Boat issues found after the survey and deal closed

[ManoBoat]

Seeing a number of threads with folks talking about problems they are trying to solve that were not found during a survey, some asking about recourse on the surveyor.

Many folks are not listing what was not found so would like to ask for members to help us prospective buyers know what was missed to help us achieve a better end.

What was missed by your or the surveyor's inspection? What did you do to fix the issue?

 

[psneeld]

Severe hydrolysis and blistering of the bottom. Ground the entire bottom paint/gel coat off..... repaired 6 foot by 6 foot area of severe hydrolysis/delamination, rebuilt with alternating layers of woven fabric and cloth, Interprotect 2000 about 6 coats and bottom painted.

I specifically told the surveyor that I didn't care about cosmetics or little stuff....just find showstoppers. He missed a big one.

Fortunately it didn't cost a lot because I did it myself. I would see how others would have been out a lot of money.

 

[firehoser75]

First off, I am not a lawyer, so take this with a grain of salt and do your own research.
Most surveyors have disclaimers in their contracts/paperwork that could make it difficult to "hold them accountable", if they are not willing to admit their error(s). Also this would depend on the exact local/state(provincial)/national laws that are applicable in your jurisdiction. However, going to court is usually not a win in any shape of the word, and could end up throwing good money after bad......but could be a consideration (depending on circumstances).
If the issues that were missed are egregious (expensive and should be obvious to a trained surveyor), possibly contacting the accrediting body that this surveyor belongs to would be at least worth a phone call or email, and if "bad enough" contacting a marine lawyer for advice would be in order??
Unfortunately this could end up being a case of "buyer beware" both for the choosing of the surveyor as well as choosing the boat.
Sorry to hear about your situation!! Good luck.

 

[Portage_Bay]

• Fuel lines when disturbed cracked and failed. On CAT 3208 NA the engine mounted fuel filter has to be moved to pull the expansion tanks. Moving the filters the lines were brittle and broke open.
• Severe bonding system failure misidentified as over zinced.
• Port strut slightly bend, not obvious to the eye, binding the shaft. Discovered when replacing PSS seals. Prop could not be turned by hand.
• Numerous leaks in the hydraulic steering system. Cross threaded fittings. Final solution was 100% replacement of the lines, most of the fittings.
• Negative (-) side of the DC system was a complete mess. Rebuilt.

A combination of expensive findings that should have been found by the hull and condition or the mechanical surveyor. That experience taught me that a survey, even by the best, is not worth as much as going over the boat myself with a fine toothed comb.

Next boat. I did better this time. Told the seller I needed a lot of time on the boat, alone, going over everything.

• The starboard alternator was pronounced dead. I found out after purchase it was an inline fuse, 60 AMP for a 90 AMP alternator labeled "Watermaker"
• 1,2,Both switch incorrectly wired. Truly bizarre wiring that resulted in dead start batts and no charge going into the house bank from the engines. That problem was partly identified during survey. Seller replaced the start batts. I straightened out the mess. Clearing these two items gave me a system that while not ideal at least works.
• DC system a complete pile of spaghetti. With dozens of abandoned wires, switches that don't do anything, old failing light fixtures being used as junction boxes. The only comment by the surveyor was the wired need to be supported every 18"

The truth is a surveyor will be on your boat for 4 to 6 hours. It is not possible to find all faults in that little time especially on an older boat.

 

[Jeff F]

Unfortunately this could end up being a case of "buyer beware" both for the choosing of the surveyor as well as choosing the boat.

Yeah, very much so.

My only unexpected experience: I had a cascading set of instrumentation failures on the maiden voyage of one of my boats. Root cause was a bad connection on the heavy ground cable from the panel. The boat had a 1500w inverter which the previous owner had used for the fridge only. The only connection to ground was through the engine wiring harness, and when I plugged a coffee maker in the harness started melting down. It wasn't a cheap fix, or even an easy diagnosis at first.

It never occurred to me to blame myself (except for ignoring the initial symptoms), the surveyor or even the PO. Sometimes stuff happens, and often a change in use patterns can uncover new gremlins.

Lots of this is contextual. There are surveyors who will supervise new builds to provide assurances to the owner. But they're not too interested in 30 year old 100k boats.

If you are in the latter category my advice to most prospective buyers is to lower your expectations and budget some money for post-purchase surprises.

 

[Comodave]

When I am buying a boat I always go spend at least a day, if it is a larger boat, and poke around on the boat. Most times the surveyor has not found anything of significance that I didn’t already find. But insurance and the banks require a survey so I have them done. So if I miss an item and the surveyor misses I figure that the blame is partly mine so I say ok, then fix it. Most of the surveyors disclaimers say something like they will only refund the cost of the survey, so that isn’t worth messing with.

 

[Lepke]

Don't expect perfection. I always find many things the surveyors miss, in my boats and others. Especially wood boats, engine rooms, and electrical.
But the surveyor doesn't really have the time. He verifies everything works and the obvious problems are covered. Most learned their trade out of a book, not experience. And wood boats require a very experienced wood boat surveyor. I've found obvious termites several places in a wood boat that passed.
Taking a surveyor to court won't gain anything.
Today the purpose of a surveyor is to placate banks and insurance companies with employees that know even less than the surveyor.

 

[SteveK]

Between the survey and my own inspection, nothing else has been found since purchase two years ago. As others, I cannot say the survey had anything that caught me by surprise. I would recommend boat and mechaical surveyors.

 

[Comodave]

I can do a pretty good inspection on a boat. I actually had 2 different surveyors ask me why I wasn’t a surveyor but boating is my passion and hobby so I never wanted to make it a business.

 

[psneeld]

One can often find things wrong after a surveyor.

Much like buying a brand new boat, defects and issues can be out of sight and impossible to detect without days of use or taking things apart.

It would be the rare owner that will permit the surveyor to take core samples from many parts of the boat (even if he repairs them or pays to). Also taking things apart or being able to get into well sealed blind compartment areas are not often common things done.

An example of what a surveyor might do but many don't.... would be take the faceplate off a 110V wall outlet. Not doing it and just checking it with a tester just often shows it works. Yes.... a low voltage might show a high resistance connection, or using a thermal imager may show heat if left on long enough. However, it doesn't show already discolored wires, or poor connections/connectors, possibly undersized/unapproved wires, etc that all could lead to issues the day/week after the survey.

So I have a suspicion that many surveyors follow a simple rule of thumb. Start with the year/make/model and that gives them a head start on known problem areas. Then move on to general maintenance....high to low....how will that affect long term problems arising? Then it's methodically checking for operation of on/off items and things that need to move. If any warning signs pop up during the inspection it's hit or miss if they just note it or dig deep enough to say whether it's cosmetic, the start of a problem or maybe a showstopper for the average purchaser.

A survey is something like an annual health check. The doc looks for all the normal indicators of a healthy person...but there are many tests not done unless there is a reason to.... like a symptom or complaint If a lot of obvious indicators make you look healthy and questions and basic tests say you are probably healthy....most of the time you get a lollypop and off ya go.

Don't worry, I often don't discuss other professions, but one can apply this to any profession that requires diagnostics. They all are limited in some ways to guarantee any diagnosis to be 100%.

 

[sunchaser]

Boats are complicated, more so today as an increasing number of vessels are either designed or modified to be floating electronic toys. Few surveyors have the skills to assess these systems so the weasel words start flowing.

I’ve two good friends who own Nordhavns with electronics and electrical systems that were seriously modified by previous owners. No surveyor comments were specific for these systems instead speaking to compliance to ABYC in endless droning paragraphs specific for CYA and insurance issues.

In one case the owner sold the problematic boat and bought a new Nordhavn. In the other, a major redo of the boat’s previous electronics was required as patch jobs had corrupted the basic usability of the boat’s onboard systems.

Then comes the over reliance of a surveyor’s findings, which as noted in previous poster’s comments is nothing more than a CYA by the surveyor. The happiest boaters I know in this regard are smart experienced mariners who have lots of experience from which to make rational purchase decisions.

Whether TF or other boating websites the “get a surveyor” advice all too often becomes a mantra that pushes necessary experience and common sense aside. Then when the surveyor’s findings prove lacking inexperienced new owners are shocked.

So, excuse my long winded answer, but the OP’s question raises the common specter of who advises and how findings are used regarding new boat purchases. A new inexperienced owner is in for a surprise or two and all too often wondering who to blame.

 

[ManoBoat]

All great feedback and a number of solid recommendations. Please keep the info coming, many different scenarios can happen for pre-boat inspecting and seeing things that a surveyor or even very seasoned boater found after the sale makes for a nice list to have handy for future purchase.

Thank you

 

[more]

i just sell 1 my boat,today 16.00 I receive money.
contract I made in 4 page. on english and croatian
signed .1 of
Both parties agreed as follows: The Buyer is buying a Ship owned by the Seller. The buyer accepts the purchase of the ship under the terms and conditions of this contract. The ship is sold in "seen-purchased" condition.
i just make tabular statement for tomorrow.

you don't buy new boat with warranty,next time better look around.

 

[Mambo42]

The most important thing that happened to me was that I had two electricians stating the wiring onboard was absolutely perfect. However, when I had to change the engines I found out the wiring was absolutely dangerous. Heavy cables were falling apart, just crumbling, but it had been the insulating material that had kept it all together.
So in the end had to change all the wiring, pretty expensive operation, but am glad I did it, could have ended in a fire.