Auto Start Gen?

[Yachtman]

Hello all,
Does anyone have their generator using an auto start feature that will start a generator when the shore power goes off? We have two parrots, and a dog/s and the ensuing heat build up inside the boat due to no air conditioning running would/could be detrimental to their lives. Especially the birds, (even after a few hours in 90 degree heat). We’d be live aboards, but if we’re out touring the sites till late in the evening..... well, let your imagination wander. Yuk.
Thanks!

 

[BruceK]

Maybe train the parrots and/or the dog to turn on the genset if the AC goes off. Sorry.
I don`t like the idea of a self actuating genset. It could go rogue, there could be other complications.
On my boat with an Onan EQD, I have to do some quite deliberate switching to change from shorepower to genset, and vv. There has been a thread about this before, might be worth a search, it`s a while back, worth a second look anyway.

 

[Comodave]

I don’t like auto start genset either. Maybe have an alarm that notifies you in case of a power outage?

 

[Andy G]

"the ensuing heat build up inside the boat due to no air conditioning running would/could be detrimental to their lives. Especially the birds, (even after a few hours in 90 degree heat). We’d be live aboards, but if we’re out touring the sites till late in the evening..... well, let your imagination wander. Yuk."

Sorry, I couldn't resist.

 

[Mobcat]

It’s possible the surest way is to run all your power needs through a Victron Quattro and use the relays on the Quattro to switch your gen set on and off at a pre determined volatage or state of charge.

 

[magna 6882]

I was wondering the same thing. On our motorhome the genset start with low battery's and charges them and will also run when shore is lost.It also monitors the thermostats and if cool air it starts and runs the ac. when the ac stops then gen cools then shuts off. I notice the boat were buying has a manual battery switch. The motorhome has a latching relay called a transfer switch. I am wondering if at anchor and on battery's do they last all night and when there deed there goes the bilge pumps

 

[OldDan1943]

Years ago, I asked 2 questions. One, using two smaller generators, auto start and auto parallel.

The 2 smaller generators, auto parallel was tried, I was told and it was unreliable. Plus the fuel saving was minimal.

Auto start seems to work well on air cooled RV generators but, when it comes to boats, we use water cooled generators..... If we lose cooling, we hope it will shut down and save the generator.

I am sure you could find an auto start circuit for you generator. I suggest you start with the generator's manufacture.... Listen to their advice.

Per your birds and dog.... get a baby sitter who knows how to start the generator, if necessary.

 

[High Wire]

Auto start also means automatic transfer switches. A little more complex than a voltage sensing relay to bypass the start switch. Just saying.

 

[OldDan1943]

Auto start also means automatic transfer switches. A little more complex than a voltage sensing relay to bypass the start switch. Just saying.

There are plenty of home based generators that are auto start and auto transfer installation systems. We see ads for them on TV. I am not sure if there is an application designed for marine use.
There are plenty of commercial installations too. Alas, some idiot usually installs them in an area prone to flooding. Plus they are not designed to pick up the entire load for a hospital or other commercial installations.

 

[mvweebles]

Auto start also means automatic transfer switches. A little more complex than a voltage sensing relay to bypass the start switch. Just saying.

Excellent observation! I was about to post my experience with Victron vs Magnum auto-gen-start switches (AGS), but saw your post and realized you're correct - transfer switch is needed vs AGS. AGS can be configured to start generator based on two parameters: low voltage, or ambient temperature. They would not switch power source from shore power to generator - you would need a Transfer Switch such as this one.

Does anyone know if the newer Hybrid inverters would work? My understanding is they allow temporary stacking of power sources to buffer. Example would be that if a user has a 30A shore power connection and often trips it using the microwave. The hybrid inverter can be configured that if greater than 28A are drawn, the inverter will pull the overage from battery bank and avoiding the walk-of-shame to reset the breaker. Perhaps with use of AGS, that could round-out the overall system?

Setting aside sensibility of having a generator start on its own, an interesting topic.

Peter

 

[twistedtree]

As alluded, starting and stopping the generator is the easy part. Power switching is the harder problem to solve.

If the loads you want to power are on an inverter, many inverters will sense the AC input and do the switching for you. But loads like AC are seldom on an inverter.

Also, unlike a house where there is a single grid power source, boats often have multiple shore power sources, with loads divided up in countless different ways. That can make the automatic power switching a lot more complicated.

These are all solvable problems, but the solution will be very specific to the boat and how it’s power system is set up.

 

[Ventana]

Mastervolt makes auto switching units for the marine industry. Autostart is usually pretty easy, depending on the generator model.

https://www.mastervolt.com/products/masterswitch/

BTW I have a Masterswitch unit for sale, it was posted quite a while back in the classified on this forum, but I just found it again in storage.

 

[Lepke]

One problem with losing the load before the generator starts is some appliances may need a reset because of a low voltage safety. So the generator comes on but the AC just sits there.

With the right inverter, the load is never lost. Power passes thru the inverter. When voltage drops the inverter switches to battery and maintains the load. Clocks don't stop. If the battery becomes low the generator is started and the inverter switches to charging. When shore power is restored, the generator is shut down.

 

[Ski in NC]

I'd rather have some sort of monitoring system that looks at temp and/or volts and sends an alert to your phone. Boat gennies are trouble enough without adding another layer of complexity such as auto start and auto transfer.

 

[tiltrider1]

The Trace SW2512 is wired straight to the shore power and the generator. If it losses power on one it starts the generator And switches the loads. No need for a Shore/Gen switch. You can stack them if you run 50A 125/250. You can also put relays in down stream if you want to drop loads during the time on battery.

 

[Yachtman]

Thanks for all the great tips on this subject.
Pet sitters have typically been first on the list. We’ve been using them for the past 25 yrs. But relying on one for the switching and starting of a gen in the engine room of a yacht is tough. Hence the reason for the question. Some motor coaches have auto gen start, which is fantastic because a motor coach will heat up really fast.
I’ll read some of the suggestions above.
Thanks again!!
��

 

[BruceK]

Hospitals have backup gensets with autostart. It needs to work near seamlessly or bad things could happen. But they probably spend big $ getting it 100% right. Or they should.

 

[OldDan1943]

Hospitals have backup gensets with autostart. It needs to work near seamlessly or bad things could happen. But they probably spend big $ getting it 100% right. Or they should.

We all know what happened when a assisted living home does not install a back up generator.

 

[bluebyu]

Hospitals are slightly different, critical loads will be powered by an UPS.
With loss of power, the transfer switch may take 5 to 10 seconds to resume ac power. The transfer switch is also the system that starts the generator.

 

[Group9]

We have a Xantrex control panel that has an auto start feature for our generator. I only cut it on once, to test it, and it worked as advertised.

I just don't like the idea of my generator starting up on it's own when I'm not around, but I could see situations where it would be advantageous.

 

[O C Diver]

I guess if I were heading down this road, I would have one smaller AC in a lower part of the boat, run through the inverter and set at 80 degrees. If the animals are there and the power goes out, a good size battery bank could maintain an 80 degree room temperature for numerous hours without running the generator.

Ted

 

[Group9]

I guess if I were heading down this road, I would have one smaller AC in a lower part of the boat, run through the inverter and set at 80 degrees. If the animals are there and the power goes out, a good size battery bank could maintain an 80 degree room temperature for numerous hours without running the generator.

Ted

When I was living on board, with my cat, I used to just leave hatch door cracked open a few inches, knowing he could squeeze out and wait on the deck if the AC quit.

Of course, my harbormaster did have to fish him out of the water one night.

 

[Scottwb96]

I have an AGS for my Magnum. I LOVE IT! I never have to worry about my batteries and the possibility that I ran them too low/hard. The Magnum has quite a few different setting options that allow you to dial in how you want the AGS to work. That being said, I also have a manual transfer switch, so in my case, if I lost power at the pedestal, my batteries would slowly drain. Unfortunately, my AGS would kick the gen on, but it wouldn't actually be doing anything since I would still need to switch from shore-to-gen. I have, as someone else posted, added a cheap little battery monitor sensor. It has email/SMS capabilities, so at least if it happens on shore, I will get a notice that my batteries are getting low. Happened a couple times during winter when the power went out, came back on. Tripped breakers at the marina...
The earlier post about the Furrion relay looks very appealing. For $100 or $200 depending on your power set up, looks to be one of the "cheaper" upgrades to the boat.

 

[dutch-barge]

I have one instal with a Victron Quattro and one with a parallel Victron multi, both are set with starting the generator when shore power fails, or the SOC gets below 75.

works like a charm

In addition each boat also has a Victron Venus, with notifies me when the shore goes out and when the generator starts, no matter where in the world I am

Plus It warns me when the bilge pumps turn on,

 

[Mobcat]

Hi Dutch what make of genset are you starting are they a pulse or switch type ?

 

[dutch-barge]

one is a Fischer Panda. another is an old one and I havre NO clue what the make is. but it has a remote start button which I connected to the Victron to start when the SOC fans below a set point and there is no shore power

 

[Yachtman]

Dutch barge, thanks for that info. It sounds like a great set-up.

Thanks again everyone. ��

 

[Bduffey]

The Siren Marine Monitoring system watches your shore power and temp of the cabin. You will get an alert to loss of shore power as well as an alert for temps outside of a range you set. It monitors additional items; high water, bilge pumps, GPS geo fence, doors ,etc. We have one on our Defever trawler and it has been a stress reliever being able to log on and check critical items from anywhere.

Safe Travels

 

[dutch-barge]

@bduffey
Same functions as the monitoring units of Victron, is it also free ? Meaning no monthly charges?

 

[rgano]

I would open the boat's every door and window and leave a fan or two running before I would have an auto-start genny. The animals should be OK, and you would not have the anxiety over their welfare in the event the genny did not start due to some setting you forgot worry over all the other potential bad things which could result from an unattended genny. I never leave the boat with a genny running for more than a few minutes, and I am within sight of it.