Blue Water Capable

[calicojack767]

Been on TF for a bit now and have seen lots of great debate on many topics. My question is this......aside from Kady Krogans and Nordhavens, what are other boat brands that offer a trawler that can cross an ocean without the added price for just those two name brands?

 

[Larry M]

Diesel Ducks come to mind.

Diesel Ducks Home Page

 

[menzies]

Been on TF for a bit now and have seen lots of great debate on many topics. My question is this......aside from Kady Krogans and Nordhavens, what are other boat brands that offer a trawler that can cross an ocean without the added price for just those two name brands?

Direct, meaning Bermuda-Azores-Portugal.

Or also potentially the northern route. Up the East Coast, Newfoundland, Greenland, Iceland, Ireland?

The latter could expand the number of boats that could do it.

 

[calicojack767]

Direct, meaning Bermuda-Azores-Portugal.

Or also potentially the northern route. Up the East Coast, Newfoundland, Greenland, Iceland, Ireland?

The latter could expand the number of boats that could do it.

From west to east the northern route, upon return the portugal/azores/bermuda/US.....basically a boat capable of doing it all that is not a KK or Nord.

 

[sunchaser]

From west to east the northern route, upon return the portugal/azores/bermuda/US.....basically a boat capable of doing it all that is not a KK or Nord.

The list of less than 70' power boats that are ocean rated to do this, with sensible fuel management practices, is surprisingly long. About 20 come to mind built in Europe, Turkey, Australia, Taiwan, China and New Zealand. Many ocean rated builders have gone broke in this small market.

The number of power boaters that really want to do serious +2,000 nm blue water voyaging is surprisingly short. Suggest you look up what an Ocean rated vessel must be built to do, realizing that this results in an expensive vessel that few can afford or need. For a few months of interesting nautical reading on blue water building and cruising, go to the Set Sail website.

BTW, sail boaters doing serious blue water cruising outnumber power boaters by many multiples. There are reasons for this.

 

[JCM-Houston]

Selene.

 

[AndrewAdams]

The Willard 30's been to Bermuda and back, the Willard 36 to Hawaii and back. Beebe mentions the Willard 40 as being a passagemaker, and it's one of the most affordable.

 

[BandB]

Outer Reef. Some Horizon and Cheoy Lee models. Selene was mentioned above.

 

[OldDan1943]

People have been crossing the ocean in very small boats for centuries. Of course, you have to open the hatch and stand up to pee. Plus the menu sort of sucks too.
There are many non-branded aka one off custom blue water boats that can cross comfortably.
If your budget allows you 2 million dollars, that expands the possibilities.
Only you and your mate can make the decision of how much "comfort" you can afford.
If 3 people give you 3 different brands of boats, you buy one and half way across it breaks down or sinks, you will not be happy. You might even mutter some bad words and say, "I should have bought a different brand" and or, "I shouldn't have listen to him."
Dont forget your skill level.....
I've crossed the ocean in 425ft submarine and a destroyer about the same length. I have crossed the ocean on a large cruise liner too.
Which would I recommend? I still favor the submarine. SMIRK

 

[syjos]

Used Northern Marine.

 

[Daddyo]

DeFever

 

[calicojack767]

Thanks for all the information.....I am asking for a particular reason......my plan is when the time comes I do want to travel A LOT....mostly what I buy will be used to bounce up and down coast lines east coast at first, Bahamas and such.....eventually though I do want to cross to do the same around Europe, and if Im not dead or infirm possibly repeat in South America, the far east and/or the pacific. I dont want to pay for a service to do it since where's the adventure in that? Do I plan to criss cross open water repeatedly.....no way, but I want the option if, if with the proper preparation the boat can do so. For centuries people have crossed the oceans with a hell of a lot less technology and know how, so my rational is with the right boat, a strict adherence weather safety, and training it can be done. While I respect the dangers involved its something Ive always wanted to do......I spent 22 yrs in the military, jumped out of planes, been to war 3 times, and been a cop just as long, so I am extremely aware of associated inherent dangers, but none of the listed things stopped me from living life. So that being said I am spending the next years learning, but in the end I want to make sure the boat I buy can do it if I choose. Budget will be determined before I buy but Ive read 100's of times on here that KK and Nord prices are jacked up for the name so I want to expand my searches. Ive read voyaging under power, and world cruising routes, and this forum and have learned a lot so again I say thank you again for the input so far.......btw I would NEVER get in a submarine, wont set foot on a cruise ship and I dont want to sail.....I was in the Army not the Navy or Marines lol!

 

[caltexflanc]

The initial price of the boat is the least of your expenses for the cruising you describe.

 

[calicojack767]

Understand it will cost money but its going to hopefully be over a long period of time not all at once, but at a minimum I want to do some of Caribbean and Med......the rest will be dependent on funds, life occurrences etc.

 

[mvweebles]

Suggest you bone-up on what systems are designed for ocean crossing. Many people think hull and superstructure. If you hit a perfect storm, that's important. By far most likely (though of lessor impact) is some sort of mechanical failure. Engine, transmission, fuel, prop, fire, flooding, etc. You then get into cosmetics like leaks - both interior and deck/core leaks. Once understood, the price on the premium brands comes into focus. These boats are expensive for a reason - check out their fuel delivery and electrical systems.

 

[FF]

"For centuries people have crossed the oceans with a hell of a lot less technology and know how, so my rational is with the right boat, a strict adherence weather safety, and training it can be done."


True but they did it in sail boats usually 25 to 45 ft long that have different more robust scantlings. The name brand world power cruisers are 3x as much as lakes and baysinshore boats their built to a different cruising concept , and outfitted for the task. Cruising or racing sailboats have been knocked down to having the mast in the water , with no harm.


Look at the deck house to deck connection , or window glass size to get an idea of the difference.


Yes, there are cruisers that completed a circumnavigation and never saw over 35K of wind, but most saw months of waiting for the proper season to go outside.

 

[Tom.B]

Honestly............ Learn to sail. :-D

 

[Dan_can]

Thanks for all the information.....I am asking for a particular reason......my plan is when the time comes I do want to travel A LOT....mostly what I buy will be used to bounce up and down coast lines east coast at first, Bahamas and such.....eventually though I do want to cross to do the same around Europe, and if Im not dead or infirm possibly repeat in South America, the far east and/or the pacific. I dont want to pay for a service to do it since where's the adventure in that? Do I plan to criss cross open water repeatedly.....no way, but I want the option if, if with the proper preparation the boat can do so. For centuries people have crossed the oceans with a hell of a lot less technology and know how, so my rational is with the right boat, a strict adherence weather safety, and training it can be done. While I respect the dangers involved its something Ive always wanted to do......I spent 22 yrs in the military, jumped out of planes, been to war 3 times, and been a cop just as long, so I am extremely aware of associated inherent dangers, but none of the listed things stopped me from living life. So that being said I am spending the next years learning, but in the end I want to make sure the boat I buy can do it if I choose. Budget will be determined before I buy but Ive read 100's of times on here that KK and Nord prices are jacked up for the name so I want to expand my searches. Ive read voyaging under power, and world cruising routes, and this forum and have learned a lot so again I say thank you again for the input so far.......btw I would NEVER get in a submarine, wont set foot on a cruise ship and I dont want to sail.....I was in the Army not the Navy or Marines lol!

I started to look into sailboats and if the idea is freedom to go anywhere (to a reasonable degree of course), sailboats are the way to go (unless you have really deep pockets and can afford other types of motor yachts). In my modest opinion, a blue water sailboat is more affordable and capable (provided you know how to sail). This is the way I’m going.

 

[twistedtree]

Outer Reef. Some Horizon and Cheoy Lee models. Selene was mentioned above.

Just curious, would those really be any less expensive?

 

[twistedtree]

I think the acceptable boat size has a huge impact on the possible models. Sub-80’ will be a very different size list from Sub-60, and again from Sub-50’.

And since you ask because of cost, I’m assuming you are probably in the sub-60 range. That will rule out a bunch of possibilities, like Northern Marine, who would otherwise be strong candidates.

If you are looking for lower cost, but similar size, I suspect diesel duck is your best bet.

 

[sunchaser]

TT, I've spent time on Northern Marine 57 and they seem a likely candidate. That said, no less money than a Nordhavn 55 though but a bit faster.

 

[FF]

Age and interests have to be worked into the cruising equation.

When in my 30's a month crossing some big water was a great adventure ,delightful sitting in a cockpit at sunrise seeing the sun thru the tops of the waves. Self steering doing the work.

Now in my late 70's I still love cruising , but no longer enjoy the long passages , so concept of "dream boat" has changed.

Today I dream of a "box boat" 39ft long , 7.6 ft wide with a box keel and reverse deadrise under body .
A NJ Sea Skiff that would fit into a std closed cargo container.

The boat could spend a week or a month crossing big distances , I would fly.

With the box keel the boat would sit upright in the container with simple wedging , could be rolled out on wood or pipe rollers and reinforced chain plates would allow a simple hoist launch.

Dry stack ,keel cooled , so cold during shipping ,cruising or in storage would be no hassle.

It would be constructed of welded aluminum , outfitted very simply and powered with a Kubota .

Under 100HP is still legal for a non electric injected diesel.

I think with a bunch of searching for a builder the complete vessel could be built for under $100,000 US dollars .

Turkey looked interesting till it was taken over by a nut case. Poland is now too expensive.

 

[mvweebles]

If you are looking for lower cost, but similar size, I suspect diesel duck is your best bet.

Threads like this put a lot of stock in hull design and construction. The DD is certainly a tank. But the support systems - mechanical, fuel, electric, etc. - are less obvious. Builders like PAE/Nordhavn (Power); Amel (Sail); and Dashew (Sail and Power) spend a lot of time/money with R&D to get the design and installation right. Most folks I've met in the sales/design end of the bluewater boat community are long on passion and ability to run a custom manufacturing business, but I don't recall meeting many who continuously stress-test their products, either directly like Dashew or through their user community as does PAE.

Speaking of the Chinese built steel boats, where does DD stack-up on systems and installations?

Peter

 

[BandB]

Just curious, would those really be any less expensive?

I didn't agree with his premise that KK and Nordhavn somehow had added price due to their names. I think they're priced to market but the price also reflects the cost of building such a boat. The ones I mentioned might be marginally less expensive, but not significantly.

 

[Solly]

Every time this comes up I wonder why nobody considers converting an ocean fishing boat.... The seaworthiness and reliability is proven. Might be harder to find one.
Comfort could be made as fine as your pocketbook could afford.
I'm thinking the price would be about the same. You do get what you pay for. No way around that...

 

[DDW]

Before you commit a lot of money and time to a boat optimized to cross oceans, I suggest getting a berth on a small power boat doing an ocean crossing (or even a small sailboat). You may find it not as glamorous or adventurous as you suppose. "Long periods of boredom interspersed with moments of sheer terror" is one description, to which I might add days of discomfort. Freed from that requirement, you might find a suitable coastal cruising yacht that is more comfortable most of the time, and less costly.

If set on this route, I think the Dashew boats are probably the best you can do.

 

[Wxx3]

From west to east the northern route, upon return the portugal/azores/bermuda/US.....basically a boat capable of doing it all that is not a KK or Nord.

Good luck with that return.

You should range of 3,000 nm one way or another.

Now as to the premium cost. What you are paying for is a boat that is actually designed and manufactured with the ocean in mind. It needs to be an inherently stable boat that can take and 25 foot wave on the beam and not sink.

I looked a many one off boats that had the range. They were not significantly cheaper than Kadey Krogens and had many trade-offs that I did not like to make them ocean capable.

Don't get me wrong, they were very ocean capable, but just not as live-able as the KK is.

Good luck.

 

[Captain DJ]

Malahide and Romsdal Trawlers

Been on TF for a bit now and have seen lots of great debate on many topics. My question is this......aside from Kady Krogans and Nordhavens, what are other boat brands that offer a trawler that can cross an ocean without the added price for just those two name brands?

https://www.boatsonline.com.au/boats-for-sale/used/power-boats/romsdal-55-trawler/228212

These massively built boats seem quite capable with slow turning and efficient Rolls Royce or Gardner diesels. Large capacity fuel and low fuel burn accompanied by a high order of ultimate stability and often rigged with paravanes or other forms of passive stabilizers these are always on my mind for serious Blue Water crossings on a beer budget.

There may even be a safety factor to having an old boat appearance in some harbours.

https://vimeo.com/302509427

 

[nmuir]

I know it is not addressing the question you asked but I have been asking myself similar questions. I have done major blue water crossings in sailboats so appreciated the challenges and the potential appeal of doing them in a trawler. However as a prior poster said, as he gets older the idea of long passages gets less appealing. Same for me. I am moving towards the idea of purchasing and then re-selling a boat in the targeted destinations (such as the Med) versus doing an Atlantic crossing to get there. One would lose out on tax and a bit of depreciation but it may be worth it if the goal is to cruise a distance location versus the goal being the passage itself. Naturally YMMV.

 

[MOJO]

Robert Beebe designed m/v MOJO is ocean capable. www.mvmojo.com