Boat Monitoring and electronic update

[nautibeaver]

Ok, let me sum up things. First, one camp has it where nothing is connected to the internet, nothing digital, nothing wireless. And nothing that could change in the next 5 years. I respect that. Don't understand it and not my thing, but ok.

This redundancy talk, well I agree too, actually I'm 70% there, but luckily, I head the advice of people that have been in the world of boating longer than I. I have explained I have manual switches in the event of failure as redundancy. However if it dies, I would be sans my wipers, horn, defrost, AP, and a few other non critical items. Even if I did not have redundancy. Yet, a few people act as as if I am killing the sacred cow.

Example, I have 2 x mac Mimi's running noble tech, a Furuno as a back up. I have two engines, two generators, two of most of that. I get the need to not screwed if things go wrong. But.....outside of a couple of people here, who plan on ocean crossings, the mentality is lost on me. Life and death things make since. If my engines stop functioning, I need the ability to possible drop anchors, call for help (I have multiple VHFs.) But while I have spent time in Alaska on my boat, I would suggest that is about as remote as 90% of us get. We are all sub 1 day from rescue. Why is that anti tech world high road out there.

I also remind people that, for me, I was going through a refit, needed to upgrade my electronics and because I am not on my boat for weeks at a time choose to find new ways of using technology to save cost improve usage and help me accomplish things I would often forget.

Here is where I find this argument interesting. I don't buy any argument against PLCs, at all. They are rock solid, I would also argue that the PLC is more stable and has less bugs than any N2k because you typically buy a closed system when it comes to the software.

Again if you engine starts (mine are not), gen starts, hydros, or other key life or death systems are utilizing the PLC digital switches. You should have a plan "b", but everything else is repairable, and not life or death by any means. Even if your a few days out from help. We are not talking about rudder controls on Ann airplane, although those on newer plans are fly by wire with those. Re dangled computers, PLCs, and custom code.

The other part of my post showed the key items of leveraging wifi, the internet, cloud based apps. These are purely for convenience and I put on to save some cost. Some nice to haves (cameras). But are designed for security, peace of mind, and safety (knowing when the bilge has more water than expected), or protection of dollars already spent, like shore power being available so my batteries don't get discharged.

I offer the project up for those who like to see newer technology, to see another point of view. It is disheartens to know, behind the shiny glass/plastic screen, people are turning their noses up at what is possible and what might even save them some boat dollars.

Thanks for the time, and readying this post, I do value multiple views, it's how we all learn.

I just wonder how many people should step a little out of their comfort zone especially when they typically never travel much more that a day from help. It sure makes life a bit more fun.

I'll go back to changing my RGBW lights on my FlyBridge while sipping my "old fashion." [emoji56]

 

[O C Diver]

Ok, let me sum up things. First, one camp has it where nothing is connected to the internet, nothing digital, nothing wireless. And nothing that could change in the next 5 years. I respect that. Don't understand it and not my thing, but ok.

This redundancy talk, well I agree too, actually I'm 70% there, but luckily, I head the advice of people that have been in the world of boating longer than I. I have explained I have manual switches in the event of failure as redundancy. However if it dies, I would be sans my wipers, horn, defrost, AP, and a few other non critical items. Even if I did not have redundancy. Yet, a few people act as as if I am killing the sacred cow.

Example, I have 2 x mac Mimi's running noble tech, a Furuno as a back up. I have two engines, two generators, two of most of that. I get the need to not screwed if things go wrong. But.....outside of a couple of people here, who plan on ocean crossings, the mentality is lost on me. Life and death things make since. If my engines stop functioning, I need the ability to possible drop anchors, call for help (I have multiple VHFs.) But while I have spent time in Alaska on my boat, I would suggest that is about as remote as 90% of us get. We are all sub 1 day from rescue. Why is that anti tech world high road out there.

I also remind people that, for me, I was going through a refit, needed to upgrade my electronics and because I am not on my boat for weeks at a time choose to find new ways of using technology to save cost improve usage and help me accomplish things I would often forget.

Here is where I find this argument interesting. I don't buy any argument against PLCs, at all. They are rock solid, I would also argue that the PLC is more stable and has less bugs than any N2k because you typically buy a closed system when it comes to the software.

Again if you engine starts (mine are not), gen starts, hydros, or other key life or death systems are utilizing the PLC digital switches. You should have a plan "b", but everything else is repairable, and not life or death by any means. Even if your a few days out from help. We are not talking about rudder controls on Ann airplane, although those on newer plans are fly by wire with those. Re dangled computers, PLCs, and custom code.

The other part of my post showed the key items of leveraging wifi, the internet, cloud based apps. These are purely for convenience and I put on to save some cost. Some nice to haves (cameras). But are designed for security, peace of mind, and safety (knowing when the bilge has more water than expected), or protection of dollars already spent, like shore power being available so my batteries don't get discharged.

I offer the project up for those who like to see newer technology, to see another point of view. It is disheartens to know, behind the shiny glass/plastic screen, people are turning their noses up at what is possible and what might even save them some boat dollars.

Thanks for the time, and readying this post, I do value multiple views, it's how we all learn.

I just wonder how many people should step a little out of their comfort zone especially when they typically never travel much more that a day from help. It sure makes life a bit more fun.

I'll go back to changing my RGBW lights on my FlyBridge while sipping my "old fashion." [emoji56]

Think you missed the point of a lot of this. There are those of us who started when loran C cost over $1K 40 years ago. It only gave your current position. We used paper charts, parallel rules, and depth sounders that burned paper. We have been evolving for decades. Forgive us for not changing this year instead of next, or the year after. Here's my perspective : I'm doing a big trip this year, the Great Loop. Everything I've got works just fine. Why would I want to change, risk having problems, for no significant advantage? Maybe a year or two from now it will be standard on all new builds over $200K, there will be more hardware and software players in the game, the features will increase , and prices may drop. But right now it offers no features that I don't have, only conveniences.

One last thing, we all live and boat in the comfort zone. Tryi doing it with a paper chart, a compass, and a position only GPS. That would be stepping out of the comfort zone.

Ted

 

[nautibeaver]

Think you missed the point of a lot of this. There are those of us who started when loran C cost over $1K 40 years ago. It only gave your current position. We used paper charts, parallel rules, and depth sounders that burned paper. We have been evolving for decades. Forgive us for not changing this year instead of next, or the year after. Here's my perspective : I'm doing a big trip this year, the Great Loop. Everything I've got works just fine. Why would I want to change, risk having problems, for no significant advantage? Maybe a year or two from now it will be standard on all new builds over $200K, there will be more hardware and software players in the game, the features will increase , and prices may drop. But right now it offers no features that I don't have, only conveniences.

One last thing, we all live and boat in the comfort zone. Tryi doing it with a paper chart, a compass, and a position only GPS. That would be stepping out of the comfort zone.

Ted

No point missed. I wanted to share what I had done. Nowhere did I say, you must all go that route. I even understand those that won't put in garage door opener are never the candidate for this type of things. The thread was started to just share something that was accomplished. Turned into a little more than that, but good news is it's here on the internet for someone else who would want to do something like this in the future to see.

Each to their own, enjoy your trip, sounds fun.

 

[GregBrannon]

I appreciate that you shared your experience.

 

[ksanders]

Ok, let me sum up things. First, one camp has it where nothing is connected to the internet, nothing digital, nothing wireless. And nothing that could change in the next 5 years. I respect that. Don't understand it and not my thing, but ok.

This redundancy talk, well I agree too, actually I'm 70% there, but luckily, I head the advice of people that have been in the world of boating longer than I. I have explained I have manual switches in the event of failure as redundancy. However if it dies, I would be sans my wipers, horn, defrost, AP, and a few other non critical items. Even if I did not have redundancy. Yet, a few people act as as if I am killing the sacred cow.

Example, I have 2 x mac Mimi's running noble tech, a Furuno as a back up. I have two engines, two generators, two of most of that. I get the need to not screwed if things go wrong. But.....outside of a couple of people here, who plan on ocean crossings, the mentality is lost on me. Life and death things make since. If my engines stop functioning, I need the ability to possible drop anchors, call for help (I have multiple VHFs.) But while I have spent time in Alaska on my boat, I would suggest that is about as remote as 90% of us get. We are all sub 1 day from rescue. Why is that anti tech world high road out there.

I also remind people that, for me, I was going through a refit, needed to upgrade my electronics and because I am not on my boat for weeks at a time choose to find new ways of using technology to save cost improve usage and help me accomplish things I would often forget.

Here is where I find this argument interesting. I don't buy any argument against PLCs, at all. They are rock solid, I would also argue that the PLC is more stable and has less bugs than any N2k because you typically buy a closed system when it comes to the software.

Again if you engine starts (mine are not), gen starts, hydros, or other key life or death systems are utilizing the PLC digital switches. You should have a plan "b", but everything else is repairable, and not life or death by any means. Even if your a few days out from help. We are not talking about rudder controls on Ann airplane, although those on newer plans are fly by wire with those. Re dangled computers, PLCs, and custom code.

The other part of my post showed the key items of leveraging wifi, the internet, cloud based apps. These are purely for convenience and I put on to save some cost. Some nice to haves (cameras). But are designed for security, peace of mind, and safety (knowing when the bilge has more water than expected), or protection of dollars already spent, like shore power being available so my batteries don't get discharged.

I offer the project up for those who like to see newer technology, to see another point of view. It is disheartens to know, behind the shiny glass/plastic screen, people are turning their noses up at what is possible and what might even save them some boat dollars.

Thanks for the time, and readying this post, I do value multiple views, it's how we all learn.

I just wonder how many people should step a little out of their comfort zone especially when they typically never travel much more that a day from help. It sure makes life a bit more fun.

I'll go back to changing my RGBW lights on my FlyBridge while sipping my "old fashion." [emoji56]

Nautibeaver, I think you are doing fine. While I will never choose to automate my boat to the level that you are automating yours, I think that done with an eye towards reliability you can have a successful installation.

The only advice I can provide, as a guy that has spent a lifetime time in the oil and electrical SCADA world...

Be wary about single points of failure. Distribute your processes to make any potential outage as small as possible, or build in redundancy. Things are going to malfunction on your boat. They are not going to malfunction on a nice sunny day. They are going to malfunction when you are getting tossed around, and your stomach is upset, and your crew is already scared.

That is not a time when it would be fun to break out your laptop and start troubleshooting.

And BTW I do not have a problem with PLC's. I do not have a problem using industrial transducers as opposed to N2K. In fact I always kinda wondered whey they even came up with N2K when in the industrial world we already have instrumentation standards and communications protocol standards, and networking standards. Geez they act like they invented automation, but we've had Modbus since what the 70's? Yes it is outdated but we have a little thing called DNP that works over ethernet just fine (as does Modbus BTW).
But alas, thats a rant for another day.

 

[Northern Spy]

And BTW I do not have a problem with PLC's. I do not have a problem using industrial transducers as opposed to N2K. In fact I always kinda wondered whey they even came up with N2K when in the industrial world we already have instrumentation standards and communications protocol standards, and networking standards. Geez they act like they invented automation, but we've had Modbus since what the 70's? Yes it is outdated but we have a little thing called DNP that works over ethernet just fine (as does Modbus BTW).
But alas, thats a rant for another day.

100%

I'd guess most of the hesitancy to automation on a boat is due to the lousy, yes lousy, way that NMEA created and rolled out their proprietary systems.

Anyone who has worked in industry realizes that NMEA 2000 is a protectionist measure to keep the monopoly of existing manufacturers in place; not to improve the end product.

Boats, especially trawlers, are comparatively simple, low tech, and not that difficult of an environment.

I predict they will lose to the iPad. Way to many smart people out there with disruptive ideas to make the end product better. Heck, that's how most of the PC based navigation systems started.

Keep up the good work!

 

[BigJim]

I have worked on industrial automation and controls for thirty + years. My SCADA or PLC systems monitor and control tens of thousands of control points in high rise buildings, hospitals, colleges and other institutional or industrial settings.

I do access control and have hundreds of doors, with RF readers that have to work, 100's of times per day 24/7.

After infighting to get away from proprietary communications protocols the controls industry has finally embraced a common peer to peer network protocol. (Bacnet)

Now we can purchase and install anyones sensor or output device.

If redundancy is required as in the case of a fire alarm, all devices are supervised and report a trouble or we hard wire the device with 2 pairs of wires that take different paths to the device.

The reliability is there, it is a matter of how much do you want to pay for it. In the OP case, do his battery powered sensors transmit a low battery alert, or do they just fail?

My industry for years fought for proprietary communication protocols. Once a robust protocol was agreed on all kinds of good stuff followed and the prices came down.

I think the marine industry is suffering from the same issue. Once there is an agreement those on the sidelines will begin to get their toes wet and may later jump on in. My .02.

 

[twistedtree]

NautiBeaver, I'm sure none of this discussion will dissuade you from powering on with your project, and I hope it won't discourage you from continue to share what you are doing. I for one really enjoy hearing about, and you have given me lots of great ideas for my own boat.