Battery question

[Eli27]

So I did a complete test on my standard 8d batteries. They are junk. 79 albin 36 single leYman no bow thruster.

I'm going to be doing a full time liveabaoard and wanted opinions on batteries.

Things to know about me
#1- I don't consume much power (phone charge and a couple hrs on laptop

#2- there is a generator aboard (and If that's broke too,,, I have a portable Honda backup)

#3- I'm only gonna be around this boating thing for a couple yrs MAX. Health issue will unfortunately take me away from the ocean

So, what would be your next step? Replace with same or go with a smaller battery. Don't remember the group number but I think they were 27series. Anything wrong with putting a smaller size battery?

Also, these batteries are standard, if I went with AGM, are there alternator issues? Being a mechanic I know cars specify standard or AGM batteries due to alternator charging characteristics. Are there issues with the leYman alternators?

Thanks

 

[READY]

Given the conditions outlined I would just replace with an 8D wet cell. No changes required, it should last 3-5 years with normal care. They are reasonably priced and readily available. Dropping down in size might work and be easier to lift but probable tradeoff on capacity and cold cranking amps.

 

[mvweebles]

Given the conditions outlined I would just replace with an 8D wet cell. No changes required, it should last 3-5 years with normal care. They are reasonably priced and readily available. Dropping down in size might work and be easier to lift but probable tradeoff on capacity and cold cranking amps.

I agree - normally I'd suggest swapping with 6v golf cart batteries from Costco ($110/ea plus core deposit - caution, these have a checkered rating), but cost of cabling would offset any savings and add to the PITA factor.

One of the few times I could imagine sticking with 8Ds.

Peter

 

[Eli27]

Given the conditions outlined I would just replace with an 8D wet cell. No changes required, it should last 3-5 years with normal care. They are reasonably priced and readily available. Dropping down in size might work and be easier to lift but probable tradeoff on capacity and cold cranking amps.

This begs the question,,, how many amps does the 120hp leYman draw cranking? I'll do an actual comparison when my electrical is 100%. But if I had to guess,,,, I think initial hit will be around 6-800 amps in cool Temps (50s-60s) and drop to 300 or so. But that is just a guess. I'm sure somebody stuck a clamp on it!

 

[twistedtree]

How do you use the boat, in particular time underway, at anchor, at a dock with power?

 

[Eli27]

How do you use the boat, in particular time underway, at anchor, at a dock with power?

I'll be 60-40 70-30 anchor- docked. If I'm not cooking or working on the boat for repairs I'll be sleeping.

Not much of an electrical hog. I may use my laptop an hr

 

[av8r]

The manual indicates a locked-rotor draw of 1070 amps, a running draw of 650 amps.

 

[Eli27]

The manual indicates a locked-rotor draw of 1070 amps, a running draw of 650 amps.

I was only off 30-50% not bad.lol

 

[psneeld]

A group 24 will easily crank a Lehman 120, my researched showed the cranking amperage at 350 amps on the starter I had.

I went with a group 31 just for the greater reserve but a group 27 would be OK. From what others have posted in the past.... any of the above 3 were sprinkled in.

Electrical systems usually need lots of pics and diagrams to sort out through internet posts (and even then I generally won't discuss much beyond a single component change)...suggesting major system changes I think need a eyes/hands on type review before suggestions.

Here are the specs for one starter....

https://ab-marineservice.com/en/pro...drive O Distance: 103.00 O Distance 2: 146.50

Electrical specifications
Voltage: 12
kW: 2.8

 

[ranger58sb]

o I did a complete test on my standard 8d batteries. They are junk. 79 albin 36 single leYman no bow thruster.

So, what would be your next step? Replace with same or go with a smaller battery. Don't remember the group number but I think they were 27series. Anything wrong with putting a smaller size battery?

Also, these batteries are standard, if I went with AGM, are there alternator issues? Being a mechanic I know cars specify standard or AGM batteries due to alternator charging characteristics. Are there issues with the leYman alternators?

I'll be 60-40 70-30 anchor- docked. If I'm not cooking or working on the boat for repairs I'll be sleeping.

Not much of an electrical hog. I may use my laptop an hr

Yes, smaller batteries would start your engines.

But maybe more info about architecture would be helpful. You say "8D batteries" suggesting plural, but with a single engine... maybe one is for starting and one is for house loads? Or maybe they're ganged together into a single bank to service both functions? Or...?

Were it me, I'd guess my electrical usage for house loads might increase over time... as I became aware of more capabilities while onboard.

So I'd probably replace house service with the same capacity, even if split into smaller batteries. A typical 8D might be ~250-Ah, and that'd be something like 2 G31s (200 Ah) or 3 G31s (300 Ah).

But as Peter mentions, multiple batteries would require cabling changes, etc. and need a different footprint...

So paying a guy to schlepp an 8D or two can be a pretty good deal.

I haven't heard of alternator issues between flooded or AGM batteries of roughly the same capacity. AGMs can do a good job relieving you of some of the servicing issues...

-Chris

 

[DBG8492]

Sounds like you're in my boat, LOL

I bought a Marine Trader 36 from the estate of a passed captain. It had sat for over 18 months at the dock without being touched - at all.

When I took possession about 6 weeks ago, she had 14 batteries - eight golf cart batteries as a house bank, two 27s for starter, two 27s for thruster/windlass, and one 27 each for the genny and a small winch on the davits.

All of them were sulfated beyond any hope of repair.

Once I sorted the issue of where our phantom inverter/charger was located - a long and boring story - I replaced the win/thrust with two identicals, one 27 for the starter, and two 27s for the house bank. Genny needs the raw water system overhauled, so it's red-tagged, and we didn't need the winch to pull the dinghy we bought, so those weren't replaced.

The only difference is that we are heading for the hard ASAP. We took her from South Florida up and across the Okeechobee Waterway without issue. Still, we didn't anchor out - stayed in marinas every night and kept a close eye on the batteries using a manual charger when necessary because we use a great deal of 12v - fridge, lights, many 12v fans, FW pump, etc - with the biggest draw by far being the fridge @ nearly 5 amps when running. She also had a previous-owner-installed alternator distributor that (allegedly) digitally senses and charges each bank.

For us, it made financial sense not to replicate the previous configuration at the time because we plan to build an entirely new system during the refit.

Having said all that, if I were in your shoes and just planning to cruise, I would replicate what was already there. As @Ready said above - the 8D wet cells will get you more years than you plan to spend on the boat, and you don't have to do any worrying about whether or not what you put in will work. Provided, of course, that it worked for the PO.

In any case, congrats and good luck!

 

[mvweebles]

BatteriesPlus (retail chain - also checkered reputation) shows a Duracell 8D for $269 with core exchange. Note, core is $72 vs around $15 for G24/27/31. By swapping form-factor, you may lose benefit of this core deposit.

https://www.batteriesplus.com/produ...-IKh3iu0YKSnHc7IOmLOMHRlE4zb2OSAaAglVEALw_wcB

Question: You mention your onboard energy would be limited to small electronics. No need for refrigeration? Outside of HVAC, refrigeration is typically the big energy draw for boats. Also - and this may not apply to your use-case - having too small battery bank that also serves engine start tends to power-cycle electronics when you start engine due to voltage drop.

Good luck with whatever you chose -

Peter

 

[Don L]

The only thing you save by going with a smaller battery is $$$. But it is very little $$$ in the big picture. But if wrong about your energy needs the lower capacity of the smaller battery is a big PITA. I don't think anyone really ever complains about having too much battery capacity except for the weight when they move them.

 

[PM]

Have someone young and strong get those 8d's off your boat.They do not belong on a boat. Get a couple group 27's for the house batteries and a single group 27 starting battery. All your needs will be met for $300 and whatever it costs you to hire a teenager to do the lifting.

pete

 

[mvweebles]

Have someone young and strong get those 8d's off your boat.They do not belong on a boat. Get a couple group 27's for the house batteries and a single group 27 starting battery. All your needs will be met for $300 and whatever it costs you to hire a teenager to do the lifting.

pete

All your needs.......except cables, lugs, crimps, and re-sizing battery boxes. Other than that, OP would be golden.

Peter

 

[ranger58sb]

Have someone young and strong get those 8d's off your boat.They do not belong on a boat. Get a couple group 27's for the house batteries and a single group 27 starting battery. All your needs will be met for $300 and whatever it costs you to hire a teenager to do the lifting.

8Ds might not belong on your boat, but...

If already paying some muscle to deal with battery weight, there's not huge reason to NOT have 8Ds if that's what's already installed.

-Chris

 

[jleonard]

I had 2 group 31s and 1 group 24 crammed into the boat’s battery box in parallel. It was way more than needed.
And easier to deal with than an 8D.

 

[Capt Ray]

+1 for JLEONARD's idea:

Replace 1 8D with 2 (or 3) Group 31.

 

[denniskeith]

Cost compared to useful life of batteries

[there’s lots of good choices with modern batteries, and most of the research that I’ve looked at indicates that the cost of a battery is always the same based on the useful life. That would mean you can buy the most expensive batteries and change them less often were you can buy the least expensive batteries and change them more often but the net cost is always about the same.

QUOTE=Eli27;1188632]So I did a complete test on my standard 8d batteries. They are junk. 79 albin 36 single leYman no bow thruster.

I'm going to be doing a full time liveabaoard and wanted opinions on batteries.

Things to know about me
#1- I don't consume much power (phone charge and a couple hrs on laptop

#2- there is a generator aboard (and If that's broke too,,, I have a portable Honda backup)

#3- I'm only gonna be around this boating thing for a couple yrs MAX. Health issue will unfortunately take me away from the ocean

So, what would be your next step? Replace with same or go with a smaller battery. Don't remember the group number but I think they were 27series. Anything wrong with putting a smaller size battery?

Also, these batteries are standard, if I went with AGM, are there alternator issues? Being a mechanic I know cars specify standard or AGM batteries due to alternator charging characteristics. Are there issues with the leYman alternators?

Thanks[/QUOTE]

 

[denniskeith]

[there’s lots of good choices with modern batteries, and most of the research that I’ve looked at indicates that the cost of a battery is always the same based on the useful life. That would mean you can buy the most expensive batteries and change them less often or you can buy the least expensive batteries and change them more often but the net cost is always about the same

 

[LenBuchanan]

i talked to a marine electrician a couple of years ago. We had 8d batteries, one for each Cummins 250hp engine. These were used for both starting and house.
He suggested 2 group 27's in parallel for a replacement for the 8d. He indicated that they would be more than enough to replace the 8d. He also suggested using 1 group 31 for a replacement for the starting battery for my genset, which was a 4d. Haven't had a problem yet.

 

[ronobrien]

This begs the question,,, how many amps does the 120hp leYman draw cranking? I'll do an actual comparison when my electrical is 100%. But if I had to guess,,,, I think initial hit will be around 6-800 amps in cool Temps (50s-60s) and drop to 300 or so. But that is just a guess. I'm sure somebody stuck a clamp on it!

Just last week Brian at ADC told me that the FL120 starter draws 420 CCA. This is the same for both the CAV45 I am replacing with the Lucas replacement starter they sell. ($450+/-)

 

[Eli27]

i talked to a marine electrician a couple of years ago. We had 8d batteries, one for each Cummins 250hp engine. These were used for both starting and house.
He suggested 2 group 27's in parallel for a replacement for the 8d. He indicated that they would be more than enough to replace the 8d. He also suggested using 1 group 31 for a replacement for the starting battery for my genset, which was a 4d. Haven't had a problem yet.

Buying 4 27's. I'm going to run them 2 and 2. See how that goes.

 

[Eli27]

Just last week Brian at ADC told me that the FL120 starter draws 420 CCA. This is the same for both the CAV45 I am replacing with the Lucas replacement starter they sell. ($450+/-)

Yeah, my starter went to. Day before splash I wanted to wake up the engine and say hi. Starter was pissed,,, the starter actually spoke and said click, click, click.

Starter came on Friday. Gonna install either today or tomorrow.

 

[kpinnn]

This weekend I changed my starting battery from a 27 to 31 series. Yes the 27 started both perkins 4-154 engines but I had to bleed the engines after changing fuel filters. Te 27 series did not have enough energy to turn over even one engine long enough to bleed the engine. I needed from 850 to 950 MCA I estimate.
Ken

 

[ronobrien]

This weekend I changed my starting battery from a 27 to 31 series. Yes the 27 started both perkins 4-154 engines but I had to bleed the engines after changing fuel filters. Te 27 series did not have enough energy to turn over even one engine long enough to bleed the engine. I needed from 850 to 950 MCA I estimate.
Ken

There should be a means to prime the system without using the starter to do it. Your starter would thank you for it.

 

[slowgoesit]

BatteriesPlus (retail chain - also checkered reputation) shows a Duracell 8D for $269 with core exchange. Note, core is $72 vs around $15 for G24/27/31. By swapping form-factor, you may lose benefit of this core deposit.

https://www.batteriesplus.com/produ...-IKh3iu0YKSnHc7IOmLOMHRlE4zb2OSAaAglVEALw_wcB

Peter

We replaced our aging start batteries with this exact same battery. In our case, two 8d's for a 24v start bank. And they are maintenance free as well. We haven't had them long enough to really give a good review, but we're pleased with them so far.

The batteries we replace were tired, FLA. Always topped off with distilled H2O. They died after only 7 1/2 years. So I think they were entitled!

Bonus: The website now shows them as $259.00 each!