Authority Of The USCG Aux

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

The Log Newspaper | California Boating & Fishing News - Ask-the-Attorney-2015-02-27

 

[psneeld]

I will have to see if something has changed since 911, but the USCGAUX as far as I know have little authority....as far as being under the US government blanket protection of liability while in performance of their duties I would agree with.....just too often they overstep their bounds so depending what it is they have done negligently....is worthy of review.

Some quick research revealed that except for a few that receive some special training...which is still very limited in scope....they possess NO authority. Things like fishing vessel examinations yes...but even then only to a degree of what the vessels are really subject to..mostly administrative instead of legal.

I think it is still the same as always...for REAL LE authority...the still need a USCG member on their vessel....but yes they can patrol and shoo boaters out of restricted areas....but have no authority to stop and arrest.

 

[koliver]

In Canada, the Coast Guard Auxiliary (Pacific) is now known as RCM-SAR (Royal Canadian Marine - Search and Rescue). They are a self governing, wholly volunteer organization, operating over 60 vessels dedicated to the SAR function. In addition, there are the Marine Safety volunteers, who do safety checks (Courtesy examinations) with a mandate similar to that discussed in Alaskan Sea-Duction's post above, but in Canadian waters.

 

[kchace]

As a former member of the USCG Aux I can tell you that they have NO law enforcement authority ON PURPOSE and it is even rare for an auxiliarist to participate in law enforcement activities with regular Coast Guard.

When an auxiliarist is performing duties authorized by the USCG commandant, they are covered for damage, injury and liability by the government.

Ken

 

[High Wire]

No real authority unless a regular CG onboard which is very rare. OTOH if they are assisting the CG patrol an event such as maintaining a safety parimeter around a fireworks barge and you tell them to pound sand, then they call the regulars over in their RHIBS who will probably want to talk to you.
The response by the lawyer in the OP link is right on the money.

 

[psneeld]

I don't dispute the lawyers facts...but when I first read it it seemed to suggest the USCGAUX was a bit more than it is.

Unfortunately for every great auxiliarist there are 10 blowhards7 and for every great flotilla there's a few too many old boys clubs.

 

[markpierce]

With the full-time militarization of the USCG when it was became a part of the Department of Homeland Security, I wouldn't be surprised if the Auxiliary has become less relevant to the Guard. Is this so?

 

[Wxx3]

I don't dispute the lawyers facts...but when I first read it it seemed to suggest the USCGAUX was a bit more than it is.

Unfortunately for every great auxiliarist there are 10 blowhards7 and for every great flotilla there's a few too many old boys clubs.

Sad, but true.

But the USCG Aux did enable me to get a lot of on boat/water experience in a short period of time.

Basically your numbers are right on, but is one is motivated, they will find the Flotilla and /or boat/crew that can give them what they want.

 

[psneeld]

With the full-time militarization of the USCG when it was became a part of the Department of Homeland Security, I wouldn't be surprised if the Auxiliary has become less relevant to the Guard. Is this so?

Not sure the USCG is any more or less military than ever, just with the perceived threats after 911, armed patrols became more heavily armed.

The USCGAUX is probably used more as time goes along to do more administrative support and non law enforcement or security issues. I see them and hear them with the same regularity where I am as when I was active duty prior to 911.

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

Deleted

 

[ksanders]

So I'll step in here.

Like others I have a family history with the US Coast Guard. My son served 5 years and my daughter in law is currently an active duty E6.

I asked both of them about the role of the AUX, not just the rules but the feelings of the regular to the aux.

As members of the department of Homeland Security all active duty members of the USCG are considered to be federal Law Enforcement Officers. For example my daughter in law can concealed carry in all 50 states. She is again a Law Enforcement Officer.

The Auxillary and its members are not Law Enforcement Officers. They are not weapons or boarding party trained. They cannot board your boat. They cannot stop you on the high seas.

The USCG in general loves the auxillary. They for very little cost provide visibility in places the active duty patrols cannot reach.

That does not mean there are not individual situations where conflict exists. When my son was active duty, serving on a USCG motor lifeboat he personally observed a situation.

The local USCG AUX leader had and I do not know or remember all the details somehow really pissed off the Senior Chief that was in charge of his station in Oregon. My son remembers his chief in a loud voice telling the AUX leader that if he didn't get his boat out of his way and quit interfeering with his SAR case, he would arrest the aux leader and seize his boat.

I'm sure this kind of situation is uncommon but it echos other situations I have heard of from active duty members, that sometimes a local auxillary flotilla or some people in it, will loose touch that they are not active duty members of the USCG.

 

[psneeld]

Funny how things may have changed...when I was on active duty, unless on a boarding team...you weren't allowed to even possess a weapon on base. It had to be taken directly to the armory for storage till you were leaving the base.

Even flying we were not allowed a weapon for survival purposes except in certain areas and circumstances.

For being in the military and earning top awards in all weapons available at the time...I was always amazed at the USCG anti weapon mentality towards it's members.

Heck, my DEA friends in Miami told me to keep a loaded one under the seat of my truck back in the 80s.

The love of the USCGAUX is definitely hot and cold probably depending where you are and your experiences with them.

 

[bayview]

even their "safety inspection" wont stop a boarding by the real CG

 

[Edelweiss]

The closer you get to the borders, the greater the chance they will ignore the inspection sticker and board you anyway.

While fishing for Halibut within 1/4 mile of the US/Canada border (Middle Bank, San Juan Island) , we were boarded once and challenged two other times, the same day, by federal high speed ribs, Coast Guard boarded, but didn't conduct an equipment inspection, US Border patrol and Homeland Security (which interestingly enough was neither Customs or Border patrol.) The last two didn't board but asked me every question under the sun except the size of my whitey tightees.

Cleary none of them were interested in boat equipment or boating safety.

 

[eyschulman]

even their "safety inspection" wont stop a boarding by the real CG

The purpose of the VSC is not to prevent boarding it is to increase safety by education and compliance to CG standards set to save life's and decrease the chance of injury while on the water. By the way if you have recent Kiddy fire extinguishers with plastic heads check on the internet there is a major recall involving millions of units.

 

[eyschulman]

As to the Aux becoming less relevant far off base. With all the budget cut backs the CG is looking for all the help it can get from a volunteer organization where there are no salaries to pay. Many of the members of the Flotilla I belong to are ex military and take the Auxiliary mission seriously. Much of the Auxiliary work is not visible out on the water and boating safety is the major focus. Law enforcement is absolutely forbidden to the point that an active LE individual can not represent the auxiliary do to conflict of interest issues.

 

[markpierce]

No doubt, these guardsmen handling 30-caliber machine guns, shotguns, automatic 223 caliber rifles, and large caliber semi-auto pistols, are not part of the auxiliary.

 

[Mick Scarborough]

So I'll step in here.

As members of the department of Homeland Security all active duty members of the USCG are considered to be federal Law Enforcement Officers. For example my daughter in law can concealed carry in all 50 states. She is again a Law Enforcement Officer..

Coast Guard may be recognized or declared as LEO but they are far from being LEOs. They lack the training and frankly their powers end on land because that's where the posse comitatus act prevents them from acting as LEOs since they became part of the DOD instead of the DOT. The exception to the act is only for the waters.

 

[ksanders]

Coast Guard may be recognized or declared as LEO but they are far from being LEOs. They lack the training and frankly their powers end on land because that's where the posse comitatus act prevents them from acting as LEOs since they became part of the DOD instead of the DOT. The exception to the act is only for the waters.

Sorry, the USCG is Homeland Security, a cabinet level department, equal to Department of Defense, not part of of it.

 

[Mick Scarborough]

True LEOs do not consider the USCG as brothers. They just don't meet the criteria.

 

[ksanders]

True LEOs do not consider the USCG as brothers. They just don't meet the criteria.

Maybe not.

But on that stormy night, its going to be the United States Coast Guard standing between you and the darkest of times. When your voice comes in over the radio, afraid, and cold, with no hope at all, it will be the members of the United States Coast Guard that will risk their lives to save yours. It doesn't matter how stormy it is. It doesn't matter how dangerous it is. If they can hear you, they will come.

You may not know this, but every member of the US Coast Guard does, its an old tradition.

During recruit training for the US Coast Guard every one of the recruits is marched in the middle of the night out into the surf.

There they are made to take a drink of sea water. They are told to remember that taste, because if they fail at their jobs that is the last taste that someone they could have saved will have in their mouth before they die.

No matter what their mission has become with the current whims of politics and a changing world, the primary thing the United States Coast Guard does is save lives.

There is no nobler calling.

 

[Wxx3]

Thanks Kevin for saying what needed to be said.

 

[THD]

Kevin is correct that the USCG is not included in the provisions of the Posse Comitatus Act. As was noted, it was a part of Treasury when the act was passed and now is part of Homeland Security and thus exempt from the provisions of the Act. Interestingly enough, the Department of the Navy (Navy and Marine Corps) is not included in the Act either. The original Act applied only to the Army. The Air Force was added by amendment in the late 50's. The Department of Defense has by regulation decreed that the Navy and Marine Corps will abide by the provisions of the Act. There are exceptions allowing the use of the armed forces within the US. Some of the older guys here will probably recall that Eisenhower sent US Army troops into Little Rock, Arkansas in the mid-fifties during the school desegregation crisis. The exception used there was one that provides that if a state cannot or will not protect the constitutional rights of its citizens, then the federal government may use the military to do so.

 

[psneeld]

True LEOs do not consider the USCG as brothers. They just don't meet the criteria.

Maybe not in your experience..and maybe not from all local yokles..but many of my friends and LEO brothers are from all sorts of law enforcement.

The Maritime Law Enforcement school that the USCG ran when I went through it was worth enough college credits and practical experience to be considered entry level for some police departments. While not all Coasties go through that school...it was very comprehensive.

Many disconnects between the USCG are over turf wars and pig headedness rather than lack of competency.

Like lots of folks all over, the LEOs I worked with knew that when they were critically injured and no one else was go back get them to a hospital...their best chance was the USCG. Or even just backup in some places we could get to and get there support quick. They may not have wanted us leading an investigation ...but they always would buy us a beer if it wasn't a current turf war hotspot.

 

[IntervaleII]

Here is one who is making sure I don't get to close to the Navy submarine in the ICW.
Hand on the trigger of the gun. Safe to say I stayed clear!


Sent from my iPad using Trawler Forum
Capt. Don

 

[dannc]

True LEOs do not consider the USCG as brothers. They just don't meet the criteria.

Ah, no, that would be incorrect.

Later,
Dan

 

[dannc]

Law enforcement is absolutely forbidden to the point that an active LE individual can not represent the auxiliary do to conflict of interest issues.

Does that mean active LEO's cannot be and USCG auxiliary member?

Later,
Dan

 

[psneeld]

UNITED STATES COAST GUARD AUXILIARY

Based on the above manual..I would say LEOs can join.

If active duty military can...not sure why LEOS cant....there are all sorts of conflict of interest possible....but be a use they are volunteer with no broad legal authority I really don't see it.

 

[hmason]

I had a voluntary safety inspection by the CGAUX. this was the 4th annual inspection on this boat. They picked up something I never knew and I'm wondering if others are aware of this requirement:

The documentation number which is permanently affixed in my engine room MUST be preceded by the designation "NO." And mine were not. The penalty for this "violation" is $10,000! Yes, you read that correctly $10K. And, ongoing daily fines until corrected. Needless to say I have ordered a new number board.

Interestingly this was never picked up in prior inspections.

Howard

 

[Edelweiss]

Does that mean active LEO's cannot be and USCG auxiliary member?

Later,
Dan

That question may vary from State to State and County to County. It's more a question of Agency policy. For Washington State Officers there is no prohibition to being a volunteer member of a volunteer fire department, the USCG auxiliary, Aid Car driver, etc. They don't carry a commission recognized by the state, they don't carry fire arms and aren't considered enforcement officers. Many LEO's are reservists in different branches of the military, even though they do carry arms but this is covered by Federal law.

Law enforcement "cross commissioning" is a thorny issue and usually is only allowed when expressly approved by the Agency chief. Most State LE agencies would not allow a State commissioned officer to be a paid reserve officer for another Agency. (This mainly is an issue of liability.)
But there are many examples of approved cross commissioning. Tribal police officers who also carry sheriff deputy commissions. Some State Troopers and Department of Corrections officers who are also commissioned US Marshals. But these are exceptions to the rule and approved based on necessity.

But keep in mind, there are occupations where their duties are protected by law. Such as a fireman or a flagger directing traffic. They aren't LEO's, but citizens have to obey their lawful directions. Drive across the hoses at a fire scene sometime and see what happens. A complaint to police or the prosecutor will result in charges.