Boats to avoid?

[healhustler]

Hello,

I am new to the trawler family. I am looking for places to buy equipment

 for my 44' Thompson Trawler.  I see lots of ships with bimmany tops and in need of one.  Any suggestions?

Thank you,
Dr Q

[ATTACH]92434[/ATTACH][/QUOTE]

Doc:  Several places to check out (after you measure) are Don’s Marine Salvage near Largo, Marine Surplus near Sarasota/Bradenton Airport, and it’s well worth the trip over to the huge Marine Liquidators in Ft. Pierce, who probably have the used size you need in several colors (no kidding). Make a list of everything you want before going.

 

[rmatics]

Find out mpg vs speed data.Fuel tank location on older boats is important if new tanks are needed.
Ez access and simple layout of hoses and electrical are plus.
If using wet batteries difficult service access can be problematic.


Have fun!

 

[psneeld]

There are a few internet places that sell pre-made tops...they are simple but adequate unless you are looking for more of an enclosure.


Taylor Made Products 2019 Catalog

 

[Art]

Another word of caution:

Surveyors can miss important items too... even good ones. Check around, question knowledgeable references regarding a surveyor you eventually chose.

Also, a word of potential savings: Request a less expensive pre survey. Some good surveyors will visit the boat "with you there for immediate payment if needed" and give a fairly speedy [30 minutes +/-] opinion if they feel a full, expensive survey is even warranted on that boat. The pre survey can cost more per time utilized... but way less than a full survey that would come to the same conclusion... of the boat not being worth purchasing.

Whether it is a pre survey or full survey, I recommend you are there to observe and ask questions. IMO - ask before the survey agreement comensenses, and, if the surveyor does not want you at the survey - find one that is OK with you being there. It's your hundreds of dollars!

 

[Wayfarer]

Another word of caution:

Surveyors can miss important items too... even good ones. Check around, question knowledgeable references regarding a surveyor you eventually chose.

Whether it is a pre survey or full survey, I recommend you are there to observe and ask questions. IMO - ask before the survey agreement comensenses, and, if the surveyor does not want you at the survey - find one that is OK with you being there. It's your hundreds of dollars!

This^^^
Many surveyors will not move anything around during a survey. If a locker is full of clothes or other junk, they will likely not move that stuff to see what's going on behind it. When surveying my first boat, there was a big bag of life jackets in the aft cabin, which blocked the view of an obvious leak. I didn't see that until after it was already my problem. Dig around. Open everything. Be as nosy as you can be.

 

[Comodave]

When we bought our current boat, I spent the entire day before the sea trial and survey just poking around on the boat. By the time the survey came around, I had found all but one thing he called out on the survey. He asked me how I knew about the items and I said that I had looked around. He was surprised. I was present last week for a survey on a friends boat to represent him during the survey. As the surveyor got into the engine room he gave a yell to his wife who was recording his comments that the halon system was current on its inspection. He said that was the first time he had found one current in over 10 years. I said yes we both have them inspected each year.

 

[flymike]

Volvo owner here - TAMD40Bs with 6,000 hours each. No major problems. Ever. I have every receipt from the past 34 years and nothing seems excessive, although the glow plugs were $75 each. Parts are readily available from Marine Parts Express in Maine.

 

[TBW]

You absolutely have to buy from someone who will help you. And make good gear. Furuno. John Deere. Vetus Maxwell.

 

[Tingum]

Life is too short to own an ugly boat!

 

[Nomad Willy]

When you’re the buyer you’re in the drivers seat.

The day after you’re stuck. It will probably be many years till you again have options again. So look at lots and lots of boats. And utilize you options .. like the mini-survey mentioned above.

 

[Boilermaker75]

RA,

I laughed all the way through the responses to your question, because I recognized myself, both in your question and in all the responses.

I spent more than two years searching for and researching various trawlers before finally finding one that met most of my boating objectives/needs and that I could afford. Affordability and satisfaction of boating objectives/needs are always in tension with each other and a challenge to balance.

After having been a rag sailor most of my life, I decided that I wanted a trawler to do the America's Great Loop in -- more usable "living" space per foot of boat length, and no need to take down/put up the mast to get under bridges. I wanted a boat not just for weekending or even a week-long outing but one that could potentially be a comfortable, extended live-aboard. I was used to sailing @ 4 - 6 knots, and didn't have any need/desire to pay for a "fast" planning hull boat. After looking at both twin-engine and single-engine boats, I ended up narrowing my search to only single-engine boats, mostly for cost-of-ownership reasons. I wanted a flybridge with two helms, with side deck access doors on both sides of the main salon; I settled for a side deck access door on the starboard side only. I would not (and did not) settle or compromise on the requirement(s) that there be a guest cabin or that the master stateroom cabin have a queen-sized berth (my wife and I don't fit together in a "double" and I didn't want to tell our daughter or other guests that she/they had to sleep on the dinette table berth in the main salon). I wanted reasonably up-to-date electronics but was prepared and willing to upgrade existing electronics if necessary and the purchase price was right. I was happy to find a boat with a generator and an inverter (even a hot water heater), as well as a working GPS chartplotter and even a radar (but no AIS), so I didn't have to spend extra to add those after the purchase. And, as some have suggested, I would not consider any of the many "project" boats I came across, because I wanted to spend my time boating, not refitting; the boat had to successful pass a marine survey.

These (and many more) are the types of questions you will need to formulate, ask, and answer for yourself (and your family, if applicable) before you will be able to discern between boats within your overall (purchase and refitting) budget that do or do not meet your boating objectives/needs. Not all your boating objectives/needs will necessarily be met by any boat within your budget. You will have to prioritize "must-haves" versus "want-to-haves" versus "nice-to-haves" and be willing to compromise. For instance, I wanted a boat with a tender/dinghy and outboard motor, but ended up buying one without a tender/dinghy or outboard that met most of my other needs -- and have subsequently purchased a used RIB w/ outboard. Be patient, and be prepared to be surprised, delighted, and disappointed along the way, both before and after your boat purchase. For instance, at least two boats I really wanted to buy went under contract just before I could submit my offer; a few other boats that initially looked very promising turned out to be "project" boats.

Good luck with your search, research, discernment, and purchase.


P.S. I ended up buying a 1984 Marine Trader 40' Sundeck Trawler with a single Ford Lehman 120 HP diesel engine (and stern thruster).

 

[Comodave]

Life is too short to own an ugly boat!

I’ll second that.

 

[Night Watch]

Why Volvo engines are expensive...

why Volvo’s are expensive...

 

[flymike]

Why Volvos are expensive

It's really really good paint!

 

[moparharn]

" Be prepared for some disappointments"

Yeah buddy! I would say 6 out of 10 are "how do I get out of here" boats. Reactions such as "wow, those sure were good pictures!" or " Do you wipe down the inside with diesel?". Now that I know what I want, and what to look out for, it is a much quicker process to evaluate a boat. I head straight to the engine room before I look at a thing. I want it spacious, organized, and clean, then I check the stringers for moisture. If this passes I am ready to start accepting compromises. If it does not I am direct and honest with the broker/owner and get the heck out of there. If the engine room passes I will look for serious moisture issues, tank leaks, and evidence of major short cuts. If that passes I start trying to talk myself into the boat. The next step is ease of access-access to the water, access to wash the boat, access to dock the boat, access to the bridge. I do not worry about furniture, electronics, or general aesthetics. I do not even look at the boat unless it first passes the must haves which are mostly based on operating/ownership costs, design, and perceived quality, and purchase price. See- its easy.

 

[Night Watch]

why Volvo engines are so expensive

 

[Comodave]

View attachment 92501

And you notice it is out of stock...

 

[Boat]

I'll have a batch mixed up and sell them two for one. Free box of Swedish cookies if you order right now. Call 1-800-BSBS

 

[ben2go]

I'll have a batch mixed up and sell them two for one. Free box of Swedish cookies if you order right now. Call 1-800-BSBS

Missing three numbers I'm guessing 1-800-555-BSBS. I'll be ordering a case of 24.:lol:

 

[Brusky1000]

Avoid any boat that does not meet you needs:

• if you want a fast boat, do not buy a slow boat
• if you want a slow boat, do not buy a fast boat
• if you want diesels, do not buy gassers
• if you want gassers, do not buy diesels
• if you want a trawler, do not buy an express cruiser
• if you want an express cruiser, do not buy a trawler
• if you want an old boat, do not buy a new boat
• if you want a new boat, do not buy an old boat
• if you want a smaller boat, do not buy a larger boat
• if you want a larger boat, do not buy a smaller boat
• if you love wooden boats, do not buy a fiberglass boat
• if you love fiberglass boats, do not buy a wooden boat

Seriously though, if you haven't, read the Boat search 101 thread!

You can't seriously begin looking for a boat until you give enough though on what your boating needs are!

Feel free to ask questions about all types of topics, but not which anchor is best!

Welcome aboard!

Jim

Now that is a GOOD summary.

 

[bayview]

I'll add:

if you want low maintenance costs and great fuel economy don't buy a boat

 

[Seevee]

Research local boatyard's. Go to the one that sounds the best and ask them what boats don't seem to hold up well or are not well made.

All of the yards I have been in know that Mainships are very lightly built to put it nicely.

Andiamo,


I'm sure you'll get some Mainship arguments, starting with mine. It's clear than you don't know Mainships.


The Mainship was marketed as a mass produced, economical trawler marketed to the masses. The design and engineering of the boat was excellent. The execution (manufacturer) was fair, and even poor in some cases and a lot of owners made improvements and modifications to make it better. The 2000 and later models have a LOT of advantages over the competion, including a lower price which you get from mass production.



Kinda like buying a Camry instead of a Lexus.



Some of the features that make the Mainship a great boat:
Stairs, no ladders
Walk around the whole boat, easy access
Spacious flybridge

Flybridge overhang for walkway, to stay dry and out of the sun

Nice sized cockpit, with aft flybridge covering

Upper and lower helm
Starboard helm door for easy docking single handed
No teak (or any exterior wood)

Nita Core hull
Bathtub
Washer/dryer
Dual AC
And a host of other features.


And, a very popular boat.... for a reason.


====
There's other boats that have been bashed. The Bayliner 4790 is a great boat, very reasonable with nice features, and don't know why it was discontinued. It's not like the old small Bayliners that probably deserved their reputation.


====


The Volvo engines.... probably deserve their reputation and surprised that so many OEM use them. After three of them, I'm a believer. Parts and service are brutal. If they don't break, probably not a bad engine.



Lots of choices

 

[FF]

"The Volvo engines.... probably deserve their reputation and surprised that so many OEM use them."


Most OEM will select Volvo as Volvo prices for OEM are deeply discounted.

 

[ranger58sb]

All of the yards I have been in know that Mainships are very lightly built to put it nicely.

IIRC, our '87 Mainship 34 Mk III hull was a couple inches thick, solid 'glass. No sign of "lightly built" that I ever noticed.

It wasn't a Fleming, Hatteras, Viking, Sabre, Nordhavn... but then it didn't cost like a Fleming, Hatteras, Viking, Sabre, Nordhavn... and we didn't need a Nordhavn anyway, being most often inland or coastal.

"Systems" -- engines, pumps, chargers, toilets, ACs, strainers, hoses, etc. -- were pretty much the same systems most other production builders in the same category used.

Believe they got better with deckhouse coring material over the years, as newer products began to displace balsa... along with most other production builders in the same category.

-Chris

 

[mncruiser]

I’ve heard a lot about Volvo’s over the years, the same stories about parts availability and cost.

I’m good friends with our marina mechanics. One rainy morning we were sitting around talking parts. I needed two water pumps for my Mercruiser’s and they said I got the last two in the area with a back order status for most all bronze and even the newer plastic stock belt mounted pumps. I guess many of these common parts have been issues for several years.

I asked about Volvo’s, and while In our area we don’t have a lot of them, the guys said they had generally good experiences with them. Then they started looking up common similar parts for Volvo vs Mercruiser stuff, and all Volvo stuff was in stock, and in some cases cheaper than Mercruiser stuff. They were looking at mainly I/O stuff.

I asked to look at Volvo D4 stuff, and they aren’t dedicated diesel mechanics but do work on them.

They pulled up common maintenance items and pumps and pulleys, everything was in stock and would be available in a few days. They also praised the Volvo parts exchange program and the part kits they sell that make major jobs easy. They had lots of comments about other manufacturers not having any clue about parts for their own engines, and how it was often a guessing game.

There was nothing scientific about it at all, but it was very interesting that their experiences are exactly opposite of many who violently assert that a Volvo purchase is a sure way to have a engine that when it breaks will be impossible to get parts for, and is basically some sort of throw away.

I simply don’t believe it’s that bad. I’m sure there are corner cases with shortages and delays, etc, but I don’t see it’s as bad as some say.

 

[ranger58sb]

Not wanting to bash anybody's personal vessel, but I know of cars and motorcycles I hear people tell other people they may want to avoid. Are there any Trawlers out there that are just plain not a good idea to buy? If not boats, how about certain engines? I am just hoping to avoid expensive mistakes! thanks for any input you may have.

And from the other thread:

I have fond memories of my time in Maryland and on the Chesapeake Bay. I had a Sea Ray Weekender 26 I kept in Pasadena while I was there.

As many have said, yes, some brands come with their own foibles that you might want to take into account... but boats to avoid are mostly those that don't fit your needs (if you want fast, don't buy slow, etc.) and those that haven't been appropriately cared for.

Since you mention a 26' SeaRay, I'll suggest there's another category... where short-falls aren't about quality per se, but rather ability to maintain the thing. IMO, SeaRay gets a bad rap for installation issues, especially for things so close together that you can't get to Thing A for maintenance because Things B, C, D. and E are in the way.

Yep, they do that... at least on their smaller boats... but then again, their customer base often wants a bazillion features -- AC, water heater, genset, twin engines, two fridges, icemaker, 18 staterooms, etc. -- all in a boat about 30' long and costing only a dollar and a half. Something's gotta give, and often access for maintenance is one of the first things they jettison.

I guess my point is to marshal your expectations when it comes to size versus features. And often, given a choice between a 30' boat with X features and a 40' boat with X features... access to individual systems for maintenance may well much better on the latter. Probably without regard to brand name...

-Chris

 

[Art]

Again I mention: Look into Tollycraft if available in your area.

If the Tolly's been kept in good condition... heck of a good and affordable upper mid range quality boat! Tough as nails, well laid out [roomy], easy to care for, sea worthy.