I don't know any couples where "she" is the one that wants to go boating and he goes along to be with her.
Actually, Dan and I are one of those couples.
My root question is how big of a boat?
Markpierce - Love your boat. Looked at the Seahorse Marine Diesel Ducks and saw they made the Coot also. Not sure why they call it a Coot though. Appreciate your input!The 35-foot (1.5 gallon per hour) Coot is perfectly sized for us, but then we don't live aboard. Sleep two; entertain six. (Forward cabin with large bathroom and separate shower, raised pilothouse, generous saloon for the boat's size.)
I think you meant Wade. Thank you Pau Hana for the offer. Where do you moor your boat?Walt, on your plan to purchase in 5-7 years; you may want to take advantage of the down market, and begin your search earlier. You'll get more boat for your money, and (more importantly) have the time to really equip your boat for your long distance cruising plans.
When you have plans to come to Seattle, get ahold of me- be more than happy to give you the nickel tour of our boat.
Peter B - I definitely don't disagree with you but if we bought our boat now, I don't think we would use it enough with working full time AND using our RV. I started retirement planning pretty early and put a good chunk of our income into it. According to our retirement planner, we should actually have a better income at retirement than now. Will that be enough? I dunno but am planning on about $2K per month in maintenance and fuel plus a lump-sum reserve set aside for the unexpected. The world could blow up tomorrow but we still gotta plan and keep ourselves healthy.I always get concerned when I read the above concept of placing all your boating eggs in the basket of retirement. Surely I can't be the only one on here realistic enough to admit I doubt I will be able to afford to keep my boat far into retirement. Why...?
1. They are expensive suckers to maintain, fuel, berth, insure ete, etc...
2. Retirement income tends not to grow as fast as the CPI does
3. By definition, when one retires, one is usually a bit past ones 'best by' date. Sorry, maybe that's the quack in me coming out, but it's the truth. Ones gudgeon pins get a bit sloppy, joints creak, backs ache, lungs seem to get smaller, and hearts get...well...let's just say, a little less hearty...
So what am I getting at. Well, to paraphrase that great character of literature from the top of his kennel, none other than Snoopy himself...."learn from yesterday...live for today...rest this afternoon...look to tomorrow...but not too far ahead...
Yes I have seen that trend as well. What we have found is that we both absolutely LOVE being on the water. But I guess if this boating thing doesn't work out, we'll find out soon enough (through chartering) and have the income to be able to do something else.What Peter said - start NOW. People tend to continue the patterns of their life into retirement. Sure there's the occasional few who make drastic lifestyle changes but most people do the same things they did while they were working, they just stop going to work regularly. So if they did a lot of volunteer work, they keep on doing a lot of volunteer work. If they exercised regularly, they keep on exercising regularly. If they sat on the couch and watched TV, they sit on the couch and watch TV.
Don't wait, do it now.
Thank you Caltexflanc. What you say is absolutely correct. I have spoken to charter companies and they tell me if we don't have the experience, we can take along a captain. When that captain decides we can handle the boat, we can drop him/her off and continue on our charter. I'm leaning more toward an actual multi-day training session however where we stay on the boat and each day, the captain trains us in all the aspects of operating that boat. I believe once we have the training in the similar size boat we'd be chartering, they would allow us to charter other boats that were similar. Realize we may need to do this on a single and a twin but that's ok.FF; What on earth are you talking about??? Getting boats to charter, bareboat or crewed, is VERY easy, in a LARGE number of places with most charter companies offering the services of training captains to teach whatever skill sets are needed to qualify you for bare boating, may take a week, may take several weeks depending on one's abilities. Or there are a number of schools such as Sea Sense and Chapmans that offer various multi day courses that teach all aspects of cruising and running a boat. We loved chartering when we lived in Dallas, no hassles of boat ownership, and we could go cruising in a much wider range of locations than owning a boat and using it part time affords.
Chrisjs - yes I have been concerned with boat handling with just the two of us. Some boats have the full-width salon's so no side decks. I often wonder if that is an issue to line handling. One owner on this forum has a Helmsman 38 PH (beautiful boat, BTW) so maybe they can shed some light on this subject.I think that apart from all other considerations mentioned previously, you really need to consider what size is manageable for 2 persons. I know that other may jump in here and brag how they single-hand a 65ft yacht, but that is not usually the reality!! We find that a 50ft single screw presents enough of a challenge for 2 agile persons. Get much bigger and you start to need a third crew member. Another consideration is deck access. We have side decks that enable us to work the boat from any position. Many boats are stacked up in such a way that you have very limited flexibility when docking. We apprceiate having dock hands (usually dock mates) but this is seldom the case, and you need to be able to do it all from inboard of your vessel. Lastly depending on where you boat, you may have difficulty finding a slip. At our marina and most of those around where we live in New England, there are very few slips that can accommodate vessels much larger than 50ft. So finding one to rent annually or on an itinerant basis can be tough. While 50ft is small in Florida it is quite large in New England!!
Chrisjs wrote;
"you really need to consider what size is manageable for 2 persons."
One can't just "think up" the answer to that. But the experiences of others should be a fair guide but we are all very different. Wife's especially. Some wife's can hardly do anything and some practically take over the boat. My wife is eager to take the helm and run all the other stuff and many don't want any part of it. I remember a flying couple that fought so much over who was going to fly the airplane they had to get another plane. They rarely went separate ways but flew together constantly talking on the radio.
And for the skipper that has a woman that hasn't the desire to do much of anything (crew wise) they usually still do most or all of the cooking and most of the cleaning and many do more than their fair share of painting.
So the lady on the boat has a lot (perhaps more) to do with how big a boat a couple can handle than the man. Many yachtsmen yell at their wife's but/and I think they should be grateful that they come along at all. All the wife's aboard are "going where thou goest" and are on the boat because the man wants to be there. I don't know any couples where "she" is the one that wants to go boating and he goes along to be with her.
On this note, we are building a list of what is important to each of us separately. We'll then go over and see what matches and what doesn't. For what doesn't match, she'll probably get her way.We are one of those couples for sure, though equal in our enthusiasm; Ann was every bit as much a driving force in going cruising or any other "let's go boating" adventure. When we lived in Boca Raton for a short while, she'd rent a small walk-around outboard boat and take her visiting friends and family on boat rides while I was at work.
Operating and maintenace-repair Ergonomics, as mentioned are very important, we are not the most adept, so need all the help we can get from the boat. But just the two of us have cruised many many thousands of miles quite happily, bumbling our way through paradise.
If cruising as a couple, both partners must have equal voice in choice of boat, and choice of days to go boating. Both must know at least the basics of running the boat.
Gosh, so many times in our cruising, we'd meet these unhappy women who were left out of the decision making process, or had never had the opportunity to go cruising before the boat-buying decision was made.
Thank you, Mattkab. Appreciate you sharing your journey. These real life experiences are valuable.Lots of good responses by people with much more experience than I. Just adding my $.02:
Our boats in order of ownership:
28' Catalina Sailboat. Our first "real" boat, my wife and I picked the boat together - she wanted a "real head" and "warmth"; I wanted a sailboat. Nothing wrong with the boat, but we felt it was too small for ourselves plus another couple of friends for any length of time. We only owned it for just over a year
30' Catalina Sailboat. We purchased this boat because we wanted more room. Best decision we made -- we used the boat much more often, and even had guests stay aboard on some overnights.
28' Bayliner Flybridge. I wanted to get a fishing boat, and my wife didn't want to spend $20k on a boat that she didn't want to go out on (remember the "real head"?). Also I broke my elbow, and we had a baby.. so it made sense to sell the sailboat and downsize to a day-tripper. My wife hated this boat. But we used it for daytrips and fishing and to see if we liked powerboating.
34' CHB. We did like powerboating, but neither of us liked going fast -- we had twin 280HP engines, and "cruised" at 6kts (a waste). And our daughter grew up a bit and loves spending the night aboard - so having a longer-range cruiser made sense. Our current boat kinda fell into our laps (friend of a friend was selling for a steal). We have only had it for about a year, but it is MUCH more comfortable than the Bayliner.
So... what did all of this teach us?
First, 28' is too small for how we use our boat. A 28' sailboat, and a 28' flybridge both were too small. And secondly, 30-35' is substantially bigger than a 28, but isn't intimidating.
I sat at the helm of some 40s and 45's at the boat show, and thought about docking with a cross wind or current and almost cried. But for a live-aboard (not in our near-term plans) it would be just about perfect IMO.
36-38 seems like just about the perfect size to me -- The one thing we don't like about the current boat is that it only has one stateroom, and to get it in the configuration we like we need to move up to that size range.
Phil Fill - I agree. When the wife and I talk about boats, she's always looking at it from the comfort, homey-ness of the boat while I'm looking at the mechanical/design perspective. I think though we balance each other out.The creature comforts and the size should be left more to the female, and also the final final say on the boat. If the female does not have the majority and last say on the boat its doubtful that she will enjoy the boat much less come a long. When looking at boats best to follow her lead, and take note of her likes and dislikes. Female are more interested in creature comforts, and safety of the boat. Make sure you understand, her idea future plan of boating as compared to yours.
The only reason we been a live aboad for 15+ years is because my wife had the final say, its her fault we are a live aboard, so she can not cmplain.
Markpierce - Love your boat. Looked at the Seahorse Marine Diesel Ducks and saw they made the Coot also. Not sure why they call it a Coot though. Appreciate your input!
Thanks for the vote of confidence, Caltexflanc. It's funny you should mention stand-up engine rooms because that's on my list. It would be very nice to have but definitely not in prevalence out there.Wade and Maureen, you certainly sound like you have your heads on straight about this. Best of good fortune as you move forward.
She will become more focused on operational ergonomics as you do more boating. In our case, one example for instance is that drove the desire for walk around decks on both our parts. I was determined to have walk in engine rooms because I am big and clumsy, but a side benefit is that they became more welcoming to her.. she can happily do the pre-departure check list, check the batteries etc whereas there was no way she was crawling into the Er of other boats we saw. Other wives are more adventurous on that front.
Anyway, have fun on the journey!
Ungainly: 1. Lacking grace or ease of movement or form; clumsy. 2. Difficult to move or use; unwieldy. Hmmm...doesn't seem like it fits to me. Great lines, stout, strong looks, efficient...It looks ungainly as a Coot.
It looks ungainly as a Coot.
Ungainly: 1. Lacking grace or ease of movement or form; clumsy. 2. Difficult to move or use; unwieldy. Hmmm...doesn't seem like it fits to me. Great lines, stout, strong looks, efficient...
I didn't know Mark well enough to suggest that.Wade, Mark has alluded in the past that the coot may be at the helm
Just kidding Mark
My wife and I are quite capable of handing our boat (60'LOA) by ourselves. We frequently pass through the locks on the Snake and Columbia River without any issues and, in fact, last year on our return trip from Portland, OR, we were the last of 6 boats going into John Day Lock and the first to call in that we were secured to the bollard.I think that apart from all other considerations mentioned previously, you really need to consider what size is manageable for 2 persons. I know that other may jump in here and brag how they single-hand a 65ft yacht, but that is not usually the reality!! We find that a 50ft single screw presents enough of a challenge for 2 agile persons. Get much bigger and you start to need a third crew member.
Yeah, tell me about it. Celebration in the Coot's saloon (hah, hah):Wade, Mark has alluded in the past that the coot may be at the helm
I love the idea of a wooden boat but not the upkeep. I hear that wooden boats are very quiet underway due to the properties of wood being a good insulator.Hi Wade,
This has been a fun thread to watch. I'll throw in a few ideas too:
1) Large boats can be fun, no question about it. But when you get over 60 feet, dockage can be difficult to come by in certain areas. You should definitely have a chat with marinas in the area you keep the boat.
2) Ditto that for boatyards. If you have a 100,000 Lb + boat, that limits the number of Travelifts that can handle her. Wooden boat? Then you need a real marine railway.
I guess I don't know but the way my mind works, the challenge of bringing a larger boat in right where I want it is appealing.3) Do you like boathandling? The larger you get, the more you have to like it. Myself, I love setting up springlines, watching the wind, and putting Island Eagle where she's supposed to be. But for other people, this would be no fun at all, in fact it would be downright terrifying.
Is this the flush-deck model you're referring to? If so, I have had my eye on this model as well. I find it interesting however that boat manufacturers seem to mimic each other's design. For example, this model is very similar to the Marine Trader 50 that we also like very much. Who made which model first I do not know but both have the stretched salon as well. Both have a stand up engine room but the MT50 splits the engine room with a passageway so access to one side of each engine is more limited. I like the DeFever design better.So with your requirements in mind, there are two boats that I would be directing you to take a look at:
First is the DeFever 44/44+5.
These are nice, roomy double cabin boats, not particularly fancy but very well-built. The aft cabin is full-beam, which gives you a very liveable "back porch" on the aft deck. The cabins are well-separated, which is great if you have kids&grandkids (some of them have 4 bunks up front as well). One nice things is that the engineroom has close to full headroom. The 44+5 is the exact same boat with a 5 foot cockpit added on. There are usually about a dozen for sale on YW at any given time.
I'll admit a Grand Banks has a special place for me as it is the first large boat I got a ride in when I was a little kid. If I recall it was a 42 foot Classic but it was long ago so I'm not sure. The only thing we're not really fond of is the aft cabin that is not a full width as it takes away the large aft deck space. That deck space is important to us.Second is the Grand Banks 49 Classic.
These were the "top of the line" Grand Banks when they were built, and they show it. They have two cabins forward, which is nice. The interior and systems were top-notch for the time, and many have been well maintained and lightly used. The engineroom is very roomy and full-headroom. Although they are now mostly about 25 years old, they are beautiful boats and very reasonably priced.
Thank you, Scott. Appreciate the pointers. If you have any other boats that you think is worth looking into, I'd be appreciative of your advice. Of course that goes for all the TF members.Have fun,
Scott Welch
Island Eagle
I'll admit a Grand Banks has a special place for me as it is the first large boat I got a ride in when I was a little kid. If I recall it was a 42 foot Classic but it was long ago so I'm not sure. The only thing we're not really fond of is the aft cabin that is not a full width as it takes away the large aft deck space. That deck space is important to us.