretted it, and moved back ashore. ...........

I recently read a magazine article about this very thing. The point of the article was, it's a bad idea to sell everything and move aboard a boat. The reason being that at some point in our lives we will no longer be able to handle the physical requirements of boating and we may need to be closer to medical care. I think the author makes a good point. We will all either die at sea or move back ashore.

The suggestion was to maintain a small home on land in an area close to shopping and medical care and rent it out until the time comes when you or your partner can no longer handle living on the boat. You will have income while you are boating and a place to come back to for your final years. No moving in with children or living in a small apartment in a bad part of town.

 

[Tony B]

There are lots of ways of looking at gains and losses. Try this one but keep in mind that I am making up numbers for example only.

Lets say your current mortgage is $1200/month. You sell your house and buy a boat with the equity. So now you own a boat that will depreciate.
Now consider that you live aboard in a marina for $300/month. You no longer have your $1200/month mortgage including taxes and insurance. Take the $900 difference and put it into some form of savings/investment. On the surface, the first thing you notice is that you now have $900/month going into 'equity' so to speak. Last month when you had your house only about $100/month went into equity.
Of course these are not real figures because real estate taxes vary from area to area as well as your mortgaged amount and how long your mortgage was for and at what point you are in it. However, you get the idea. Just something else to think about.
The reality is that your are trading your dream house for your dream boat.
Then there is always the possibility that your house could be in a neighborhood that vastly increases in value or becomes the 'hood'. Nothing in life is guaranteed.

So, what do you really want in life and what are you willing to sacrifice to do it?

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

We have been a livaboard since April and have no regrets at all. My wife now calls the boat a floating beach home. Don't like the view, fire up the engines and find a new view. The biggest issue for us was the downsizing. We gave away a lot of stuff to family and friends. Sort of seemed like we were giving our life away. We still have a storage unit that we are still trying to empty and get rid of that cost. It is hard.

But in order to start this new adventure in life we had to pick what was more important, stuff or living on the water. In all fairness though we do own our own dock.

 

[SomeSailor]

I think financially living aboard is a difficult case to close. Real property appreciates. If you are renting a slip you're even further in a depreciation spiral. That being said, waterfront property appreciates even faster, so if you own your slip, and it's paying for itself from the savings gained from living aboard, you might be even further ahead.

BUT... I do business cases for a living. I don't live for a business case. You guys that live aboard make sacrifices, but in the end you're living your dream.

 

[janice142]

I could literally change my whole life by raising the anchor and setting the sails, and did on more than one occasion

This is true... even around the bend in a river offers a whole new view. And yes, with the windlass I do move even small bits simply because I can.

That lesson was one learned when I was a child. The difference when we got our manual windlass meant that instead of taking my dink to the better diving areas we'd move the whole boat.

A windlass makes a big difference in both my happiness quotient and in safety. If the anchor doesn't set well, physically hauling it in and trying again is simple. I realize you're a part of a couple Autumn, but consider you and yours are not getting any younger...

My suggestion would be to NOT sell your present boat first. Live and cruise on it for at least a year or two. Then you will be in a better position to know what your final boat #1 will be.

TonyB is spot on. In looking at Autumn Dream, why not go with her for a time? Things that I considered "totally inadequate" (such as my Haier cube refrigerator) are still working, 6.5 years later. Sure, I'd like a sweet little Engel, but what I have is good enough.

You already have a boat so use her and put money into improving her. Financially you'll probably be better -- far better -- than swapping boats. And too, you'll be able to determine what makes you happiest.

Plus you'll know for certain what doesn't work at all.
If you've never traveled in your Autumn Dream I'd definitely keep her for the near term. Living at the dock is far different than being underway.

Out here, on the hook, I see life far more than when in a marina setting. I prefer anchoring -- even though it is extra work. After all, when the tide changes I have to reposition the sun screens.

It's a tough life Autumn, but somehow I manage.

Binford-i prefer to think of my boat as a hull in the water that holds my soul.

Absolutely... I am happiest in my own world.

I like my stuff and it's all aboard Seaweed. I did not "give up" stuff though Autumn. What I did do is cherry pick out the very best. For instance, I cross-stitch. I got rid of my DMC floss, but kept the silks.

My sewing machine is a Featherweight. And yes, I do quilt aboard. My machine is small, light weight and fits in a dinette bench seat. I do not have a huge collection of fabric any more but I don't miss it either.

So, what do you really want in life and what are you willing to sacrifice to do it?

Exactly. I gave up nothing. Okay, I did give up hot water on tap. I miss that.

And power is an ongoing issue. Still, after the financial debacle (aka two engine swaps in less than a year does not make a budget happy) it's less than a Boat Buck for total power autonomy. First things first though: I need to pay down the bills, you know?

But in order to start this new adventure in life we had to pick what was more important, stuff or living on the water.

Life afloat is for me freedom. I could not be happy in one place forever so having a home that moves allows me to stay as long as I wish and yet be ready to leave at a moment's notice.

I am crazy about putting stuff away -- in a 23' boat I almost have to be if I don't want to live in total chaos. And I'm happy knowing that my home is a tranquil sanctuary. I don't need "more."

As mother used to say "The ideal boat sleeps two, feeds four and drinks six."

Still, when the engine cooperates (soon!) I will always be able to leave in less than 15 minutes. Decide it's time to move on? I've done it in five minutes from decision to anchor up and heading up the channel. Normally though it's about ten -- that's not rushing either.

Making sure the items aboard your boat won't move when rocked is important.

I know from experience the upper level of my DVDs on the bookcase in the galley will shift. That's why I figured out a way to add a fiddle and make them stay put. In normal conditions, I never had an issue. Then came Horseshoe Beach and beam seas, and, well, it wasn't pretty.

Each problem is solved in turn. And I keep lists.
For me, happiness is life afloat.

The details (like mail) are a bit of a hassle. Finding a place to receive mail when underway is the issue. In that regard any mobile person has the same problem. Right now I can go to the local post office and all mail comes to me at General Delivery. I've used marinas, SSCA cruising stations and even a dirt dweller's address I met (via VHF) along a river.

Renew your driver's license before you leave and when it comes due, deal with the problem then. In the meantime, enjoy life from the waterways.

I really ran on at the fingers. If you're eyes made it to the end, Thank you!

 

[mahal]

I would be careful about trying out your liveaboard dream on your current boat or any small boat. Your wife might not like the the cramped living quarters and kill the dream. Heck, you might not like it either. So in this regard, I tend to agree with those that suggested chartering a suitable liveaboard boat.

A suggestion about real estate - consider selling your house and buying a multi-unit rental like a duplex or fourplex using your equity as a downpayment. Multi-units make more rental sense than single family homes. Buying a property for investment purposes is also not as hard as renting your home that you have an emotional attachment to. You can always sell the rental property if you decide to move back ashore.

Years ago, I read an article in our local boating newspaper about a couple that went cruising. They sold their house and when they were ready to move back to land five years later, they found out that home prices doubled, pricing them out of the market. I know - it could have gone the other way, but are you willing to take that chance?

 

[psneeld]

I would be careful about trying out your liveaboard dream on your current boat or any small boat. Your wife might not like the the cramped living quarters and kill the dream. Heck, you might not like it either. So in this regard, I tend to agree with those that suggested chartering a suitable liveaboard boat.

A suggestion about real estate - consider selling your house and buying a multi-unit rental like a duplex or fourplex using your equity as a downpayment. Multi-units make more rental sense than single family homes. Buying a property for investment purposes is also not as hard as renting your home that you have an emotional attachment to. You can always sell the rental property if you decide to move back ashore.

Years ago, I read an article in our local boating newspaper about a couple that went cruising. They sold their house and when they were ready to move back to land five years later, they found out that home prices doubled, pricing them out of the market. I know - it could have gone the other way, but are you willing to take that chance?

But in Detroit the price of homes probably dropped by half.

Not necessarily the best example...but one of many.

Just because you go cruising doesn't mean you close your eyes to what's going on in the world.

Just like living aboard and planning to do it for 20 years actively cruising...you better be funding an engine replacement, genset replacement, major appliance replacement fund along with the hauling, storage and living in a rental/motel while the work is done fund.

You better be tucking away for a replacement vehicle and possibly a tiny rental/buy in full condo/apartment/house when you choose to move ashore...in reality...whats different than living in a tiny apartment or on a boat when you get older? Not that much if it no longer needs to be seaworthy.

And you Don't have to tuck money away for flat out replacement or replacement ever if that is in the cards...no right answer...only what works for you.

....but every financial argument I have ever heard for living aboard or not can be shot full of holes because there's just an endless set of possibilities that are out there.

The trick is if you have some "absolutes"...those have to have a set of plans to assure them.

 

[Skinny]

This thread is an interesting read to say the least. My decision to purchase a boat and be a liveaboard came after having a fiance leave, selling my house, changing jobs, and losing some close people in life. I'm not saying dump your house and move on to a boat, everything should be a calculated risk. Let's face it, the world could implode tomorrow...I'm not going to die wondering what it would have been like to do this or that.

Boats are not investments period. I think if you are wise with your money, your investments should support you if the decision came to live back on land. Real estate can be an investment but for the large majority is not. I'm no six figure income guy but the 99% in this country are the 99% for a reason...they suck at spending/saving money. Your porfolio should be diverse enough without a house thrown in the mix. The house should be a bonus and not an ATM as most have used it for in the past till the bubble popped. If you have everything invested in a house hoping it goes up in value to provide a nest egg in the future, you are on some thin ice.

Buy a Mainship and be happy!!!

 

[ksanders]

If you compare boat ownership with long term home ownership of course there are glaring differences.

But only if you take into account using your homes equity at some point.

My homes value means nothing to me. The value or money tied up in my house is unusable unless I sell it, or I suppose mortgage it. The ONLY benefit I get from my homes apreciated value is the fact that I pay more taxes to live in it.

If you look at a paid for house and a paid for boat and then started comparing costs I don't think the boat comes out too bad. Boats and homes both need maintenance. They both have taxes, and home property taxes are much higher than a boat in general.

Actually if you look at a "nice" boat and a "nice" home, and consider the money you have wrapped up in both you'll probably find that a house isn't such a good deal after all.

Think about this...

The difference between my boat, (which is a great liveaboard size) taxes, and my home taxes more than pays my boats moorage fees.

 

[Autumn Dream]

Hi Janice-
Thank you for all the comments and information - I also found your web site and I am going to check it out. There is a lot of great information there! Autumn Dream is huge compared to your vessel, and everything is truly relative to what any person (or couple!) decides that they need.
For example, for us having a really comfortable place to sit is very important! and yes, I would need to have my portable sewing machine on board... We have a definitive list of MUST HAVES for living on board, and these are very different than the wants for a weekend or occasional week long cruise.

We totally agree on the windlass- last spring we installed a manual windlass and Kevin was absolutely thrilled with the result this boating season- it made anchoring and leaving so much easier for both of us. At 53 and 58, we are definitely aware that we are not as young as we used to be, though we know if we lived aboard, we would be in better shape than being the desk jockey's that we are now.

Our prior two boats were sailboats, and we are not "marina people". We keep Autumn dream on a mooring, and anchor when we take her out. We use her like a sailboat- very stingy with water and electricity usage. We don't like being at a slip - did that for one season with our Jeanneau Espace 1100 and it felt like living in a campground.

Mahal- "I" am "the wife"
Both of us are contemplating this change, and what we are willing to do vs. not willing. Much of it comes down to the "right boat" for how we want to live, can we afford it, and do we want to have this type of lifestyle? We know what we truly want and need to be happy and comfortable - it isn't much, but the list is firm - no compromises.

Right now we are keeping Autumn Dream, and when work permits (next boating season) we will be taking some longer cruises to see how she does. Work keeps getting in the way... Plans are in place to deal with that - but we cannot retire yet.
She does not meet the criteria for a live aboard for us, and that is OK. We are still dreaming and evaluating our long term options.

 

[rpeterson]

Interesting comparison, in this thread about the $$ comparing living on land and in a boat. My two cents, I have lived on land, had a career, owned houses, made money lost money. I have recently retired and am able to buy a boat which I have done, move aboard and cruise. So why wouldn't I?? Because I will loose equity in a house if I sell it?? I will loose money in depreciation on a boat?? If money is your motivation, stay on the hard in your house. And then at that magical age move into a rest home and play bingo. If you want a new life style and an adventure while you are able that most only dream of then forget about the $$, buy a boat move on it, pull up anchor and move on with your life and don't look back. It probably doesn't make sense, but what adventure does in life? Forget about trying to make $$ sense of it. It will drive you crazy and the bottom line is it probably doesn't make $$ sense. But do something crazy, you have worked hard for it and the opportunity to act crazy. You will regret it if you don't when you are setting at that bingo table...........

 

[Autumn Dream]

No bingo!!!

For us - it is NOT about the money, or equity. It is not about comparing a boat to a house, or what is a good investment.
It is about the lifestyle choice... and what do we truly want to do? Stay here, use our boat during the short season, and travel? Dump it all, free ourselves of all the possessions that don't really mean anything to us and live aboard and cruise? ... and get away from winter?

Either way, no bingo is involved!

We just made an appointment to look at one of the potential options... because if we don't start looking, we will never decide.
We are not afraid to make major life changing decisions... this wouldn't be the first. But we are engineers, so unfortunately, there is a great deal of deliberation, almost getting to analysis paralysis at times...

 

[Gulf Comanche]

Engineers, I was raised by one. Lots of deliberation, irritating to one who loves to shoot from the hip (me). He got so much smarter as I got older, sure miss him.

 

[janice142]

Thanks Autumn for the compliments re my website. I'm having a lot of fun with it. And another sewing fan on the waterways is always a good thing. I've got to get the tension on mine readjusted, again. She's a 1937 Singer and is a bit wonky.

I'm a couple decades younger and wonky too. We're well suited.

 

[THD]

Kevin-good points, most of which we have discovered as well. But you forgot the key point-Your boat moves when and where you want it to and a house doesn't.