Best MSD system

[Last Tango]

The Last Tango is a 1980 Ocean Yacht 40+2 Trawler. I have had her 3 years. She was built with two Raritan Lecta San systems that were both plumbed directly overboard. She was built with two holding tanks, but they were never connected, apparently it was an option for the owner to use the tanks as auxiliary potable water tanks.

I haven't found the proverbial boatyard mechanic who has dozens of old systems laying about, who can get me operational at an easy price. (dreamer).

Home port is freshwater. Cruising grounds are saltwater. I am looking at replacing at least one of the older Lectra San systems with an Electra Scan system, with a Y valve to the holding tank for when we are in an NDZ. - That would only be for a few days at a time.

I looked at Purasan for the primarily freshwater areas, but then you still have the pellets vs the salt feeder tank. No apparent gain, for double the money.

I looked at the Incinilator, complete incineration, Zero Discharge, just dry, inert, garbage. Costly, but seemed reasonable until I read that it takes an hour or so of 120 VAC power for a single flush. - We definitely don't want to run the generator for hours per day dealing with waste.

Any suggestions from you liveaboards that are legal is appreciated! - I lived aboard my 41' ketch for several years but never was up to the required standards in place today...

Thanks

Chris
Last Tango

 

[Captain K]

Why not connect the output of your two Lectra Sans to your two holding tanks with Y-valves? Just put the Y-valves downstream from your Lectra Sans so you can select either overboard or holding tank for the discharge. Cheap. Legal. Simple. I also have the older Lectra San units. They were also not connected to the holding tank when I bought the boat, and were discharging directly overboard. I installed Y-valves so that I could discharge them into my holding tanks when in a NDZ (No Discharge Zone). My Lectra Sans still work flawlessly, although I do have to add salt when operating in fresh water. Good luck.

 

[HopCar]

I recommend you look at a Raritan Electro Scan with a salt feed tank for use when you're in fresh water. You don't need to buy the special tablets that you need for the Purisan.

On the other hand the Purisan draws less power and some people say it needs less maintenance. It does cost more but not twice the cost of an electro scan.

I think the usual way to deal with no discharge zones is to put the sewage into the tank first then treat and dump when it's legal.

 

[Mule]

I am so disgusted with Raritan electro scan, (I have 2 not working properly,) the cost of then that I think maybe, especially if I am cruising I am thinking of going maseration, fresh water holding with direct pump overboard at the right time. As I cruise the Indian River and look at all the houses on septic tanks it is hard to feel guilty, especially since a cup of bleach, that dissipates quickly kills the bugs in a 20gallon tank....fast.
Small boats get picked on because they are an easy target, the impact is minuscule compared to septic systems.

 

[HopCar]

Mule, talk to Mac McCoy at Raritan in Ft. Lauderdale about your electro scan problems. He's my go to guy for anything Raritan. He really knows his XXXX stuff.

 

[Mule]

I think I have talked to him b4. Never worked with less than a great employee with Raritan... But $400 for a set of electrodes. I think my Electroscans were fresh water abused by previous owner. So 2x$400.??? Doubt I will do it. Factor in the amp draw on the bank and I am quickly reaching the point of diminishing returns.

 

[HopCar]

Mule you should be able to buy those electrode packs for less than $300 each, but I get your point, still expensive.

 

[FF]

>As I cruise the Indian River and look at all the houses on septic tanks it is hard to feel guilty,<

REALLY ?, A septic tank ,with leach field will produce clear drinkable water after 4 ft in the leach field.

Simply chopping up waste into brown soup and adding a cup of poison simply makes it impossible for the waste to be digested , till the poison dilutes.

Far better to simply discharge from a toilet directly with out any >treatment< which will create far less brown soup concentration than a waste tank discharge.

 

[Mule]

There has got to be a reason cities have sewer systems, a reason one of the objectives of un served neighborhoods strive for sewer systems. You can have my share of septic system drinkable water.... As for bleach, it evaporates fast, at least it did outta my hot tub, and they put that poison in swimming pools, city drinking water and many other uses for disinfectant.

Even harder to for me to get upset with small boats considering the mess given us compliments of the heavily federally subsidized sugar cane industry blowing green poison into the Indian River as last summer when the Okeechobee was drawn down killing any and all while the EPA and others look the other way.

As I said, small boats are an easy target. They are not the problem, nor have they been.

As for the Raritans, I will look for more affordable electrodes and just bitch about the Rarirans, as usual, rather than re-plumb the boat.... thanks.

 

[ksanders]

WE've had both the electro-scan, the older lectra-san, and now the purasan

All three have proven to be easy to maintain and rock solid reliable.

Yes, you can use a salt feed for the electro-scan but since we use potable water for the heads on our boat we use the Purasan. The tablet takes all of two minutes to replace, and again the unit has proven itself over time to be very reliable.

 

[Donsan]

There has got to be a reason cities have sewer systems, a reason one of the objectives of un served neighborhoods strive for sewer systems. You can have my share of septic system drinkable water.... As for bleach, it evaporates fast, at least it did outta my hot tub, and they put that poison in swimming pools, city drinking water and many other uses for disinfectant.

Even harder to for me to get upset with small boats considering the mess given us compliments of the heavily federally subsidized sugar cane industry blowing green poison into the Indian River as last summer when the Okeechobee was drawn down killing any and all while the EPA and others look the other way.

As I said, small boats are an easy target. They are not the problem, nor have they been.

As for the Raritans, I will look for more affordable electrodes and just bitch about the Rarirans, as usual, rather than re-plumb the boat.... thanks.

Fertilizer and pesticide run off of all kinds are order of magnitude worse for the ICW in Florida that sewer water. The main issue with septic tanks is when they get old and crack, that sewage can go directly into the ground. But fertilizer, insecticides and sewage are each a different threat to the quality of water. Another problem has been the dumping of antibiotics and other medical wastes into the waterways. Septic tanks in good condition and in the proper soil environment are not a problem. But a lot of Florida homes were built in the 50's and 60's and some of those septic tanks were not up to todays standards and have aged, cracked and partially caved in causing bacteria to enter the waterways.

 

[Phil Fill]

we have a microphor. Its sort of like a small septic tank. Requirers no electricity or chemicals. Just use it. We have a four person. Mostly used in larger commercial boats ships. A little pricey for most pleasure boats. We use the holding tank in the marina and the microphor when in open salt water.

 

[bgillroy]

We have s port-a-potty and that works great empty Every week or so when cruising... No equipment, no chemicals , no fuss no muss..no moving parts ...for simple is good

 

[FF]

The composting toilet style does work if simple is your choice.

 

[rwidman]

I considered installing a treatment system on my boat but because of the cost and the space taken up, I never got around to it. When we are in a marina, we make use of the facilities when practical (but not in the middle of the night). Also, no discharge zones are multiplying where treated sewage can't be discharged anyway.


I know the laws but there are occasions where we will have to empty our holding tank regardless. It's never near shore or around other boats or residences. I can't see this as a big problem compared to all the fish and marine mammals peeing and pooping in the river without restriction.


As for the statement about dumping poop directly overboard, I really believe chopping it up in little pieces is better. It's going to decompose mere quickly and nobody is going to se soft brown logs floating through an anchorage.

 

[waterfront]

For anyone dumping raw sewage into the waters of Florida the fine is $250.00. The fine for noncompliance of equipment is $50.00 per item. It is actually cheaper for me to use a holding tank and pump-out. Most marinas have pumpout facilities if they sell fuel. Think about it the next time you go swimming!!

 

[ksanders]

We have a electroscan MSD and a Hold-N-treat control system and would not have a boat without them anymore.

When in a NDZ we turn the key switch to "No Discharge" which fulfills all federal requirements.

When we leave the NDZ we turn the key to "automatic". The system then legally treats the waste and discharges it overboard.

No pumpouts, no trouble, fully automatic.

 

[READY2GO]

Florida has done a really good job of making sure pumpout facilities are available. Other states along the gulf coast not so much.

I think people do get a little too concerned about boaters waste. We are a very small problem. People work on a gross out factor rather than on common sense. Parts per million are not even on the scale. The following is a link to a sewer spill into the Ohio River of "Millions of gallons". The city states their drinking water was safe because the intake was upriver of the spill. Lots of cities below the spill. These spills happen quit often. How many boats do you think it would take to produce millions of gallons of waste? Not to mention this was in one area not spread over many states.

Power outage causes massive sewage leak

Animals poop too.

Mile-long trail of manatee poop forces beach closure | MNN - Mother Nature Network

 

[READY2GO]

If we could only learn to poop like a unicorn.


https://youtu.be/YbYWhdLO43Q

 

[Cthorstad]

No. Tell her to stop by moms house so I can see you.

 

[sdowney717]

I rebuilt my Lectra-san. New motor bushings and new slingers? I took apart the motors and cleaned them, new paint and oiled the bushings.
And it needed a new electrode pack, I paid $250.
Works great now.
I have the older original manual turn timer with meter.

These electrode packs draw 18 amps when operating optimally with the right salt concentration. I installed an inline amp meter to read the amps going to the pack.

The timer control's meter loses its calibration and will read too low, the meter magnet gets weak. I talked to Vic at Raritan who designed theses things before he retired. You can pop off the cover and move it higher to get it to show in the green. I think I might someday look into a better fix, maybe add a little super magnet. in there. I personally like the manual timer control, no fancy electronic gizmos to fail or not function.

The packs, I cut open the old one. There is a heavy copper wire runs from stud to titanium plate electrode. The solid copper wire, the seal leaks and acid corrodes the wire and it breaks. Then no current can flow to electrode.
IF you buy titanium wire, maybe you could attach to the titanium plate and then the stud and have it working better than before. I think a plain copper wire will quickly fail if not sealed into the pack.
The way they attached copper wire to plates, slits are cut and expanded in the titanium plate. Copper wire passes thru the slits. Then the slits are pressed back into the wire. The plates and wires are sealed in with a rubbery mastic. Eventually since the current flow heats and expands the plates, the seal will fail, letting in the corrosive acid water which destroys the copper wire. The titanium plates will not wear out.

 

[what_barnacles]

No. Tell her to stop by moms house so I can see you.

That was almost like the old days of party phone lines. LOL

 

[FF]

The really BEST system is found in an RV.

There the toilet is directly above the holding tank and only a very tiny amount of water is needed to flush.

This can multiply the tank endurance by as much as 5 x.

Sadly it usually needs to be built in , and NA seem interested more in the "look" of the interior that useful functions underway.

The holding tank for US cruising could only have a deck pump out fitting , getting you off the hook everywhere.

Even for offshore a portable pump (that could serve double duty as a pump) could empty the tank with no mess .

The Edson gallon a stroke comes to mind.

Almost no plumbing , virtually no maint ,no electric , and Legal,whats not to love?

For the larger boat with many guests the only addition would be a 3 inch drain with a quality (Dupree) waste valve.

Inshore the valve would be capped , off shore the cap removed and a 120V (they work longer) maceriator pump could be used with a vented waste loop.

Unlimited waste removal , and an easy to service pump out pump.

Except it may be a bear to retrofit.

 

[Tony B]

here's a thread that popped up the other day under "Other Trawler Syatems"

http://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/s31/shameless-promotion-24613.html

Before you change or update your MSD, buy this book!
I installer a Purasan system over a year ago. We have been living aboard on several different boats over a period of 20 years. This by far has been the best boat improvement I have ever made. I can't imaging ever having another boat without it.
NO PUMPOUTS! How much is that worth to you?
Have company aboard that never used a boat toilet before? - just push one button and thats it.

Dont be paranoid - the govt is not going to shut you down. If you are coastal or on an inland navigable waterway that flows into another navigable waterway, more than likely you will be legal.thare are actually very few restrictions. Most of what you hear are urban legends.

 

[38ark]

I tossed my holding tank, hoses, y valves, and the head and installed a Natures Head composting toilet and am very happy with it. Another brand is the Airhead. They are great.

 

[Tony B]

I tossed my holding tank, hoses, y valves, and the head and installed a Natures Head composting toilet and am very happy with it. Another brand is the Airhead. They are great.

I am on another forum where a woman and her husband built their own houseboat and they also installed natures Head and love it.

 

[Mule]

I lived with an airhead for 2 years. Ok, for a weekender. Not so good for a live aboard in my view. If you (broke the law) and had urine piped directly overboard would make it better.

Very, very good for second head for guest that has limited use.

 

[HeadMistress]

The BEST system is one that doesn't collect or store waste aboard--a USCG certified treatment device that treats and discharges each flush.

The idea that it's ecologically superior to store toilet waste in a tank that must be pumped out and then taken to a sewage treatment plant where it will more than likely be dumped into the water UNtreated the next time it rains is ludicrous! I've always considered it the ultimate irony that the very day RI's statewide NDZ went into a effect, a huge sewage spill from the sewage treatment plant in Providence closed all the shellfish beds and beaches at that end of Narragansett Bay for a week! All the boats with toilets in the state flushing directly overboard simultaeously couldn't have done that!

 

[refugio]

Thanks for the heads up on Peggy's new book! Just ordered it.


Keith

 

[FF]

"The BEST system is one that doesn't collect or store waste aboard--a USCG certified treatment device that treats and discharges each flush."

Although the frequent failure of municipal systems is well known ,

I do wonder how grinding waste into fine particles , adding (creating) a bit of chlorene and dumping the mix over the side does anything , except sell grinding boxes.

Sure its USCG "approved" , but cleaner than an actual working municipal system?

I doubt it.

With a long time on the water,, I think direct discharge has fewer problems than the politicians allow.