Avoiding snubber acrobatics

[HeadedToTexas]

While there may be some charm in watching my mate wrestle with the snubber while hunched over the pulpit, there is far more value in avoiding what seems like an inevitable injury that stems from deploying the snubber. Surely there is a convenient way to deploy the snubber without tempting fate?

 

[markpierce]

High, strong railings should be sufficient. If there is still a danger, have the snubber-deployer fastened to a secured rope (although I haven't yet seen the need).

 

[Comodave]

I deploy the snubber instead of her doing it.

 

[HeadedToTexas]

I deploy the snubber instead of her doing it.

Noble, and likely wise for me too, but I'm far from immune to injury. My back hurts just thinking about it.

 

[janice142]

I attach mine to the chain just forward of the windlass. Then I let out more chain. The snubber feeds through the bow roller just fine.

I bought and like the Mantus one. It is strong and won't come off until I remove it. There is a plastic shield gizmo that keeps it secure to the chain. Prior to the purchase I simply used a rolling hitch. That worked too.

 

[dhays]

Not sure I understand the wrestling or the risks. What about setting the snubber is a problem?

On my boat, I do have to bend over and reach around the anchor roller. I don’t bend over very well, but it isn’t really very hard. Maybe you can describe how it works on yours?

 

[sunchaser]

When I’m no longer capable of handling boat chores like anchoring, is the day the boat sale efforts commence.

 

[Peter B]

I attach mine to the chain just forward of the windlass. Then I let out more chain. The snubber feeds through the bow roller just fine.

I bought and like the Mantus one. It is strong and won't come off until I remove it. There is a plastic shield gizmo that keeps it secure to the chain. Prior to the purchase I simply used a rolling hitch. That worked too.

Like Janice says. Just one decent snubber - forget fancy bridles. Easy peasy.

 

[psneeld]

Like Janice says. Just one decent snubber - forget fancy bridles. Easy peasy.

+2 on Janice and Peter's single snubber tied with a rolling hitch for me....

Long term or heavy weather above 30 knots brings out different tactics.....which is rare for me.

 

[caltexflanc]

I used the snubber over and through the roller technique quite a few times, typically using a rolling hitch, before a buddy gave me a bridle.Works best if there is a center line cleat or Samson post that avoids having to wrap around the windlass. The things I don't like about it are 1) it still puts pressure on the pulpit and 2) introduces chafe to the snubber line. To avoid these, I came to attaching the snubber line to a bow cleat then snaking it back through the roller chute, so when deployed it was clear of the pulpit. Proved to be good practice for attaching the chain plate of the bridle. Of course if you don't have a pulpit with chute, but simply and exposed roller, it's much easier.

 

[HeadedToTexas]

On my boat, I do have to bend over and reach around the anchor roller. I don’t bend over very well, but it isn’t really very hard. Maybe you can describe how it works on yours?

I don't have a boat yet and won't for maybe 6-7 more years, but working through these issues helps keep me sane. When the time comes, I hope to have thought about a lot of this ahead of time.

I used the snubber over and through the roller technique quite a few times, typically using a rolling hitch, before a buddy gave me a bridle.Works best if there is a center line cleat or Samson post that avoids having to wrap around the windlass. The things I don't like about it are 1) it still puts pressure on the pulpit and 2) introduces chafe to the snubber line. To avoid these, I came to attaching the snubber line to a bow cleat then snaking it back through the roller chute, so when deployed it was clear of the pulpit. Proved to be good practice for attaching the chain plate of the bridle. Of course if you don't have a pulpit with chute, but simply and exposed roller, it's much easier.

Now that makes sense. I've been thinking in terms of a two-point bridle snubber and figured that the Mantus-style hook would not go through the roller, but using a hook that will go through the pulpit roller would sure simplify things.

 

[dhays]

What Janice describes and psneed do would work well, but I also worry about the stress on the bow pulpit.

My boat has a chain guide over the roller so the above would be the easiest on my boat. However, I like using a bridle. To do this, I have to reach forward and backfeed the bridle through the roller and then I attach the bridle to the chain between the windlass and bow roller. I attach the bridle typically with a soft shackle that goes through the roller just fine.

The only part that is awkward is the reaching forward and backfeeding the legs of the bridle through the roller.

 

[BrianSmith]

We have a bridle going through a Hawse hole on each side of the bow. The terminal ends are shackled to one of the Mantus chain hooks mentioned by janice142 (we like it!). We deploy all the scope we're going to, then reach out in front of the bow roller to attach the Mantus, then let out more chain until the chain is longer than the snubbers. Requires a little manual dexterity, but my wife and I both do it with no issues, and certainly no danger.

Since we anchor most of the time, the bridle is almost always in place. If it's not in place, it is a little more difficult the first time we put in back in place, because you have to feed one end of the bridle under the anchor chain to run it through the Hawse on the other side. (And half the time, we get it wrong, going under one railing, but over the other, and have to re-do it. We're not very smart people!)

 

[klee wyck]

With the recent addition of a Mantus hook as recommended here, I am still thinking about avoiding acrobatics as well.
Both boats have chain exiting a hause well below deck.
On Klee Wyck with the flat chain grabber I can just hang on of the loops of the bridle down close to one side of the chain and grab it with a boat hook from the other side and fish it back up onto the deck. Then using both of the leads I can grab the chain in the flat hook and secure the loops to the bollards aft of the bow on each side.

I ordered the bridle with the Mantus hook recently for Libra and that will be a bit more difficult. I am pretty sure I will not be able to use the plastic gate that locks the chain in the hook unless I launch the kayak or dinghy. With the weight of half inch chain I am not sure I will worry about that unless longer term anchoring and expecting extra challenging conditions. However, with the shape of this hook, I am not sure I will be able to grab the chain using the two lines as easy as I can with the flat chain grabber.
Anyone with experience with this combination have a comment?

 

[caltexflanc]

Bill. any pictures of the windlasses and chain chutes? Are there pawls / chainstoppers ?

 

[Bigsfish]

I determined years ago I don’t lime to use a two line bridal, I use one line only with an Ultra chain hook (3/8), let out the anchor and set it lightly, hook on the ultra near the windless, let out more chain and the one line bridal until the chain has a loop. Put engines in reverse to set anchor. Done. No bending over and simple. If I expect a blow over 40knots I will set a two line bridal.

So I agree with Janice and Scott.

 

[klee wyck]

Bill. any pictures of the windlasses and chain chutes? Are there pawls / chainstoppers ?

George,
Hopefully this will zoom for you.
The vertical lever with the T on top is the clutch/brake on this windlass(as it were). There is one on each side with this double anchor set up. This is quite secure when screwed down and is all I see that stops the chain.
The black cap on the deck toward the left in the picture is just a plastic cover over the pipe where the chain comes from the locker. To the right is the pipe where the chain leaves toward the water but is very hard/impossible to see here. It is alongside/under that silver roller.
The pipe is plenty oversized to pass the hook but not sure where you are going with this and it would be really hard to stuff in there as this is a tight space along side the roller. I am not sure it would pass the double line then and even if it would I am not sure how I would pick the lines up in the water below unless I added floatation.

No pawl/chain stopper in this set up.

Looking forward to your ideas, I am guessing you have some.

 

[Steve Bedford]

Here is a pic of my snubber (at least I think it attached):

After setting my anchor, I attach one end to the starboard cleat, run the rest of the snubber outside of the railing to the cleat on the port side. I then tie a rolling hitch on the tail end onto the chain at a point where the chain enters the roller track. Let out more chain and it is in place. No hassle at all. Retrieval is just as simple: bring in the chain until the rolling hitch is in a position to easily untie and remove the snubber.

 

[HeadedToTexas]

Here is a pic of my snubber

Thanks Steve; nice diagram. If I understand correctly, the bridle could be left in place secured to both cleats, passing through both hawse holes, and with the lead end passing up through the roller. To deploy the snubber, set the anchor, then tie a rolling hitch to the chain between the windlass and the roller. Letting out more chain will let the rolling hitch pass over the roller and down until the snubber takes the tension off the chain. Makes sense, and would seem to avoid acrobatics completely.

 

[JustBob]

Do you guys always keep the attachment (whether a clamp/grabber/knot) above the waterline?

I recall reading at some point a guy saying in a big blow he'd deploy 60' of snubber line, so obviously that is going into the water.

 

[Steve Bedford]

“Thanks Steve; nice diagram. If I understand correctly, the bridle could be left in place secured to both cleats, passing through both hawse holes, and with the lead end passing up through the roller. To deploy the snubber, set the anchor, then tie a rolling hitch to the chain between the windlass and the roller. Letting out more chain will let the rolling hitch pass over the roller and down until the snubber takes the tension off the chain. Makes sense, and would seem to avoid acrobatics completely.”

That is exactly correct. I would do that except, I deploy what I call a “setting line.” This is pretty much the same arrangement (see attached diagram) as the snubber only shorter. It loops slightly forward of the windlass and the tail I use to tie the rolling hitch to set the anchor does not go past the bow roller. Easy to tie and then untie. Some may think it is overkill but I do not want any stress on the windlass. I could buy a chain stopper but this works well and is cheap! What I have found is I do my “initial set” at about 3:1-4:1 then “hard set” at 6:1-7:1 with more force from the engine than what I was allowing to happen when the chain was tight on the windlass. I then either attach the snubber and allow a little more chain out or let out 9:1-10:1 and then secure the snubber with the rolling hitch.

The downside is the set is so strong on the Super MAX anchor that I need this same “setting line” to protect the windlass during breaking the anchor free from the seabed. I can live with that.

I do not use the same snubber to set the anchor because it is longer. The rolling hitch on the setting line never goes past the bow roller and easy to get. I choose the rolling hitch because it is not metal and does not inadvertently bang into the hull. The rolling hitch had never failed, never slipped, and is easy to tie and untie.

Steve

 

[HeadedToTexas]

And the rolling hitch passes easily over the roller. Doesn't seem like some solutions would pass so easily. Very nice. Protecting the windlass seems paramount to me.

Why the setting line instead of a chain stopper?

 

[Steve Bedford]

The rolling hitch on my snubber is either in the water or out. Depends on how much snubber line I want out considering the weather conditions. Since I use nylon rope like the nylon rope on the remainder of the anchor rode, I don’t believe it makes any difference if it is in the water or not. The rolling hitch does not slip and still unties if wet.

Steve

 

[Steve Bedford]

“Why the setting line instead of a chain stopper?”

Some say I am ‘cheap!’ The line was free free and it always works. Chain stoppers are excellent.

Steve

 

[HeadedToTexas]

“Why the setting line instead of a chain stopper?”

Some say I am ‘cheap!’ The line was free free and it always works. Chain stoppers are excellent.

Steve

I can appreciate that! Thanks Steve. Great stuff.

 

[psneeld]

The snubber has to be long enough or light enough duty to be effective...

That can exceed the water depth and why plain chain hooks are not desireable as they can fall off it the connection point can bounce on the bottom.

 

[dhays]

Do you guys always keep the attachment (whether a clamp/grabber/knot) above the waterline?

I recall reading at some point a guy saying in a big blow he'd deploy 60' of snubber line, so obviously that is going into the water.

Two reasons for a snubber. To relieve tension on the windlass it doesn’t matter how long it is. The second reason is to provide stretch to an all chain system. For this, you need a longer snubber so the attachment point will be well under water.

 

[HeadedToTexas]

The second reason is to provide stretch to an all chain system.

Is there a formula to determine conditions that will "stretch" chain tight clear to the anchor? Seems like the scope and weight of the chain would provide sufficient "stretch effect" to snub taught chain problems in the overwhelming number of conditions.

 

[dhays]

Is there a formula to determine conditions that will "stretch" chain tight clear to the anchor? Seems like the scope and weight of the chain would provide sufficient "stretch effect" to snub taught chain problems in the overwhelming number of conditions.

I’m sure there is, but it is way more complicated than I could handle. You would need to know the weight of the chain in water, the length of the chain and the height of the roller above the anchor. That would give you the force necessary to straighten the chain. Then you would need to know the flat plate area of your specific boat to calculate the wind speed to generate that much force. That of course would still leave out the effects of current and would assume that the boat would be bow on to the wind.

However, I think you are right that most of the time the chain catenary at a reasonable scope would provide enough elasticity in the the system so that snubber stretch isn’t important. I often use just a simple short snubber when on a lunch hook or am very confident that there will be nothing but very benign conditions overnight.

 

[psneeld]

I would bet there are too many variables to predict when the chain would be tight enough to shock load the attachment point.

On my boat, 35kt winds, calm water and slight current doesn't, but 20 to 25 knots of wind and chop does.