Auto pilot or radar ....

[Joe Pica]

Both are essential unless just doing only local day trips. Autopilot and Radar are essential safety tools for a cruiser. IMHO

 

[caltexflanc]

The more I've pondered this thread, the more I have become concerned that given the cost at which the two items can be had for, if the OP can only afford one, can he afford cruising and boat ownership at all? Even with a 25 foot boat (and a very cool one at that, by the way), the costs of these items are pretty much to the right of the decimal point in whole scheme of things.

I guess I am also concerned that, given the choice, so many people value convenience over safety, but that's nothing new in the general boating population. One of the reasons I value radar so highly is that "they" boat among us.

 

[evansrr]

I’ll take AP

for a boat under 30 feet, cruising Lake Michigan, Upper Mississippi River and other trawlerable places which is more desirable as we can not afford both at one time ... Radar to interface with the GPS or autopilot to interface with GPS?

Looking to update our Acadia 25.

Bob.

I have a newer Garmin HD radar and in over 700 hours of operation I’ve only really needed it two or three times and in those instances the chart plotter with AIS was more helpful. In one case on the ICW in SC the fog was thick but due to the narrowness of the channel other vessels could only be identified through the clutter at about six hundred feet, or about the time I could make them out visually. The thickest fog that I was in was the Chesapeake Bay when I could only see about 20 yards in front of me. My radar picked up a target several hundred yards off the port bow and it picked up the channel buoys but so did my chart plotter. The other boat was identified as a 40’ sailboat which I never did see. As it turns out I didn’t pick up any other boats on radar but I wouldn’t have felt self without it because most recreational vessels don’t have AIS. That said with an 8-10 knot trawler (mostly single hand) I use the AP as much as the water conditions will let me so the hundreds of hours outweighs the one or two hours. I would go with AP first and add radar as soon as you can.

 

[markpierce]

Last week, on the way to boatyard for repair/maintenance, I only had eyes and charts to navigate some eighteen miles or so (Vallejo to Richmond) with fog and visibility as low as half a mile. All my electronics were inoperative (radar, auto-pilot, GPS, depth finder, radio). Reminded me of boating in the 1960s and 80s without modern gadgets.

 

[SteveK]

Last week, on the way to boatyard for repair/maintenance, I only had eyes and charts to navigate some eighteen miles or so (Vallejo to Richmond) with fog and visibility as low as half a mile. All my electronics were inoperative (radar, auto-pilot, GPS, depth finder, radio). Reminded me of boating in the 1960s and 80s without modern gadgets.

must have felt good at the finish knowing you could do it without instruments, I bet.

 

[markpierce]

must have felt good at the finish knowing you could do it without instruments, I bet.

Yes, and made a perfect docking despite failing hydraulic steering and inoperative thruster, too.

 

[Northern Spy]

Autopilot. After all, this is recreational boating.

I use radar, but not sure if I actually need radar.

"Securité" is used by Americans transiting Dodd Narrows.

"Pan Pan" is for fisherman who have run out of gas... and beer... and it's starting to get dark.

 

[markpierce]

I find radar very helpful, among other reasons, for passage from one set of navigation markers to another in very narrow channels, even with GPS, and even in daylight.

 

[Ralsy]

We love our autopilot. Having said that if I had to make a choice between the two, I would have to go with radar since you can always steer the boat but radar is a safety item and I will always lean to safety first. It isn’t like this is a forever choice since you can add the autopilot when you have the funds. But when you need radar, you need it and an autopilot won’t help in that situation. I would get the radar and then learn how to use it. Good luck.

Absolutely agree with Comodave.

 

[rgano]

Quote: We love our autopilot. Having said that if I had to make a choice between the two, I would have to go with radar since you can always steer the boat but radar is a safety item and I will always lean to safety first. It isn’t like this is a forever choice since you can add the autopilot when you have the funds. But when you need radar, you need it and an autopilot won’t help in that situation. I would get the radar and then learn how to use it. Good luck. Unquote


I tend to agree, but here's another point I'd like to expand upon - the AP can be considered a safety item too, in some instances. So there I was alone in zero viz with the radar going; so no visual cues regarding course stability. Thus I am 100% dependent upon minding my compass course and thus paying lots less attention to sounding the whistle (unless you have FogMate or other auto controller), actually looking ahead and listening for other vessels' fog signals while minding the rasdar.

Flipping on the AP made a huge difference; so I have trouble with imagining having a boat with a radar and no managing to get AP installed too. I can imagine having a boat with neither before having a boat with just one or the other. Hock the wife's jewelry or her car or something if 1000 to 2500 bucks is the issue - I have installed AP for both those sums on my and other's boats.

 

[jimdavi]

I use both all the time but for autopilot I mostly use heading hold. You just can’t manually steer as good as the AP. I think you need to use radar regularly so when you need it, you can reliably understand what you are seeing.

 

[rgano]

I use both all the time but for autopilot I mostly use heading hold. You just can’t manually steer as good as the AP. I think you need to use radar regularly so when you need it, you can reliably understand what you are seeing.

I don't feel I need to use the radar all the time to "reliably understand" what I am seeing. I my older Furuno has upteem controls via soft buttons the interrelationships must be understood and remembered; so I feel I need to play with it even in fine weax when I get underway to 1) see that it works ok, and 2) see if I have forgotten any of the complex gain controls. I occasionally got back to the book on this unit because I found some recommendations therein which run a little counter to some very long used procedures for my Navy days.

 

[McDan]

for a boat under 30 feet, cruising Lake Michigan, Upper Mississippi River and other trawlerable places which is more desirable as we can not afford both at one time ... Radar to interface with the GPS or autopilot to interface with GPS?

Looking to update our Acadia 25.

Bob.

Radar would be my choice; it displays things not transmitting AIS data. (like shorelines!) I’d also mention AIS can be adad via a VHF radio (I have one which also feeds to my Raymarine system to display targets on the MFDs) and the radio has a small screen which displays relative position of AIS targets.

 

[Pdxstriper]

if you plan on doing any kind of serious boating, radar is a must have. Absolutely. No question about it. It may just save your vessel and your life.

An autopilot is a nice to have, perhaps even a very nice to have. But rarely if ever does your life depend upon it.

 

[rgano]

Size of vessel has absolutely nothing to do with the need for this equipment. Your boating practices do. Many of us have given our opinions here. Read and decide.

 

[psneeld]

Radar is a safety item in limited visibility...in good vis, it's just a backup.

When you need it, it us just about irreplaceable.....

The trick is as a recreational boater....the VAST majority of the time, one may NOT be in reduced visibility.

 

[Nomad Willy]

Radar
Not having radar can sink your boat an kill you.
The only real reason for AP is to gracefully take a whiz in lumpy going. And convenience.

But if you don’t have two helmsmen aboard ....

We have radar and no AP.
But I should add that we have hydraulic steering. AP would be more useful w mechanical steering as they creep off course.

 

[psneeld]

A lot of things can sink your boat and kill you....

Not having radar is not the direct cause of course....there are other methods to not sinking yourself other than radar.

 

[syjos]

The more I've pondered this thread, the more I have become concerned that given the cost at which the two items can be had for, if the OP can only afford one, can he afford cruising and boat ownership at all? Even with a 25 foot boat (and a very cool one at that, by the way), the costs of these items are pretty much to the right of the decimal point in whole scheme of things.

I guess I am also concerned that, given the choice, so many people value convenience over safety, but that's nothing new in the general boating population. One of the reasons I value radar so highly is that "they" boat among us.

I agree with your pondering.

An AP for a 25' boat is around $1200 and a Furuno First Watch wireless radar for around $850. And if he did not want to use a tablet for a display, a used radar can be found on eBay for around $700.

I would have to have both. Unless I'm in a no fog guaranteed area.

 

[catalinajack]

I have a nice radar and use it when needed, which is rarely. I use my autopilot every time I cruise. I choose autopilot first. We have friends who did the overnight crossing last year from Carrabelle to Tarpon Springs in a Rosborough 25 with no autopliot. The captain spent the last 14 hours, when the seas became rough, hand-steering, a constant and physically difficult task to keep the boat on course. His body was tired and aching and sore from the experience.

I appreciate the quick reply David,

What is more important to me ... I am not sure. I believe radar, as I can see in fog and see other vessels. On the River, staying on course is paramount, being off course a few yards can be the difference between hitting a wing dam or running aground and staying in deep enough water. Radar is great for seeing buoys, Auto pilot is great for staying on course.

I wonder how many people use their radar often vs how often they use autopilot. I likely will go for radar.

Bob.

 

[caltexflanc]

I guess if given the choice between having seat belts or cruise control on a car, most here would choose the former, having never needed the seat belts. Or barring the legal requirement, the choice between spending money on fire extinguishers, PDFs and flares vs a chartplotter, they'd take the latter since they have never had to use the former.

Silly comparison's? Perhaps. But my opinion, so is the choice posed in the OP.

As the gun nuts like to say "Better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it."

 

[psneeld]

I wonder how many here that have been boating for more than 20-30 years were so afraid of boating as being unsafe before small boat radar was really available?

 

[rgano]

I don't consider boating unsafe w/o radar EXCEPT when it isn't.

 

[foggysail]

If you have never used an autopilot, then of course you don't miss not having one. We went for years in our old sailboat without one and looking back, not sure I needed it. The sailboat held its course far better than our power boat which does have an autopilot.

The power boat is a PIA keeping it on a straight track especially when I cruise along at 6-7K on one engine. No way would I part with our autopilot! Personally I would forgo radar for an autopilot because where we travel fog is a rare surprise even though I call myself Foggysail from my old sailboat days.

 

[AKDoug]

And there you have it, a complete hodge-podge of different ideas from many knowledgable sailors. Now you can pick the opinions you agree with, or already had, to make your decision on where to spend your money

As a guy who traveled with dividers, parallels, a paper chart, compass and depth finder through all conditions, long before small boat radar was affordable, I have both. For me, radar is a toy unless you need it, autopilot is a convenience you will use constantly.

 

[Slowmo]

The choice may depend on where and when you cruise. We cruise the PNW in mainly in summer. We use the autopilot (AP) every time we run the boat. The AP is just a huge convenience, it allows me to focus on looking for other traffic and debris rather than the course track. On the other hand, I didn't use the radar once last summer. I also find that radar does not always identify small targets such as small boats fishing very well. In the past it could help you locate landmarks, but GPS is far better for that. If we cruised in winter I might have a different priority, so as I said, I think it is a question of where and when you're using your boat.

 

[thataway]

I have been using auto pilots since 1962, and Radar since 1980 (when it became reasonably affordable. As others, I use the auto pilot when on any long voyage. I spent several months on the upper Mississippi, and doing Cumberland and Tennessee rivers in their navigable lengths. I did this without auto pilot, but had Radar. Never used the Radar on the Tenn and Cumberland Rivers, once on the Mississippi. I would say that getting AIS receiver is also very high on the priority and relatively in-expensive.

I did put an auto pilot on the current 25' pilothouse boat this last year--and used it every day on the rivers. I have radar mostly because I run at night. So figure how much you will use each--and act accordingly.

 

[Portage_Bay]

I wonder how many here that have been boating for more than 20-30 years were so afraid of boating as being unsafe before small boat radar was really available?

I'll bite. Yes, I pre-date radar and autopilot on small boats. On the work boats we got radar before auto pilot, employer's choice not mine. So I can get along fine without either or both. But I sure don't want to. I want BOTH. And GPS. And a plotter. And AIS. All important to safety and enjoyment.

 

[caltexflanc]

We had our first"real" boat, a Tollycraft 32 when we lived in Seattle 42 years ago. We only had an old fashioned flashing depth sounder and a radio. Plenty to do with a boat inside the locks in the city and Lake Washington. We never went out on the Sound at night or in bad weather, especially fog (including inside in that case).

A man's got to know his limitations, of which I have many. And no, I'm seldom "feelin' lucky".

 

[Portage_Bay]

I remember flashing sounders. But not with any fondness.