bayliners.

[justinclay]

maybe im going to start a war but i need to know its killing me. why do bayliners have a bad rap? Ive watched countless youtube videos of smaller 32' footers in some pretty rough weather. very reliable engines. is it all in the cabin ?? meaning they use lesser quality stuff? i wanna know peoples opinions. or do they just have a bad rap bc there cheaper? People with big bucks trying to dominate?? like i said not trying to start a war just curious guys.

thank you, Justin

 

[Wadosan]

Good question! I couldn't understand this either.

 

[johnma]

Many years ago at a trip to the Annapolis Powerboat Show I was on a boat and comparing it to a Bayliner ( i forget what brand boat i was on at the time) The sales rep for that company said (with a snear) that Bayliner was the "Chevy" of boats. I said what's wrong with that? Ulimately I bought a 32' Bayliner, ran it for 17 years and put thousands of miles on it. i ran it on plane when I was with planing boats and ran at hull speed when I ran with trawlers. Bayliner has a hell of a marketing plan. they get you in your early 20's with a 16' runabout and every time you're ready for a larger or different style of boat, they have one for you. Not a bad plan! After a lot of years running both a 27' and a 32' with no problems I moved to a Mainship 390; which might be described as the Chevy of trawlers.
John

 

[justinclay]

thats awesome to hear. glad you chose the bayliner anyways

 

[psneeld]

NO good reason anymore...and they never were so bad in the motoryacht line.

 

[sunchaser]

i need to know its killing me. why do bayliners have a bad rap?

Insecurity maybe? The boats are fine for their intended purpose.

 

[justinclay]

was looking at the 3388s and look like an extremely good buy for me.

 

[justinclay]

3288*

 

[CaptTom]

As a 10-year Bayliner 285 owner, I can tell you this has come up more than once on the Bayliner Owners Club board.

Bayliner is owned by Brunswick, and the hull material, construction methods, engines, mechanical systems, bimini poles, door handles, cup holders, lights, and just about everything that you normally think of as maintenance items are identical to the rest of their line.

If you don't like the idea of owning the "chevy" of boats, and can pay about twice as much, you can buy a Sea Ray, also from Brunswick. The interior designs are flashier and finish materials are more luxurious. They are nice boats!

Personally, I intended to use mine, not show it. I found the Bayliner interior lay-out much better than even larger Sea Rays (and just about every other brand.) The dinette seats 4 around a normal, rectangular table. No designer-style arching couch with a little oval table in front of it. The mid berth has a solid door separating it from the cabin. Even the V-berth has more privacy with good separation from the dinette and galley areas.

As you can tell, after 10 seasons of taking this boat everywhere we could, I'm still a fan. And I'm a trawler guy at heart, I had real reservations buying a "Clorox bottle" style boat at first. No more. We're going to miss it, but we needed just a little more room and range.

 

[Pau Hana]

It's all perception, and perhaps jealousy that Bayliner makes boating affordable.

In my (almost) 50 years, I've owned 11 boats, 4 of them Bayliners (16' Capri, 23' Trophy, 3870 Motoryacht, 4087 Aft Cabin). I have nothing but praise for all of them. Each met or exceeded my needs and wants,and I wouldn't hesitate to own another.

Also, you'll find the Bayliner Owners Club is perhaps the most comprehensive manufacturer specific website available. From 15' to 57', gas, diesel, and even sail (yes, Bayliner made sailboats!), the BOC covers them all- and 99% of the time without the drama found on other sites. You'll find technical info, repair data and help., upgrades, and an extensive "DIY/How-to" area.

 

[ARoss]

There was a big fuss several years back about Merc Bravo III outdrives, which were on a lot of gas powered Bayliners in the 20+ foot range. Corrosion, more than just what one might expect from stray current or all the other explanations that are out there. Several boats in our marina were affected. I guess the problem was with the outdrives, but Bayliners got a black eye from it as well, since as I recall they dodged the warranty issue and blamed Mercruiser.

I think the larger (38+) diesel boats are thought of much better. I really like the looks of the 45/47 PH models, though I've never been aboard one.

 

[Woodsong]

Bayliners are terrible! Wait...I own a bayliner!!

Seriously- I think some of their smaller/older bowriders got a bad reputation for construction techniques. Big difference though in their smaller boats and their larger motor yachts. Is the fit and finish on my 45 pilothouse the same as my Monk 36? No, of course not. Is it still pretty nice and 110% functional? definitely. As well, the Monk 36 and my bayliner 4550 will basically cruise the exact same waters with no appreciable difference in abilities to handle said waters. For older boats it is truly more about maintenance and care than brand name. I can show you a 25 year old bayliner motoryacht that would be better than the same vintage hatteras or Kadey krogen or any other brand, depending on how said boat was taken care of.
The 38 sedan by Bayliner and the 45/47 pilothouses are the 3 best motor yacht sellers with a strong market following. The 32 is a nice boat with nice lines and get that boat with diesels and she is a sweet and economical little cruiser.
The biggest "issue" most of the larger bayliners have is the name "Bayliner" on the side of the boat. Take that name off and let boaters look at the boats for what they are and they typically have great things to say. I'm not going to pretend a bayliner is a Nordhavn b/c it is what it is but for what you pay and what you get and the quality of what you get for that price is a very, very good deal.

 

[Codger2]

I really like the looks of the 45/47 PH models, though I've never been aboard one.

Well, if you get the chance, check one out. They have a terrific layout and pilot house.

 

[Russell Clifton]

I am sorry I am going to offend some people by saying this, but my experience has been with many (not all) of the people that are operating them. Nearly every time I encounter a boat coming into a anchorage way to fast and throwing a huge swell, it turns out to be a Bayliner. It's like some one else said, these folks start out with a 16 foot and work their way up until they get to the 45 footer. But they still think their boat is throwing out a 16 footer swell !!!!
I guess they just missed the safe boating class the night they talked about being considerate to other boaters.

 

[expat]

to many snobs out there, they do not like that you could buy a nicer, better equiped boat for less than they paid, easier to critisise.[I have never owned a Bayliner]

 

[markpierce]

Amazing. Seems like many boaters like to boat in a "running shoe," considering the multitude of models/variations Bayliner makes. Makes me wonder if I'm "out of step." The Coot is the antithesis of a Bayliner. Nevertheless, whatever gives us joy. Guess I'm still "hung up" with the plastic toy tugboat I had as a five-year-old.

 

[ksanders]

I will echo the responses of some of the other happy Bayliner owners and former owners that posted.

I think the real "bayliner problem" is that people tend to catergorize all Bayliner boats together.

Like any large manufacturer Bayliner produced a multitude of models, from inexpensive entry level ski boats to the 5788, a large motoryacht by any measure.

Does anybody think less of the Z06 Corvette, or the Surburban, just because Chevy made the Vega? No they don't, and it should be the same with boats.

The truth is that Bayliner boats are production boats, with a mid level fit and finish. I have been on some very expensive fishing boats that had much more spartan fit and finish, and boats that are much fancier on the inside.

What Bayliner did really well, something that very few other boat manufacturers were able to do was to streamline production through volume and production efficiencies. Where other manufacturers bought for example fiberglass resin by the truck load, Bayliner bought it by the trainload. This buying power along with engineering their production processes lowered unit cost, and many believe helped drive some other great but smaller manufacturers out of business.

Something else Bayliner was great at is supplying boats to fit a market. It is my understanding that they actually studied (and still do) market demographics and built boats around their intended markets wants and needs. This has made them extremely popular. Instead of a little company saying I'll build a XXX size boat and people will buy it, Bayliner studied what people at different stages of life wanted in a boat and built boats to fit their needs. That is a huge concept that smaller manufacturers never had the resources to do.

 

[Marin]

The entry level Bayliner boats are built as inexpensively as possible to attract the largest possible entry level market. So they have a reputation of lower component quality, inexpensive workmanship, and so on. Their larger boats's are very well built but the basic Bayliner philosophy of building the most affordable boat possible still stands.

The Bayliner reputation has little to do with the boats and everything to do with their market. When you build a less expensive product you tend to attract buyers who otherwise may not be in a position to buy this type of boat. Which means you start attracting buyers whose primary interest in boating may not be becoming real good at it. They buy for status, to keep up with the Joneses, for social entertainment reasons, because "they alwys wanted a boat," for fishing, and so on.

And when you have created a large customer base of relatively inexperienced boaters, many of whom are not that interested in learning navigation, the rules of the road, seamanship, and so on but simply want to "go boating," you get a lot of people out driving your boats who aren't very good at it and who can and do make a lot of mistakes or do stupid things. And since all these people are driving boats that say "Bayliner" on the side, the brand takes on the reputation of the operators.

And it doesn't take very many encounters with a few bad apples to color the whole barrel in the eyes of conscientious and competent boaters.

 

[justinclay]

Thank you all. Especially you marin. I had never thought of maybe the people in bayliner boats being uninformed idiots. Guess buying a boat expensive or not tends to make people lose sight of the real reason they bought a boat. To enjoy the waters safely. Thats sad to hear.

 

[kinerin]

I'd be very much in agreement with Marin's reply.

In the the sailboat world the same rationale exists. There's numerous "beginner" boats built by high volume manufacturers ie: Hunter, Catalina, Beneteau, Jenneau, etc. They've been building boats for many years; and for a lot of folks, they represent an entry-level boat that gets most boaters started.

The smaller boats are coastal cruisers, not intended for real blue-water applications like some of the better-known boats like Island Packet, Tartan, Pacific Seacraft, etc. That's not to say folks have not used them as such. Many have and are satisfied with them.

Sometimes a Chevy is just fine. You can take a road trip in a Chevy or a BMW. Both will get you there. Just a different experience.

 

[ColonyCove]

It is mostly about snob appeal. Does the guy who shows up at the country club in a Kia get the same "respect" from his peers as the the guy in a Beamer? Is showing off your Timex going to engender the same reaction as displaying your Rolex? I've always bought boats to take me out safely and to bring me, and my family, back. My Bayliners (2452 and a 3488) did that time and time again. They were not without systems problems associated with all boats, but I never felt endangered by either boat because it was a Bayliner. Same thing exists with trawlers. I once had a salesman look down his elegant Roman nose at me when I mentioned a preference for Mainship.
His comment, "Well, a Mainship is certainly not a Selene!", was meant to draw a sharp distinction between the brands; mine being of course the lesser. My reaction was only a good chuckle. I suppose some folks need to impress "superiority" on others. Me, I just need a boat to take me to beautiful places.

 

[Chrisjs]

We should now compare Bayliners to SeaRays!!! My first inboard boat was a 23ft Bayliner. Before that I had a couple of small racing dinghies and a ski boat. But the Bayliner was great for what it was. It had a V berth, a queen-sized berth, enough room to sit at a table. An alcohol stove and a portapotty head. All that in 23ft. My wife, my young son and I used to use that boat for up to 2 weeks at a time. We docked it, anchored out and kept it on a mooring. Fantastic value. Just wish back in the day it had GPS and a chartplotter, more than once we ended up in the wrong place by dead reckoning with a compass and paper chart!!

 

[healhustler]

Assuming that Bayliner remains a very progressive and competitive builder, I can imagine that the baby-boomer demand for trawler-like vessels (you know, the same group of Bayliner buyers that could always find a Bayliner to suit their needs as their needs evolved) would eventually inspire a Bayliner Fast Trawler to come to the market. If it does, I'll be on their doorstep, and I'll tell you why. Every time I'm at a boat show, I visit the Bayliner display and climb in among the crowds of kids and families to take a look at how they use space. No one does that better than they do, and I'm always looking for ideas. Our first boat was a Bayliner 2452 with a 300 and Bravo III duo-prop. It was a good value.

The idea that Bayliner is the Chevy of boats doesn't bother me a bit. I don't mind being a Chevy guy. Give me a stand-up engine room in a Chevy and I'll be happy.

 

[Wadosan]

So it's interesting to hear the different opinions. I wonder if when everyone here first started boating, did we think that Bayliner was inferior? Speaking for myself, since I didn't know any difference, I thought Bayliner's were great. They looked nice, they were affordable, so our first boats (2 of them) were the small 17 & 19 foot runabouts. It's when I started really getting into boating, visiting the forums, that I noticed the Bayliner bashing. They where saying things like they had thin hulls with even some providing supposed examples of their hulls flexing. This provided quite an impact to a novice reading this stuff. What was not adding up in my mind was the fact that our two boats seemed well built, I certainly couldn't "flex" the hull (I tried by getting under it and pushing on it...seems silly now). To further the contradiction in my mind, I had a chance to see inside a 3270 and then at boat shows, the 39 footer, 52 footer and the 57 footer. Every one of these displayed a genius and obvious understanding of a thoughtful, efficient layout. In fact, some of these boats had been updated and had finishes that rivaled some of the higher end boats.

But to this day, there's still a annoying doubt that was seeded long ago. I have, for the most part, pushed aside this doubt and actually, is a boat that we are considering in our plans for our future...it's probably in the top 3. I just can't disregard the tremendous value that these boats are.

I just can't get why Bayliner didn't make go-slow boats (I think they did but very few and were smaller 26 foot Explorers I believe). Big boats shouldn't go fast. Jus' kidding. Maybe that's another topic.

 

[psneeld]

Bayliner History & Updates( Please note- mostly all written in chronological order over MANY years -with updates written as they occurred)

• Brunswick (company who owns Bayliner, Sea ray, Hatteras, Sealine, Maxum, Boston Whaler, Cabo, Mercruiser, plus many other boat lines AND now even Cummins diesel) discontinued the Bayliner series of Motor yachts and Pilothouse Yachts in the spring of 2002 and they were “reborn” as Meridians for the 2003 model year at a much higher price ($300k higher MSRP- $150k more for cash deals) for exactly the same boat (they were 02 4788′s with 2 changed to a 3 on the 02 HIN numbers) as the year before when they were badged as Bayliner. ALL the BIG (49′ – 58′) Meridians were built from the same molds in the same factory by the same people as the Bayliners in Washington State. The Meridians have higher grade fabrics, hardware, bedding, faucets, etc., than the Bayliners, but many of the standard items offered on all Bayliners were options on the Meridians. You will see cockpit showers in the 4788′s, but likely will not in a 490. ETC.

Meridian & Bayliner Pilothouse Motoryacht- HISTORY and updates

Bayliner did have a perception problem...that's how they dealt with it...

I worked for a dealership when the change happened....I really liked the Bayliner Pilothouse models. My multimillionaire sailing buddy is considering a Meridian over a Flemming...because he knows he will never get hs money's worth out of the Flemming...yet he could easily afford it.

 

[ksanders]

Wadosan


You'll mostly find bayliner bashing on Internet forums.

You never see it at the dock.

It's hard to bash a boat when it's sitting right in front of you able to prove the basher wrong.

 

[Woodsong]

The 45 pilothouse and newer 47 pilothouse are just great coastal cruising boats. Tons of room, best pilothouse probably in her class, and great fuel economy. Just for fun, here is the fuel burn data for my 45 with twin 220hp Hino diesels. Not bad at all for a 45' 3 stateroom boat. Really though, I just love the pilothouse- my man cave on the water!

 

[Wadosan]

The 45 pilothouse and newer 47 pilothouse are just great coastal cruising boats. Tons of room, best pilothouse probably in her class, and great fuel economy. Just for fun, here is the fuel burn data for my 45 with twin 220hp Hino diesels. Not bad at all for a 45' 3 stateroom boat. Really though, I just love the pilothouse- my man cave on the water!

Woodsong - I couldn't find the fuel burn data.

 

[Woodsong]

Sorry- was too busy propping my feet up at the pilothouse it seems!

 

[Codger2]

Sorry- was too busy propping my feet up at the pilothouse it seems!

If memory serves me correctly, my buddy's boat had almost identical numbers.

This thread seems to have a lot of 4588 & 4788 owners on the defensive as well as Bayliner owners of different models. I have never owned a Bayliner and I shared the "Tupperware analogies" that were flying around (and still are!) for years. Both my brother, who had a 57' DeFever (stretched from a 53) and I had the opportunity to cruise on my buddy's 4588. We were stunned! Not only did it handle the open sea well (70 miles to Catalina from San Diego & back.) It was super comfortable, had a great galley and a super pilot house! Also, having a good turn of speed, this boat is extremely hard to beat.

People that knock them just don't know what the hell they're talking about.

If you haven't tried one, don't knock it!