Anyone cruising in BC now ?

[Bacchus]

TF Members

The Site Team has been busy moving many posts to the Covid-19 Sub-Forum due to the subject matter.
In some cases a relevant boating topic has gotten high jacked /side tracked with Covid-19 replies.
Simply moving these threads will result in meaningful boating discussions getting buried in the Covid-19 Sub Forum that some members are intentionally “Ignoring”.

Where possible and prudent we will edit out Covid-19 replies to leave an otherwise meaningful discussion in the appropriate location.

Members are encouraged to post Covid-19 related opinions and information in the appropriate (Covid-19) Sub Forum but
remember the Community Rules still apply.

https://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/...dme-50057.html

On Behalf of the Site Team

 

[sledge]

Wow!
Guy very nicely asks a simple question and you bunch rip him a "new one". Unfounded personal attack to say the least. Surprised you didn't accuse him avoiding child support at the same time.

Welcome to Canada and I sincerely hope you find pleasure in your limited cruising opportunities this year. Sounds to me like you have been trying to be responsible in fitting in with this rapidly changed world. BC has not required near as much lock-down and tyrannical oppression as seen many other places. We are requested to stay home yet encouraged to get out for exercise including for mental sanity. We are reminded we can meet in small groups if we maintain 6 foot 6 3/4 inches of social distancing. For you mariners in the group, that is about one fathom.
IF you are a business owner THEN you have a whole bunch of other requirements including not allowing gatherings of over 50. Public hysteria and social pressure fills in the rest. There are four categories of people, high, medium and low risk, that are supposed to be quarantined, self isolated and self monitored. Then there's the rest of us who are requested to stay home. If you are elderly or health risk condition you are expected to be even more cautious about contact with others.

And wash your hands!

Fear and Hysteria is rampant and I think that is what you can see in some of these responses. To be totally clear, my comments only apply to the Canadian province of British Columbia. Different restrictions apply in other jurisdictions.

It’s great to see an appropriate post from someone who knows standard courtesy instead of rude, abrupt, or bite your head off style responses. TF is a great forum for nautical information and opinions, it’s just unfortunate when it turns harsh. You could blame this on fear of the virus but sadly, rude rhetoric is not as rare as we’d like on this forum.
On a positive note we’ve been stuck land-locked in the southern U.S. sheltering with family and my experience interacting with others is a very friendly “we’re all in this together” attitude. For many it seems to have also been a sort of wake-up call and an opportunity to reevaluate what’s truly important in life.
Thanks also to Bacchus for pointing out there is a sub-forum for Covid 19 discussion, I hadn’t checked in for a while and didn’t realize there was a specific forum for it.
Stay safe and hopefully we’ll all be back out on the water soon!

 

[Conrad]

It’s great to see an appropriate post from someone who knows standard courtesy instead of rude, abrupt, or bite your head off style responses. TF is a great forum for nautical information and opinions, it’s just unfortunate when it turns harsh. You could blame this on fear of the virus but sadly, rude rhetoric is not as rare as we’d like on this forum.
On a positive note we’ve been stuck land-locked in the southern U.S. sheltering with family and my experience interacting with others is a very friendly “we’re all in this together” attitude. For many it seems to have also been a sort of wake-up call and an opportunity to reevaluate what’s truly important in life.
Thanks also to Bacchus for pointing out there is a sub-forum for Covid 19 discussion, I hadn’t checked in for a while and didn’t realize there was a specific forum for it.
Stay safe and hopefully we’ll all be back out on the water soon!

Very well said.

 

[Deb Jon]

Message from the Canadian Coast Guard

I think the following is pretty succinct and removes any ambiguities, cheers

 

[dirtdoc1]

Kawini

US Documented vessel or Canadian registry? In any event, don't go to WA until border re-opens for cruisers. If you go to WA now and then find you can't re-enter Canada the WA tax guys will hound you to death.

Good point! I deal with that every time I leave the boat in WA for end of the season work.

I'd try to stretch my supplies in a cove somewhere. You're going to expose yourselves and others if you go back to your slip or back across the border. You didn't have any idea that this was happening. It's not your fault that your in a place that many of us would prefer to be.

Enjoy!

 

[roddy]

Kawini,
Welcome to Canada, British Columbia, Vancouver Island and Sidney.
You were in Sidney before the public knew Covid 19 was a serious public health threat.
Your doing your part to prevent the spread by staying put in Sidney.
Covid 19 has changed the definition of normal.
We are lucky in BC to have Dr. Henry, a calm hand at the wheel and well thought out pandemic regulations.
Are they onerous, difficult and unfair? Probably, covid 19 does not respect our democratic freedoms. So we are left with the only tools that work. Social distance and isolation.
Moorage in BC has been a problem for years and is not of your making.
If we were to restrict moorage to residents only this would open up moorage for us.
However how about all the marine trades that depend on our discounted dollar attracting US refits and repairs? Charter operations? Many yachts have full time crews based in here..
We have lack of public moorage facilities. Existing public docks have not increased in 40 years and only handful of private marianas have opened. This is Canadian problem.
Federal governments of all political stripes have crippled Canada's Small Harbours, Tsehum Harbour in Sidney https://haa.bc.ca/south-island-zone/ is a perfect example. BC says its Federal problem, municipalities say its provincial problem.
No level of government wants to spend money on public docks.
Rod

 

[rcsomany]

fwiw...
https://waggonerguide.com/covid-19

 

[C lectric]

fwiw...
https://waggonerguide.com/covid-19

You beat me to it.

 

[MurrayM]

fwiw...
https://waggonerguide.com/covid-19

Thanks for the link, and Waggoner for researching and putting up the list.

Kitimat's MK Bay didn't make the list. Store closed. No transient boats. Fuel sales by phone appointment.

 

[Slider70]

Already this year, the Coast Guard has responded to a greater number of Search and Rescue calls in British Columbia as compared to the same time last year. With each response, our Search and Rescue specialists put themselves at risk of exposure to COVID-19 and use precious supplies of Personal Protective Equipment that is also much needed by critical care workers. Coast Guard continues to work 24 hours a day, seven days a week to keep mariners safe, but unnecessary boating trips increase the risk to our operations and our ability to respond.

I have heard this numerous times this year. OK, let me get this straight. A much, much smaller percentage of normal traffic is on the water but a higher percentage of distress calls needing the Coast Guards Response per the official statement.

That strongly suggest that in normal times MOST responses to distress calls are actually physically handled by other boaters assisting. The Coast Guard mainly is the go between with radio calls. No physical exposure of their personnel.

With the lack of vessels on the water there is obviously far less other boaters to assist and hence the Coast Guard personnel are physically put to work. Perhaps the Coast Guard has got their panties in a knot for the wrong reasons? Perhaps they need more boaters on the water not less to keep the Coast Guard personnel from physical exposure. Further, that physical exposure is not without risk I agree but hardly risk in a major way to the covid-19 virus?

In BC the vast majority of the limited number of people with the virus are in old folks homes, our prison, our meat packing plants and our poor sleeping on the street. Few, if any of those folks are out boating. We need to get a grip on our fears and reality.

Boating in the Salish Sea, respecting proper distancing, anchoring out, going prepared to fend mostly for one's self is a pretty safe process. And you are there to help if someone does get in trouble which I would have no problem doing. I think I understand the risks noting that nothing is risk free.

My thoughts.

 

[Joseph C Buffench]

I concur with Slider 70.

 

[hollywood8118]

Already this year, the Coast Guard has responded to a greater number of Search and Rescue calls in British Columbia as compared to the same time last year. With each response, our Search and Rescue specialists put themselves at risk of exposure to COVID-19 and use precious supplies of Personal Protective Equipment that is also much needed by critical care workers. Coast Guard continues to work 24 hours a day, seven days a week to keep mariners safe, but unnecessary boating trips increase the risk to our operations and our ability to respond.

I have heard this numerous times this year. OK, let me get this straight. A much, much smaller percentage of normal traffic is on the water but a higher percentage of distress calls needing the Coast Guards Response per the official statement.

That strongly suggest that in normal times MOST responses to distress calls are actually physically handled by other boaters assisting. The Coast Guard mainly is the go between with radio calls. No physical exposure of their personnel.

With the lack of vessels on the water there is obviously far less other boaters to assist and hence the Coast Guard personnel are physically put to work. Perhaps the Coast Guard has got their panties in a knot for the wrong reasons? Perhaps they need more boaters on the water not less to keep the Coast Guard personnel from physical exposure. Further, that physical exposure is not without risk I agree but hardly risk in a major way to the covid-19 virus?

In BC the vast majority of the limited number of people with the virus are in old folks homes, our prison, our meat packing plants and our poor sleeping on the street. Few, if any of those folks are out boating. We need to get a grip on our fears and reality.

Boating in the Salish Sea, respecting proper distancing, anchoring out, going prepared to fend mostly for one's self is a pretty safe process. And you are there to help if someone does get in trouble which I would have no problem doing. I think I understand the risks noting that nothing is risk free.

My thoughts.

Great post.. This is the kind of common sense attitude we typically see in our friends in Canada!


HOLLYWOOD

 

[Capt Dan]

Why isn’t Kiwani just fine. They have been quarantined aboard their vessel, I’m assuming just the two of them.

Were all US citizens required to leave Canada. If not and assuming they are on a cruising permit, they are “staying at home”.

I would think the only possible issues at this point would be coming ashore for supplies.

We plan to cruise our boat this summer in Maine, our home waters, and many snowbirds are on their way up the ICW as we speak. Our plans for Nova Scotia and Newfoundland are highly in doubt.

We figure being on the boat is as socially distant as we can be. Gets us out of the picture.

I have not heard what the many Canadians are doing, who usually use the ICW and Erie Barge canal to get home, many from the Bahamas.

 

[Northern Spy]

... I think you will see the border between Washington and BC open before Ontario and New York.

I think the border opening won't happen for a while yet. And all at the same time. Neither Horgan or Ford are keen on it. Besides it is a federal call. I'm thinking between July 1st and 4th.

 

[Capt Dan]

Why would they want to let anyone from the states up in BC? We have botched this thing masterfully, some are quite proud of our successes and we deserve to stew in our own juices.

 

[dirtdoc1]

I think the border opening won't happen for a while yet. And all at the same time. Neither Horgan or Ford are keen on it. Besides it is a federal call. I'm thinking between July 1st and 4th.

Why do you think that the lock down of the border is going to go that long?

 

[Capt Dan]

Why the border will remain closed?

Why would they open it. Everyone is suspect of having Covid19.

States are not encouraging people to travel between states, two examples being Maine and Alaska. Am I wrong that if you go to Alaska that you are asked to self quarantine for 2 weeks? That is the way it is in Maine. Basically the tourist season is going to be a bust. Of course there is no way to monitor that, we all look alike.

That’s the way it is unless we just depend on the good graces of the hospitals and their impending doom.

If anything chances are that due to paranoia in the White House, Canadians will not be allowed entry, so Canada will follow suit.

I hope it is different.

Dan

 

[Capt Dan]

On the other hand, maybe there will be a miracle and it will all just go away.

 

[firehoser75]

Just an observation, I was down at my marina yesterday, which has remained open to transients for the entire time so far. There were 5 visiting boats in the marina, the most I have seen during this pandemic, not surprisingly all of them Canadian flagged. Lots of room for more. Most other facilities (marinas, Parks, etc.) remain closed.

I think the border will remain closed for quite a while yet (unless Mr. Trudeau caves in to pressure from the White House?) because of the "willy nilly" ways some States have reopened. From an outsiders point of view, it does not look like those States are following ANY science nor have they developed and communicated a comprehensive plan to try to control the disease spread. It will be interesting to observe the outcome. As RSN48 has pointed out, we have so far in BC (especially Vancouver Island) been lucky with only a relatively small number of cases and deaths. Until there is evidence of control elsewhere, I think it would be a bad decision to reopen the border, otherwise, all of this effort and pain could be for nothing. JMHO.

 

[MurrayM]

Why do you think that the lock down of the border is going to go that long?

Because the USA has 10 times Canada's population, 20 times Canada's Covid-19 cases, and what appears to be a lower level of commitment to physical distancing policies.

Oh, and there is that second, bigger wave thing this coming winter...

 

[koliver]

I will provide this link for Covid 19 BC. In this link you can break down the geographic areas that the cases have occurred, how many new cases daily, how many in the hospital and how many have died.

BC COVID-19 Data

Vancouver Island is pretty much over the pandemic at this time. New cases are small, a big day is 5, some days zero, other days one or two.

BC COVID-19 Data

May 1 = 1 new case
30 April = 0 new cases
29 April = 1
28 April = 2
27 April = 1
24 April = 4
23 April = 1
22 A = 1
21 A = 7
17 A = 0
16 A = 2
15 A = 3
14 A = 2

The majority of Covid is in greater Vancouver and the Fraser Valley area which is where the majority of the population is. You can also scroll down and see where BC is in relation to many other countries. Hint: the States is way up there on the curve, BC not so much.

I notice people here in Qualicum and Parksville are starting to be less stressed as they should be. I think you will see the border between Washington and BC open before Ontario and New York.

Thanks for that information.

I think the reality is that until the Vancouver and Fraser Health regions can be said to be ready for restrictions to be lifted, the whole of BC will stay under the same restrictions. We in the Vancouver Island Health region can be smug and brag to our friends in the Vancouver and Fraser regions, but we should avoid mingling with them for the present.

Last on the agenda will of course be allowing mingling of those poor folks south of the border. Seattle isn't in good shape at all https://search.yahoo.com/search?fr=mcafee&type=E210US714G0&p=Covid+in+Seattle

 

[soin2la]

Already this year, the Coast Guard has responded to a greater number of Search and Rescue calls in British Columbia as compared to the same time last year….I have heard this numerous times this year. OK, let me get this straight. A much, much smaller percentage of normal traffic is on the water but a higher percentage of distress calls needing the Coast Guards Response per the official statement.

As pointed out earlier, CCG resources are not limited to your south coast and “this year” began on Jan1, not Easter weekend.
https://www.thenorthernview.com/news/coast-guard-rescue-stranded-boaters-from-island/

We in the Vancouver Island Health region can be smug and brag to our friends in the Vancouver and Fraser regions, but we should avoid mingling with them for the present.

By the numbers, per thousand, Island Health has 4 times the number of cases than Vancouver Coastal and twice the cases of Vancouver and Fraser combined.

 

[Nomad Willy]

soin2la,
Population density is frequently to usually overlooked in the States too.

 

[soin2la]

soin2la,
Population density is frequently to usually overlooked in the States too.

Yes and using numbers is frequently to usually a means to an end.

To say " Vancouver Island is pretty much over the pandemic at this time" should be left to our Medical Health Officer not social media.

The post, citing the numbers for Vancouver Island, conveniently left out the same day numbers (May 2) which were readily available at post time and were higher than the previous day.

 

[koliver]

As pointed out earlier, CCG resources are not limited to your south coast and “this year” began on Jan1, not Easter weekend.
https://www.thenorthernview.com/news/coast-guard-rescue-stranded-boaters-from-island/




By the numbers, per thousand, Island Health has 4 times the number of cases than Vancouver Coastal and twice the cases of Vancouver and Fraser combined.

Thanks. I should know better than to just look at the first numbers. Always a better understanding if they get crunched properly.

 

[soin2la]

Thanks. I should know better than to just look at the first numbers. Always a better understanding if they get crunched properly.

And thank you, for your reasoned understanding.

My hackles are raised by people from Vancouver, who rationalize travel to the island because the numbers are low and it is "safer."

Island Health has a rate of 6.4 per thousand while Vancouver Coastal has 1.5.

Cormorant Island has a rate of 1 per thousand, resulting in a curfew and a death.

 

[Capt Dan]

Firehoser,

I can’t agree more. I hate to get political, no I better not. It’s just that in a certain state that I am very familiar with, the redneck non-science troop is challenging the Governor’s powers to keep the state somewhat locked down.

Funny how non-science resembles NON-SENSE.

 

[firehoser75]

Thanks Dan, and also agree about the NON-SENSE part!
I totally understand and am "on side" with the sentiment that "we can't stay locked down forever". However, the just "throw open the gates to the barbarian horde" mentality is just crazy with what we know so far.
For those who use rights to argue for the "open gates" mentality, what about the right of all of the others to not be infected (possibly with life changing permanent issues, or even death) by your actions??? How is your right to infect whoever you feel like more important than the "victim's" right to life and happiness (happiness being not having to suffer this illness in this case)?
If you don't consider these other people's rights (health in this case) when contemplating your actions, then you are extremely self centered and arrogant.
However, we should have good leadership (at all levels - even regular people can be "leaders") which in my opinion should include a well thought out science based plan for reopening, with realistic expectations of behaviour and actions (such as mandatory face mask wearing for all in public areas of high traffic such as stores and transit), testing, tracking, and isolating as needed, monitoring of the plan (results), with adjustments made along the way as needed. Then the plan needs to be well communicated to the public, and followed by everyone (that one appears to be the real stickler) for the overall public good as opposed to the "what's in it for me" attitude.
To me, the above just is common sense. Unfortunately, we all know that it is not COMMON.

 

[rsn48]

Numbers per 100,000 as seen in the charts I provided by the government for BC:

Fraser is 51/100,000 Interior is 22/100,000 Vancouver Island is 14/100,000 Northern is 16/100,000 Vancouver coastal is 66/100,000.

 

[Conrad]

Today the BC government announced some relaxation of the isolation rules. We can now mingle with two to six outside of our own household.
Plus, BC parks will be open for day use come mid May.