Boating and Cannabis
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OldDan1943
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Perhaps, 3 hour before starting the engines?
backinblue
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That may be true. Also, if you purchase legally in your state, you have to pay with cash because of the federal law that credit cards companies are potentially breaking if they were to fund the purchase.
Hippocampus
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Two issues.
Urine or blood are poor ways to test for a lipid soluble substance such as THC. Unlike water soluble alcohol poor correlation between levels and brain load. Breathalyzers pretty much useless . This has been a major difficulty for law enforcement. From what PS says they and the military does the best they can. Of interest ETOH is both lipid and water soluble so crosses the blood brain barrier easily.
I run a dry boat. I have crew sign a piece of paper delineating my obligations to them and their obligations to me. Included is no intoxicants. In spite of that one crew smuggled nips aboard and was also hitting on my stores in the closed liquor locker. I caught him one night. He was taken off the watch rotation. I allowed him a a measured amount of booze to prevent DTs or withdrawal seizures after seeing him demonstrate early withdrawal symptoms. Of interest although he was financially very successful and quite well educated he was either in denial or by his statement unaware he was addicted.
Peter is right to the extent possible I don’t want to be anyone’s mother nor fill the need to play constant Sherlock Holmes. They have two beers laced with booze they’re impaired. I’m not interested in keeping count how much beer or wine is drunk. I rather focus on running the boat. Boating no etoh no pot. No hassles.
Statistics are pretty clear substance impairment results in boating deaths. Much easier to be black or white on this. Agree with Peter.
Would further note during the stimulation phase there’s convincing evidence judgement is impaired. Also evidence as little as 1-2 drinks impairs cognition.
https://www.thieme-connect.de/products/ejournals/abstract/10.1055/s-0043-118664
(Need to purchase article. I’m on my boat so don’t have access to my journal files).
Urine or blood are poor ways to test for a lipid soluble substance such as THC. Unlike water soluble alcohol poor correlation between levels and brain load. Breathalyzers pretty much useless . This has been a major difficulty for law enforcement. From what PS says they and the military does the best they can. Of interest ETOH is both lipid and water soluble so crosses the blood brain barrier easily.
I run a dry boat. I have crew sign a piece of paper delineating my obligations to them and their obligations to me. Included is no intoxicants. In spite of that one crew smuggled nips aboard and was also hitting on my stores in the closed liquor locker. I caught him one night. He was taken off the watch rotation. I allowed him a a measured amount of booze to prevent DTs or withdrawal seizures after seeing him demonstrate early withdrawal symptoms. Of interest although he was financially very successful and quite well educated he was either in denial or by his statement unaware he was addicted.
Peter is right to the extent possible I don’t want to be anyone’s mother nor fill the need to play constant Sherlock Holmes. They have two beers laced with booze they’re impaired. I’m not interested in keeping count how much beer or wine is drunk. I rather focus on running the boat. Boating no etoh no pot. No hassles.
Statistics are pretty clear substance impairment results in boating deaths. Much easier to be black or white on this. Agree with Peter.
Would further note during the stimulation phase there’s convincing evidence judgement is impaired. Also evidence as little as 1-2 drinks impairs cognition.
https://www.thieme-connect.de/products/ejournals/abstract/10.1055/s-0043-118664
(Need to purchase article. I’m on my boat so don’t have access to my journal files).
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rslifkin
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I'm seeing a noticeable difference in attitudes toward family vs crew. And I can agree with that. Having a drink with dinner, etc. is a much bigger concern with crew on board where you may not know them all that well and don't know what problems they may be hiding. But for a mom and pop boat where the couple is the only crew, it's a bit different (as you've removed the new people part of the equation).
psneeld
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Agree....
I never knew so many "recreational" boaters have "crew" aboard for every trip as opposed to "guests/family/sig other" and feel the need to "run" the taught ship.
OldDan1943
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You can fire the crew members but, you cant fire the family.
CharlieO.
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We caught our Russian Dr. shooting himself up with something. He claimed it was fertility drugs. We decided to take our chances without a Dr. on board and sent him home from Dutch Harbor.
backinblue
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Good chioce. Who wants and overly-fertile Dr on board anyway.
psneeld
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I once MEDEVACed a Russian doc off a Russian freighter with a double compound fracture of the arm.... up in that neck of the woods...took him to Navy Adak as that's all the fuel we had left.
He "fell" down a ladder. At least he didn't seem drunk when we took him onboard the helo.
The captain of the freighter thanked and praised us...maybe it was more for taking him away than MEDEVACing him.
OldDan1943
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How many times did he fall down the ladder?
Hippocampus
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PS on passage all most all the cruisers take on crew. Mom and pop are not considered a sufficient number according to virtually all insurance companies now a days. You have no choice but to take on crew. Also have friends/family even when not much needed having them aboard is fun.
At present we are coastal/near shore so unless making long transits near shore run as mom and pop. Also if continuous run is less than 36-48h. However if more than that like another person on board so i get sleep. When younger and insurance was less restrictive had no issue doing a one/two race or go off single. But for longer than a decade now it means no insurance or a huge rider if you can even find one.
Finding good reliable crew who are available is a constant chore. But have been blessed by some excellent crew who have taught me stuff and made for great friends. Have been fortunate and able to avoid delivery captains. My few occasions of using one have been spotty. Have yet to pay for crew. This is very common behavior.
I think there’s a different mentality between more casual boaters and cruisers about this and many subjects. Some of the most diligent cruisers I know are exclusively coastal. Cruising is a major portion of their lives and estates. So they have a low tolerance for risks that can be avoided such as use of intoxicants while underway or even at anchor except in the most benign settings.
At present we are coastal/near shore so unless making long transits near shore run as mom and pop. Also if continuous run is less than 36-48h. However if more than that like another person on board so i get sleep. When younger and insurance was less restrictive had no issue doing a one/two race or go off single. But for longer than a decade now it means no insurance or a huge rider if you can even find one.
Finding good reliable crew who are available is a constant chore. But have been blessed by some excellent crew who have taught me stuff and made for great friends. Have been fortunate and able to avoid delivery captains. My few occasions of using one have been spotty. Have yet to pay for crew. This is very common behavior.
I think there’s a different mentality between more casual boaters and cruisers about this and many subjects. Some of the most diligent cruisers I know are exclusively coastal. Cruising is a major portion of their lives and estates. So they have a low tolerance for risks that can be avoided such as use of intoxicants while underway or even at anchor except in the most benign settings.
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psneeld
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I love when people harp on issues here that affect probably less than 2% of boaters...even maybe 10% of cruisers.
Most of the most active boaters and most liveaboards I know really don't have what we all call "estates".
Controlling "intoxicants" can but doesn't necessarily mean "zero tolerance".
I get that a lot of people have to live in a all or nothing world, glad I don't.
Most of the most active boaters and most liveaboards I know really don't have what we all call "estates".
Controlling "intoxicants" can but doesn't necessarily mean "zero tolerance".
I get that a lot of people have to live in a all or nothing world, glad I don't.
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Hippocampus
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Well when you don’t have a house your boat is your major tangible asset for most cruisers I know. For most with a house it’s still one if not their second largest asset. So it’s a major part of their estate. Guess we know different people and live in a different world. Don’t know that many 1%ers where cruising boat is an insignificant asset.
We don’t live in a zero tolerance all or none world and I don’t know why you would think that. Believe that’s your attitude not mine. . Definitely enjoy my single malt and my wife her Prosecco. The boat is kept well stocked. However when I was working didn’t imbibe on work days nor the evening before an on call day. Also don’t drink on the boat unless in a a safe setting. I can’t expect others to do the same if I behave differently. As said before I have no interest in monitoring adults.
Some how the boat needs attention at the most inopportune times. I don’t want me or anyone helping me hungover or intoxicated. Now dealing with a broken bow thruster. It died as I was making a turn into a fuel dock. Strong current here and there was some wind. Had to think fast and have a gentle touch. Boat is a single screw and the stern thruster did just about nothing. Quite glad I didn’t have a few beers in me to celebrate starting our migration north.
I appreciate your point of view. I don’t appreciate your making incorrect assumptions and catching an attitude toward people you don’t know and don’t know how they live their lives. It’s offensive and not necessary. What you’ve said about me is not my view nor that of many people I know. I spoke to the subject at hand and shared my view which is shared by many in my experience. Your mileage appears different. So be it.
We don’t live in a zero tolerance all or none world and I don’t know why you would think that. Believe that’s your attitude not mine. . Definitely enjoy my single malt and my wife her Prosecco. The boat is kept well stocked. However when I was working didn’t imbibe on work days nor the evening before an on call day. Also don’t drink on the boat unless in a a safe setting. I can’t expect others to do the same if I behave differently. As said before I have no interest in monitoring adults.
Some how the boat needs attention at the most inopportune times. I don’t want me or anyone helping me hungover or intoxicated. Now dealing with a broken bow thruster. It died as I was making a turn into a fuel dock. Strong current here and there was some wind. Had to think fast and have a gentle touch. Boat is a single screw and the stern thruster did just about nothing. Quite glad I didn’t have a few beers in me to celebrate starting our migration north.
I appreciate your point of view. I don’t appreciate your making incorrect assumptions and catching an attitude toward people you don’t know and don’t know how they live their lives. It’s offensive and not necessary. What you’ve said about me is not my view nor that of many people I know. I spoke to the subject at hand and shared my view which is shared by many in my experience. Your mileage appears different. So be it.
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psneeld
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Guess it's statements like this upon which I draw my conclusions "Some how the boat needs attention at the most inopportune times. I don’t want me or anyone helping me hungover or intoxicated." and words like "estates".
One thing I agree with, is we live in different worlds.
One thing I agree with, is we live in different worlds.
Hippocampus
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Yes I i continue to try to learn from people who has lived or are living in those different worlds. It a good attitude.
Don’t have enough digits to count the number of times after landfall crew and I had to think twice where the boat was in a marina after a good meal and drinks. Tired, full belly and a few drinks in us. Nor following in the dinghy after a cruiser get together or party to make sure everyone got back on their boats safely. Nothing wrong with getting a buzz on occasion. But not underway.
In the last two years several friends swallowed the anchor and yes their boat was their major asset. So as regards estate.
“ noun One's property, both real and personal, vested and contingent, especially as disposed of in a will.”
It pertains to any size or value so it’s part of their estate even while they are alive. Again I respectfully suggest you’ve caught an attitude.
Yes you maintain, check and double check but in my world gremlins live. I see them very rarely but somehow commonly at inopportune times. Radar fails. Or a MFD. Or recently the bow thruster after checking its function before throwing off the lines and having it work perfectly getting out of the slip. Think that’s true for others as well. Yesterday was admiring a boat in my current marina. Gentleman uses it for charter. Seems very attentive to his boat. He told me he nearby sunk it a month ago. His main live well failed and flooded the bilge. He was on plane going to the canyons. He slowed to deal with it and took a boarding wave. He has three outboards on it so was stern down. Would think that’s an inopportune time.
Don’t have enough digits to count the number of times after landfall crew and I had to think twice where the boat was in a marina after a good meal and drinks. Tired, full belly and a few drinks in us. Nor following in the dinghy after a cruiser get together or party to make sure everyone got back on their boats safely. Nothing wrong with getting a buzz on occasion. But not underway.
In the last two years several friends swallowed the anchor and yes their boat was their major asset. So as regards estate.
“ noun One's property, both real and personal, vested and contingent, especially as disposed of in a will.”
It pertains to any size or value so it’s part of their estate even while they are alive. Again I respectfully suggest you’ve caught an attitude.
Yes you maintain, check and double check but in my world gremlins live. I see them very rarely but somehow commonly at inopportune times. Radar fails. Or a MFD. Or recently the bow thruster after checking its function before throwing off the lines and having it work perfectly getting out of the slip. Think that’s true for others as well. Yesterday was admiring a boat in my current marina. Gentleman uses it for charter. Seems very attentive to his boat. He told me he nearby sunk it a month ago. His main live well failed and flooded the bilge. He was on plane going to the canyons. He slowed to deal with it and took a boarding wave. He has three outboards on it so was stern down. Would think that’s an inopportune time.
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OP
OP
Alaskan Sea-Duction
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Good conversation. Bottom line: Once you remove the lines from the dock, marijuana is illegal. Violators can face prison and confiscation of their vessel.
All other arguments are irrelevant until federal law is changed.
All other arguments are irrelevant until federal law is changed.
Hippocampus
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Here’s a reiteration of what I’ve been saying on this thread from Apple News. For you guys that think a few beers o a dobie while on the boat is no big deal you might want to rethink you position.
Cannabis-infused foods
With the rise of CBD and the legalization of marijuana in most states, this one might come as a bit of a surprise. But just because cannabis is legal and can help you relax doesn’t mean it’s doing great things for your brain.*
“Besides the short-term cognitive impairing effects of cannabis, tetrahydrocannabinol (also known as THC, or what produces the ‘high’) appears to constrict arteries in the brain,” said*Dr. Lester Leung, a neurologist and the director of the Comprehensive Stroke Center at Tufts Medical Center. “This can be very dangerous when used in large amounts by people with migraines, a very common headache condition that, together with heavy cannabis use, can lead to stroke, even in young, otherwise healthy people.”
Beer
This summer, you may want to skip the beer at your neighborhood barbecue. “Beer is comprised completely of empty calories with no nutritional value,” said*Dr. Byran Ho, a neurologist and director of the Movement Disorders Program at Tufts Medical Center. “Alcohol is a neurotoxin that can injure both the central and peripheral nervous system, even if consumed in moderate amounts.”
Cannabis-infused foods
With the rise of CBD and the legalization of marijuana in most states, this one might come as a bit of a surprise. But just because cannabis is legal and can help you relax doesn’t mean it’s doing great things for your brain.*
“Besides the short-term cognitive impairing effects of cannabis, tetrahydrocannabinol (also known as THC, or what produces the ‘high’) appears to constrict arteries in the brain,” said*Dr. Lester Leung, a neurologist and the director of the Comprehensive Stroke Center at Tufts Medical Center. “This can be very dangerous when used in large amounts by people with migraines, a very common headache condition that, together with heavy cannabis use, can lead to stroke, even in young, otherwise healthy people.”
Beer
This summer, you may want to skip the beer at your neighborhood barbecue. “Beer is comprised completely of empty calories with no nutritional value,” said*Dr. Byran Ho, a neurologist and director of the Movement Disorders Program at Tufts Medical Center. “Alcohol is a neurotoxin that can injure both the central and peripheral nervous system, even if consumed in moderate amounts.”
backinblue
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That brings up an interesting techincal point. If you are in your boat and tied to a dock, are you governed by that state's law or federal law? (i.e. can you smoke pot on your boat if it's legal there)
Benthic2
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I think you are always subject to federal law, so any federal law enforcement agent ( FBI, CBP, USCG, TSA,ATF etc ) could charge you even if you were at home in your living room, (assuming the fed had a legitimate reason to be in your living room )
backinblue
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Good point and technically you are correct although in practice it probably would be unlikely.
Benthic2
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A little thread drift here....but we are 170 posts in and the horse is dead so....
I just came accross a video on Facebook that shows an Ontrario Provicial Police officer sitting on a pontoon boat stating that drinking alcohol is only allowed on a boat with permanent cooking, sleeping and restroom facilities, AND must be attached to the bottom via anchor, mooring or dock. (If you have facebook I put the link below.)
I thought this was interesting as around here anyone can drink on any boat as long as the driver is sober. The owner may have to be sober too but I'm not sure about that.
Party boats like these are fun, but alcohol on board is never permitted. #BeABetterBoater #SgtDaveMoffatt | By Ontario Provincial Police - Highway Safety DivisionFacebook
I found a different video on Youtube that says the same thing:
I just came accross a video on Facebook that shows an Ontrario Provicial Police officer sitting on a pontoon boat stating that drinking alcohol is only allowed on a boat with permanent cooking, sleeping and restroom facilities, AND must be attached to the bottom via anchor, mooring or dock. (If you have facebook I put the link below.)
I thought this was interesting as around here anyone can drink on any boat as long as the driver is sober. The owner may have to be sober too but I'm not sure about that.
Party boats like these are fun, but alcohol on board is never permitted. #BeABetterBoater #SgtDaveMoffatt | By Ontario Provincial Police - Highway Safety DivisionFacebook
I found a different video on Youtube that says the same thing:
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rslifkin
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I'm not sure about the rest of Canada, but Ontario specifically is very strict about alcohol on boats compared to the US. For something like a pontoon boat, it's illegal to ever have any kind of alcohol aboard in Ontario, even at the dock.
SteveK
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The rules are the same in BC as Ontario video
Benthic2
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I am all for safe boating and all, but no alcohol on any moving boat seems harsh. Does that mean there are no sunset/dinner cruises on commercial boats or are they exempt ?
SteveK
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yes they are licensed to serve
RT Firefly
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Greetings,
Mr. B. Your post #172. One item I think was missed in the anchored, tied to dock requirement...Also applies if you're hard aground. Go figure.
Edit: Rules may seem harsh to you but what about all the "party" people who over indulge, boat and are never caught, captain/owner included?
Mr. B. Your post #172. One item I think was missed in the anchored, tied to dock requirement...Also applies if you're hard aground. Go figure.
Edit: Rules may seem harsh to you but what about all the "party" people who over indulge, boat and are never caught, captain/owner included?
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RT Firefly
Enigma
Greetings,
I'm pretty sure one can transport alcohol on ANY sized boat but it cannot be opened. Meaning no partial bottles of booze OR cases of beer. Yes the cardboard beer case has to still be factory sealed. NO open cases with a few missing even though all the bottles are capped.
Boats with toilet and galley CAN transport partial bottles and cases, I quite sure.
I'm pretty sure one can transport alcohol on ANY sized boat but it cannot be opened. Meaning no partial bottles of booze OR cases of beer. Yes the cardboard beer case has to still be factory sealed. NO open cases with a few missing even though all the bottles are capped.
Boats with toilet and galley CAN transport partial bottles and cases, I quite sure.
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