Average costs of land living to boat living

[psneeld]

RV sure looks less expensive, but then cruising a boat is a pretty high bar. A friend recently purchased a new $450k 36-ft motorhome. Looks like that is well above the median spent on a motorhome. $450k wouldn't come close to buying a comparable trawler. He pays $500/mo for indoor climate controlled storage. No diver needed. That said, many other costs are similar. Insurance. Diesel mechanic. Systems' technician. $/night in a decent RV park is roughly in par of a transient berth.

Sure it depends. But for the average schmoe on TF who isn't an outlier in either direction (e.g. the 80%), many fewer surprise expenses with a motorhome than a boat. Unused, a boat has a higher burn-rate than an RV.

I just went from living aboard to mostly RVing....

I just deleted 4 paragraphs because I find it no use arguing as there's always something to point out for either side and that is exactly my point and where I am leaving it.

There is already a thread so far (and many before) that points out fallacies and truths on both sides.

Heck...just re-reading...someone pointed out no "free docks" or "city anchoring"... obviously hasn't cruised the East Coast lately.

Please continue on with just another TF discussion.

 

[mvweebles]

I just went from living aboard to mostly RVing....

I just deleted 4 paragraphs because I find it no use arguing as there's always something to point out for either side and that is exactly my point and where I am leaving it.

There is already a thread so far (and many before) that points out fallacies and truths on both sides.

Heck...just re-reading...someone pointed out no "free docks" or "city anchoring"... obviously hasn't cruised the East Coast lately.

Please continue on with just another TF discussion.

Either can be done ultra-cheap. Streets of San Diego have 100's (1000's??) of parked RVs alongside homeless encampments. Heck, a pop-up travel trailer in full living mode has been parked at the Home Depot in Chula Vista for a week!

At the other end of the economic spectrum, not hard to spend $200/night for an "RV Resort," more than what a nice marina for a night might be.

So yes, there are always exceptions - outliers that fall outside the normal distribution. The "80/20 Rule." Presence of outliers (20%) does not invalidate a hypothesis (80%).

Peter

 

[Slo-Mocean]

Spending by cost category is an interesting topic.

One category not often mentioned in news articles is one that drives me mad. My cost of connectivity has gone through the roof over the years.

A new iPhone will run you $1000 to $1500, which is nuts. You can set up a good desktop PC system for that. TV's and DVD players are now super cheap, but connecting them to the world is out of control. Internet connection, then a list of subscriptions to satisfy my movie-loving wife and it adds up fast.

Add phone / internet / TV connectivity together and I bet it approaches my grocery bill. Part of that is a function of 2 dirt homes that need 2 sets of subscriptions on some stuff. I'm about to cull that stuff down pretty hard.

Its the small things that you don't focus on that eat me up. Last night I went to dinner with some friends, to a basic local decent spot, where the typical entre was probably $25. When my bill arrived the drinks cost equaled the food cost, and I didn't hit the drinks too hard. That didn't use to be the case not that long ago.

I'll never figure out why everyone has to have the latest and greatest 1000-$1500 Iphone. My wife and I were discussing this last night after I had just been ridiculed by the Amazon driver who I got into a Whole nother story and he immediately mocked my poor azz because of my old Iphone 8s . I'm on my 4th iphone in 5 years as I am hard on em but I buy them for peanuts and always have a backup for mine and my wifes iphone.

I over the road truck and with unlimited Verizon for $100 a month, I tether my Iphone to the TV by a Lightning cable and I watch Tubi,Amazon Prime and Net Flix for another $25 a month and with a good antenna watch multiple local stations . I than use my iPad to surf the net tetherd to my phone so for $125 I am fully entertained and have service 99% of the time.

 

[Don L]

The Bureau of Labor Statistics says the average retired 65 year old spends $4345/mo and that 75% are on 4 things. My avg for the last 7 years comes out to $4,181 so I wonder how their land number and my boat numbers for 2 people compare.

Housing - 36%. When I add up our boat maintenance costs, marina, electric and insurance I get that it is 30.5% of my total spend.

Transportation - 13.7%. Our land transportation and travel costs work out to 9.4% of my total. If I add boat fuel in it becomes 11.9%

Medical - 13.5% (shocking isn't it). Our out of pocket costs come out to 3.8%. But if I do the true cost including the subsidy we get that cost would be 37%.

Food - 12%. I don't have just a food cost tracking, but I can make a good guess based on our general expense category, which is 26% of our total. I feel our food costs to be around 22%.

Just for thought.

There appears to be cofusion on this thread. The above are FACTS. Government number compared to my real recorded numbers.


I definitely not looking for any advise

 

[psneeld]

No confusion...and no one is really giving advice......

 

[Muirgen Afloat]

No confusion...and no one is really giving advice......

Conversation.. and opinion maybe.... I'm enjoying people's experience on their expenses of living on a boat. Very interesting on the facts on what the government statistics are to compare. I love talking with different boat owners.. amazes me how different we are on what we think "living" is.

 

[Muirgen Afloat]

Not quick enough it would seem :lol:

:lol:

 

[Benthic2]

I don't think you can compare the two lifestyles because of the square footage. I'd guess a small 1 bedroom apartment would be at least 750 square feet and a modest 3 bedroom home about 2,000 sqare feet. A boat with comparible living space to even a small apartment is going to have to be 50+ feet.

 

[Don L]

modest 3 bedroom home about 2,000 sqare feet.

you think a modest 3BR house is 2,000 SF

That says a lot for this thread. No one in that average 65 year old retiree group is living in a 2,000 SF house probably.

 

[psneeld]

They might be if still living in the same house for the last 40 years.

And now with maybe low housing costs spend an inordinate amount in another area.

 

[mvweebles]

QUick Google showed median size is 2000sf. Yet this CNN Money article shows it's over 2500 sf (maybe thats mean vs median??).

Peter

 

[Slo-Mocean]

Own Outright our nicely updated by me 1100sqft 2/2 condo in a modest community very conveniently located in Naples Fl that just appraised for quadruple what we paid and remodeled it for 12 year ago.

Taxes $411 a year, gotta love Florida homestead. Our house in Michigan homesteaded is a 1/3 of the value and 6 times the taxes.

Interior insurance $657

Hoa just went up for the second time and is $440 a month but includes Exterior insurance /water/sewer/trash/cable and internet also both pools and lawncare plus reserves.

Electric averages $1200 a year .

All in $629 a month, dirt cheap living with a nice return.

That doesn't even cover current dockage in front of a home that I can't stay on the boat.

 

[PierreR]

you think a modest 3BR house is 2,000 SF

That says a lot for this thread. No one in that average 65 year old retiree group is living in a 2,000 SF house probably.

You are probably right. In my neighborhood the average age is probably 70 and there is no house in this neighborhood as small as 2,000 sqr feet.

 

[psneeld]

Staying in a community in Fl with mostly retirees, this community is around 600 homes and most are all under 2000 with the original build sizes around 1500 sq ft.

 

[Benthic2]

I think we have to remember our statistics classes. What answers you get to a question depend on who and where you ask the question. If you ask around the country club what an average size boat is, you might find an average of 45 feet. If you ask people in Walmart you might get an average of 20 feet. "Average" is a pretty useless statistic. I had a professor that used to say if you had one foot in a bucket of boiling water and one foot in a bucket of ice, the average says you should be comfortable. ( I know the math doesn't quite work out...but it is a very illustrative way to point out that average is not a good basis for much of anything )

 

[GrandWood]

I'll never figure out why everyone has to have the latest and greatest 1000-$1500 Iphone. My wife and I were discussing this last night after I had just been ridiculed by the Amazon driver who I got into a Whole nother story and he immediately mocked my poor azz because of my old Iphone 8s . I'm on my 4th iphone in 5 years as I am hard on em but I buy them for peanuts and always have a backup for mine and my wifes iphone.

I over the road truck and with unlimited Verizon for $100 a month, I tether my Iphone to the TV by a Lightning cable and I watch Tubi,Amazon Prime and Net Flix for another $25 a month and with a good antenna watch multiple local stations . I than use my iPad to surf the net tetherd to my phone so for $125 I am fully entertained and have service 99% of the time.

I’m on my second iPhone, I had a iPhone 5S when they first came out, AT&T sent me a new iPhone 8 last year they went to 5g for free. I’ve bought one iPhone in my life. Ive never owned any other.

I use Roku for tv, I have the first Roku unit they ever put out, still does the job. Yes I have to reset it every now and again as it craps out not being able to keep up with the stream. Zero subs, I pay for internet and that’s it. Plenty to watch free on all the free channels on Roku. I prefer to read most of the time.

I live as cheap as possible, and will continue to, I don’t need the latest and greatest to enjoy life. On a new moon spend the evening looking at the sky instead of farking Nutflix. Amazes me how many people never even look up at the sky at anytime, face planted in a tv,iPad or phone.

 

[SteveK]

you think a modest 3BR house is 2,000 SF

That says a lot for this thread. No one in that average 65 year old retiree group is living in a 2,000 SF house probably.

Yes, My 2500SF million $ house is modest, average or above average among my peers.
I really do not know how the younger ones will afford a home, let alone a boat in 10-20 years. Unless they inherit from this dying out breed of oldtimers, or is that alzheimer's, I forget.

 

[Delta Riverat]

Still living in the same 1400 sq-ft, no additions tract house I bought 45 years ago.

But I did put in 3 Tuff Sheds. Wifey has her she (120 sq-ft) shed, we have a storage (108 sq-ft) shed and I have my tool (48 sq-ft) shed in the back yard.

Nah, we're never going to do the live aboard thing, not enough space. But looking forward to "vacation" cruises -

 

[Simi 60]

Yes, My 2500SF million $ house is modest, average or above average among my peers.
I really do not know how the younger ones will afford a home, let alone a boat in 10-20 years. Unless they inherit from this dying out breed of oldtimers, or is that alzheimer's, I forget.

Which demonstrates my continued claim that a decent sized boat is more often than not cheaper than a house

My dung heap of a house bought in semi industrial area to build a boat in the back yard is near enough a million now. (If a water view property easily 2x more)
Space wise it's comparably to our boat
Repayments on it would be $4200/MTH
Plus rates, electricity, water etc etc let's say $5000/MTH

The deposit alone for that home would buy our boat for cash
The marina we are in now with a free bus to the CBD is $1600/MTH
That includes electricity, water and no rates.

That's $3400/MTH difference
$40,800/year saved if we treated it like a house and never moved

Tell me again how land living is cheaper than dirt living?

 

[ranger58sb]

... and a modest 3 bedroom home about 2,000 sqare feet.

The modest, 3-bedroom/1-bath house I grew up in was about 1300 square feet.

Boatloads of similar houses in that neighborhood and similar areas throughout that city... and probably Everytown, USA...

-Chris

 

[tiltrider1]

Tell me again how land living is cheaper than dirt living?

It’s very simple. You buy a 4 plex, live in one unit and rent the other 3 out. Now you are living for free.

Or

Buy a tent and join a homeless community.

Maybe in other parts of the world you can live at the same standard on a boat as on land for less money. Here in the PNW you will pay a premium to live on boat.

 

[mvweebles]

Simi60 has his living situation down pat. A good example if so inclined and okay with full time anchoring out.

The one flaw in his reasoning is he only uses purchase price in equation. Ignores salvage/resale value. Not sure how long he's owned his boat, but let's say 7 years and has $200k USD into it. Today, he might get $150k after a lengthy listing period (all guesses. No idea actual market).

Suppose instead he bought a condo 7 years ago for $200k. Probably worth $600k or more today.

Granted, last seven years has seen extraordinary appreciation in housing. But as a general rule, housing is a good savings account for most people.

That said, I sure appreciate Simi's perspective. It's rare but deserves consideration.

Peter

 

[Don L]

face it

Owning a boat AND a home (renting or owning) at same time is a poor use of money.

I am more concerned about cash flow than I am in asset growth. I know I could sell my boat and buy a small house here in Jacksonville Fl and that would save me $367/mo.

It matter nothing to me that the boat depreciates (it has pretty much stopped that) and a house appreciates. In either case neither really matter without considering the new costs of selling each.

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Apologies but this came to mind...

 

[psneeld]

Wow.... some of the most narrow minded views on a subject I have read on TF.

Hardly a one is apple to apples and in reality....how can it be once someone introduces what they "prefer".

I can see it either way...am I the only one who has stayed in dumps and mansions....river marinas that rent for near nothing to expensive yacht resorts...seen $1m Rvs and multi-million $ yachts and people living on who knows what they are "boats" and wrecked RV's in places for basically free rent?

I don't think I am.... but this thread keeps going back and forth on what Peter (M/V Weebles) describes as outside the standard deviation or two lifestyles and he is correct...but they do exist. So until people start only discussing cheap to cheap and rich to rich and average to average and limit each shot to those... how will anyone agree? Good luck on even agreeing what is "equal" living.

 

[ranger58sb]

face it

Owning a boat AND a home (renting or owning) at same time is a poor use of money.

For some, maybe. For you, apparently, since you say so.

Not true for everyone. Money's often just a means to an end, and using it effectively to achieve that end can be just fine. Not everyone has the same "ends," of course.

-Chris

 

[tiltrider1]

Wow.... some of the most narrow minded views on a subject I have read on TF.

Hardly a one is apple to apples and in reality....how can it be once someone introduces what they "prefer".

I can see it either way...am I the only one who has stayed in dumps and mansions....river marinas that rent for near nothing to expensive yacht resorts...seen $1m Rvs and multi-million $ yachts and people living on who knows what they are "boats" and wrecked RV's in places for basically free rent?

I don't think I am.... but this thread keeps going back and forth on what Peter (M/V Weebles) describes as outside the standard deviation or two lifestyles and he is correct...but they do exist. So until people start only discussing cheap to cheap and rich to rich and average to average and limit each shot to those... how will anyone agree? Good luck on even agreeing what is "equal" living.

You are right. This is a rather silly discussion. The original post was about living at an average expense level while maintaining what the poster thought was a superior life style. I say Bravo to him for managing his life around what is important to him.

I picked this life style not because it’s cheap but because it makes me happy and I don’t mind spending extra to do so.

 

[Don L]

I can not really believe how this thread has gone. This will be a first for me, a thread I started that I am going to unscribe from and then place on ignore.

 

[psneeld]

Data points are useful and some will get something out of them.

But to think they are more than a data point in a field of data... well ya know what they say about expectations.

 

[PierreR]

For grins I roughly added up the house and the boat. For starters I live in one of the cheapest suburban housing markets in the US. North East Ohio. I live in a 2,500 sqr foot house with 1,600 sqr foot attached hanger in a fly in subdivision with access to an all weather paved runway. We don't live on the boat at present.

House is entirely paid for
Costs add up to about $1,300 per month.
Boat is entirely paid for Hatteras 42 LRC
Costs add up to about $1,450 a month.
Selling either one would roughly half my cost.
I ain't sellin. I would be breaking the tradition. There has not been a house sell in my neighborhood through a realtor in 20 years. All homes have sold at auction from the estates.