Are boats too complicated or we too incompetent?

[Gdavid]

I should feel fortunate that I am limited to old and cheap boat challenges, but this strikes me a pretty absurd. I would expect there to be a pretty simple manner to manually recover from something as inoccous as a malfunctioning swim platform.
While I am slightly writing in jest, there is something that really annoys me about how these complicated boats and incompetent owners on the water today are driving up the insurance rates or insurance availability for the rest of us. I can't help but get frustrated then someone runs their IPS driven boat aground tells me how thankful they are that insurance is stepping up. I would like to decouple myself from this sort of modern boater. I am too young to be this cranky, but am struggling just the same.

 

[ranger58sb]

I've read about this problem. Ours is a different brand, but similar in looks and function. If ours "fell" and remained in the DOWN position, there's a manual solution that might work to raise it. *Not sure if it would lock the platform in the UP position, though.

Raising it would partly depend on where it actually functions (haven't tested that yet), partly depend on whether I'm strong enough to do it, and partly depend on whether sea states cooperate, and/or and whether we could anchor to try the fix or other crew could run the boat in the meantime. Not trivial.

-Chris

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Mr. G. Victims of progress. "New and improved". Modern "conveniences".
AI has been discussed recently as applied to boating. Hold onto your hat, man.

 

[twistedtree]

Why does having it down prevent running the boat? I could imagine it would impede operation, but shut it down completely such that you need a tow? I don't know much about them.

 

[rslifkin]

Why does having it down prevent running the boat? I could imagine it would impede operation, but shut it down completely such that you need a tow? I don't know much about them.

I was wondering the same. I'd expect handling problems with it down, but I can't imagine that would be much better being towed rather than running under power.

 

[Gdavid]

I am guessing there is some kind of safety interlock preventing the main engines from running or being placed in gear while the platform is down. Based on the pictures, where the tow started and the destination, it was very protected and I would assume possible to idle to a dock with the platform down, but I am a stone ager.

 

[High Wire]

That’s a fun mental exercise: “What happens if ____________ breaks?” Fill in the blank: Main engine, steering, generator, dinghy hoist, windshield wipers, drone, swim mask strap.

 

[rslifkin]

I am guessing there is some kind of safety interlock preventing the main engines from running or being placed in gear while the platform is down. Based on the pictures, where the tow started and the destination, it was very protected and I would assume possible to idle to a dock with the platform down, but I am a stone ager.

If that's the case, it's piss poor design. Right up there with some sailboats having the anchor windlass interlocked so it only works with the engine running. I can understand having a warning light and buzzer to tell you the platform is down when the engines are running, but preventing engine start with it down is a terrible idea safety-wise.

 

[chriscritchett]

but preventing engine start with it down is a terrible idea safety-wise.

No, it’s the safest option. Better you can’t move the boat than you run over your swimming guests. And those of us whining about insurance rates because of the other guy have to remember it’s loss of life, not stuff, that gets really expensive.

Total speculation, but I wouldn’t be surprised at all if an electronic safety device was the issue.

That said, some sort of over-ride would be a nice option, kinda like being able to re-start after your fire bottle goes off.

Like some others here, I’m not in the tax bracket to have these worries. Phew!

 

[Gdavid]

I don't fault a safety interlock but question the operator who would call for a tow rather than bypassing the situation. Perhaps I am expecting my same values on others but I really enjoy the independence and the challenge of self reliance that comes with boating. When I see others who are comfortable cutting a check but unwilling or incapable of a little self reliance, it just seems really pointless to me.

I really should shut my mouth before I find myself broken down tomorrow.

 

[psneeld]

For less than $200 a year, buying assistance tow membership gets you a ride home for free for almost any reason.

Seems kinda silly not to have it and use it when in ANY doubt of how malfunctions may go south quickly.

 

[jleonard]

No comment

 

[Retriever]

Personally, mastering boat systems is one of the most rewarding parts about cruising. Few things are as gratifying or empowering as diving into a complex system and solving the problem (or working around it) with only what you have aboard. I can't imagine getting towed in because of a malfuncitoning swimstep, but it probably felt like a major problem for the owner.

I didn't have the benefit of learning boating or mechanical things from my parents. Early in my boating career a bilge pump stopped working. I had no idea how electricty worked, but the mechanic was gracious enough to show me the inline fuse that had blown and how to replace it. Boats have been teaching me lessons ever since!

 

[chriscritchett]

Why does having it down prevent running the boat? I could imagine it would impede operation, but shut it down completely such that you need a tow? I don't know much about them.

Think about the area of ‘thing’ in the water; even at an idle speed of 3-4 knots the loads on the structure and mounting points are going to be very large. Whether or not you do real damage, odds of an easy warranty claim are probably slim to none after you drive with it down. If that’s a concern.

An engineer friend with a Tiara 44 had his platform malfunction in the down position. As I recall he tried motoring slowly since he had somewhere to be the next day, but quickly thought better of it and stayed put for the night. Fortunately he is a marine industry veteran and got the platform manufacturer on the phone to help him troubleshoot and was able to jury rig the situation himself and get home the next day once he could get to a hardware store for the (hydraulic) part.

 

[cfr]

as the boats get bigger and expensive the less experienced operators you find if self operated. to spent a fortune for a boat you need to make a career as lawyers or bankster but not repairing pumps and hydraulics.....so they have a crew or a insurance and a big checkbook. i often meet these guys on big sailboats being doctors etc but helpless to restart an inverter or fix a broken hose because no spares and no tools....... especially on new boats, after 10 years maybe the get better....hard to find a real handyman on a boat above 1 mio.....and yes new boats getting too complicated for one person to handle from simple woodwork via plumbing to a navnet sytem and integrated controls

 

[psneeld]

Unless the platform is directly behind prop(s), wouldn't the forces be the same or nearly so than when towed?

In my experience, having towed the most unimaginable sort of things, trying to drive with the the platform down may have made the boat nearly or definitely unmanageable at slow speeds.

The comment on the warranty issue is a good one. The boat owner may have contacted the company and they said have it towed or face warranty denial.

 

[rslifkin]

Unless the platform is directly behind prop(s), wouldn't the forces be the same or nearly so than when towed?

That was my thought. Unless the platform was so much drag that they couldn't steer under power, I can't see how being towed would be any less stress on things than idling along with the platform down.

 

[Hippocampus]

One possibility I can think of is when towed propulsive force is applied from the front and several feet above waterline. So vessel doesn’t squat at all. Depending upon particulars may even be raised.
When under its own power propulsion is applied from the back and it squats a little. Even at low speeds. One could hypothesize that even minimal squatting there would be more force on its attachments. Would have to see the boat and the device to see if this line of thinking has any justification. I might be blowing smoke.

 

[Adopo]

Both

 

[Mac2]

I blame the manufacturer. The electronic cut-off makes total sense. What I don't understand is why there is not a manual system to raise the platform. We all know every system on a boat breaks. Knowing you are stranding someone if the platform breaks is ridiculous. When I buy a windlass, I look for the manual back-up for when it breaks. You also have the ability to leave the anchor/rode behind and come pick it up later. It's such an obvious issue, it becomes condescending to assume the owner of this type of boat will only be a couple miles from a tow and only go out for day trips. I can't imagine cutting my vacation short to get towed, and line up to get the problem fixed.

 

[psneeld]

Whether under power or being towed.... speed is probably the biggest factor on how a vessel responds and if forces may be similar or significantly different.

 

[rslifkin]

Even if the forces are enough that you wouldn't want to move the boat any distance even at idle speed under power, the lockout is still a bad idea. Think of the dragging anchor situation while the platform is down (even if it can be raised). I wouldn't want to wait until the platform is all the way up before being able to start the engines and react. But the manufacturer has likely assumed that the boat in question will never anchor, and certainly not for any length of time or in less than perfect weather.

 

[porman]

A friend of mine had a Sunseeker with a lowering stern platform. It had a toothed belt drive on each side. One of the belts stripped and the platform could not be raised. There was no emergency procedure to raise it. However he could still drive the boat, so no lockout.

 

[JayB]

Could this be $20 million boat manufacturer lawyer's liability aversion?
Scenario: Hired Captain of LLC yacht may chew up kids still in water if swim platform down. Mfg lawyers discount liability of engines not starting in emergency situation.

 

[rslifkin]

Could this be $20 million boat manufacturer lawyer's liability aversion?
Scenario: Hired Captain of LLC yacht may chew up kids still in water if swim platform down. Mfg lawyers discount liability of engines not starting in emergency situation.

I'd be fine with an obnoxious "platform down" alarm, maybe it even has to be acknowledged before the engines actually start. But to me, anything on a boat that prevents an engine start is a safety hazard.

 

[HeadedToTexas]

For less than $200 a year, buying assistance tow membership gets you a ride home for free for almost any reason.

Yep. This is the same mentality that goes to the ER for a hangnail or a bloody nose. Why bother digging in to the problem if the tow home is cheap and easier than getting your hands dirty?

The systems aboard our boat felt complex and intimidating at first, but I now see how simple, straightforward and serviceable they are. A spirit of self-reliance is important.