Contacts, springs and a heating coil. Are you figuring on designing and building your own circuit breakers?
The wheel was invented long ago and its unlikely that you can make a significant improvement with the resources available to you.
Marine circuit breakers, panels, etc. are readily available in many configurations. Compared to trying to build something yourself, they are inexpensive and they already carry approval from the necessary testing agencies. There is no real advantage to using anything different or "custom".
A future potential buyer will be much more comfortable with a "normal", brand name marine electrical system.
Looks good. Those screw clamp terminals will make wiring a breeze. Easier than dealing with crimp ring eyes and loose screws.
Seen something similar on some Euro boats. Not sure if you can get something similar for DC, but I think you can.
I would want no aluminum in any part of the circuitry. I think that is what the code states??
Aluminum and copper have different rates of expansion, so the connections will eventually loosen. Aluminum wiring only existed for a short period in the late seventies, when there was a copper shortage. And yes, it is illegal.
I guess you are talking about small gauge wiring because using aluminum wire in residential and commercial applications is still the norm on larger size wires (above AWG10). Almost all wire ran by utility companies is aluminum.
Speaking about non corrosive past, as I started this thread I am allowed to hijack it, what about dielectric grease? For me it is a very good way to prevent contact corrosion. What, you fellow TFErs, areb thinking about it? Are you using it ot not? If not why?
Any comment will be a stone added to the knowledge building!
Greetings,
Mr. R2G. From my poor memory, the problem with Al wire when it first came out is as Mr. t noted. Expansion coefficients. Al wire in a fixture designed for Cu wire posed a fire hazard. As the industry progressed, special fixtures that were compatible with Al became available and special installation instructions had to be followed. Corrosion was also a big factor with Al. I remember helping a friend, many years ago doing some wiring and we had to apply a non-corrosive paste to all connections.
Depending on application and geographical location I think it is still allowed but as noted, it is banned in other locales.
Modern aircraft use "arc fault breakers",
might be worth the effort to see if they can be had at the big box store.
Hi TFers,
reading some threads one question came to my mind.
Why can we not use AC or DC breaker made for house aboard a boat?
I know that boat ones are ignition protected....
L.
This is an old thread but misconceptions found throughout are potentially dangerous and need to be addressed.
The real answer to 'why not residential type breakers' has little or nothing to do with ignition protection. (although...if your shore-power breakers for SOME reason are installed in an engine compartment and the potential for explosive fumes exists, then you MUST use UL-1500 ignition protected marine breakers).
The real problem is more dangerous.
Residential breakers trip when an internal bi-metal strip reaches a certain temperature, the temperature rise being caused by current flowing through the bi-metal strip. It takes a bit of time for the metal to heat up (based on the mass of the bi-metal), so there is an 'engineered delay' such that these breakers don't trip instantaneously and so can handle the surge/start current required by (for example) an A/C or refrigerator compressor.
The problem is that these 'thermal' residential breakers are highly sensitive to ambient temperature. On a very hot day, a typical 15 amp breaker will trip at only 10 amps, but the same breaker will not trip until 25 amps on a very cold day. Making things worse, the majority of boats built with vastly cheaper residential breaker panels were also wired with vastly cheaper 'romex' (type-NM solid copper) residential wiring which presents a compounding problem; the insulation on that wire melts at a relatively low temperature; type NM romex has insulation that is only safe up to 60 degrees C, while UL-1426 "Boat Cable" insulation is rated for 105 C. Here in Minnesota (where I work on a lot of houseboats, mostly owned by year-round livaboards) there have been several 'winter fires' caused by the combination of residential thermal breakers and "romex'.
The scenario I've seen over and over again is this; in the summer, a houseboat owner arriving on board finds the temperature inside the boat is close to 100 degrees! The air-conditioning runs balls-to-the-wall for an hour or so, then trips the breaker (because the 15A breakers are tripping at 10 amps). The owner gets sick of his '15 amp' breakers tripping while trying to cool down the inside of the boat, so he/she replaces all the 15A residential breakers with 20A residential breakers. Then, in the wintertime (with electric space heaters, electric blankets, bilge heaters, bubblers, etc) those 20A breakers don't trip until close to 30A (!!!) -- and 30A is more than enough to drive the 14/2 Romex well beyond the safe temperature for it's insulation. The result is typically the very scary smell of burning electrical insulation and (more and more) a resulting fire.
So THAT is why residential thermal breakers should never be used on boats. The breakers used on 'real' boats are of the magnetic-hydraulic design, where the breaker trips based on the electro-magnetic field created by current running through a wire coil in the breaker -- and electromagnetism is totally independent of temperature. In these breakers, the delay required to handle surge/start currents is created by hydraulics (a bit like a shock absorber).
It's easy to understand the confusion and the misconception that ignition-protection is the only or main reason to use 'boat breakers' instead of residential breakers -- but this is a dangerous misconception.
As an aside, the vast majority of hydraulic-magnetic breakers I find in boat shore-power panels are not ignition-protected (and don't need to be) because these electrical panels are never installed in gasoline engine compartments.
So, you probably DON'T need ignition protected breakers in your shore-power panels, but that doesn't mean it's OK to use residential (thermal) breakers.
This is an old thread but misconceptions found throughout are potentially dangerous and need to be addressed.
The real answer to 'why not residential type breakers' has little or nothing to do with ignition protection. (although...if your shore-power breakers for SOME reason are installed in an engine compartment and the potential for explosive fumes exists, then you MUST use UL-1500 ignition protected marine breakers).
The real problem is more dangerous.
Residential breakers trip when an internal bi-metal strip reaches a certain temperature, the temperature rise being caused by current flowing through the bi-metal strip. It takes a bit of time for the metal to heat up (based on the mass of the bi-metal), so there is an 'engineered delay' such that these breakers don't trip instantaneously and so can handle the surge/start current required by (for example) an A/C or refrigerator compressor.
The problem is that these 'thermal' residential breakers are highly sensitive to ambient temperature. On a very hot day, a typical 15 amp breaker will trip at only 10 amps, but the same breaker will not trip until 25 amps on a very cold day. Making things worse, the majority of boats built with vastly cheaper residential breaker panels were also wired with vastly cheaper 'romex' (type-NM solid copper) residential wiring which presents a compounding problem; the insulation on that wire melts at a relatively low temperature; type NM romex has insulation that is only safe up to 60 degrees C, while UL-1426 "Boat Cable" insulation is rated for 105 C. Here in Minnesota (where I work on a lot of houseboats, mostly owned by year-round livaboards) there have been several 'winter fires' caused by the combination of residential thermal breakers and "romex'.
The scenario I've seen over and over again is this; in the summer, a houseboat owner arriving on board finds the temperature inside the boat is close to 100 degrees! The air-conditioning runs balls-to-the-wall for an hour or so, then trips the breaker (because the 15A breakers are tripping at 10 amps). The owner gets sick of his '15 amp' breakers tripping while trying to cool down the inside of the boat, so he/she replaces all the 15A residential breakers with 20A residential breakers. Then, in the wintertime (with electric space heaters, electric blankets, bilge heaters, bubblers, etc) those 20A breakers don't trip until close to 30A (!!!) -- and 30A is more than enough to drive the 14/2 Romex well beyond the safe temperature for it's insulation. The result is typically the very scary smell of burning electrical insulation and (more and more) a resulting fire.
So THAT is why residential thermal breakers should never be used on boats. The breakers used on 'real' boats are of the magnetic-hydraulic design, where the breaker trips based on the electro-magnetic field created by current running through a wire coil in the breaker -- and electromagnetism is totally independent of temperature. In these breakers, the delay required to handle surge/start currents is created by hydraulics (a bit like a shock absorber).
It's easy to understand the confusion and the misconception that ignition-protection is the only or main reason to use 'boat breakers' instead of residential breakers -- but this is a dangerous misconception.
As an aside, the vast majority of hydraulic-magnetic breakers I find in boat shore-power panels are not ignition-protected (and don't need to be) because these electrical panels are never installed in gasoline engine compartments.
So, you probably DON'T need ignition protected breakers in your shore-power panels, but that doesn't mean it's OK to use residential (thermal) breakers.
Here's an IEEE article for any engineers reading this...
https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/8669748
This is an old thread but misconceptions found throughout are potentially dangerous and need to be addressed.
The real answer to 'why not residential type breakers' has little or nothing to do with ignition protection. (although...if your shore-power breakers for SOME reason are installed in an engine compartment and the potential for explosive fumes exists, then you MUST use UL-1500 ignition protected marine breakers).
The real problem is more dangerous.
Residential breakers trip when an internal bi-metal strip reaches a certain temperature, the temperature rise being caused by current flowing through the bi-metal strip. It takes a bit of time for the metal to heat up (based on the mass of the bi-metal), so there is an 'engineered delay' such that these breakers don't trip instantaneously and so can handle the surge/start current required by (for example) an A/C or refrigerator compressor.
The problem is that these 'thermal' residential breakers are highly sensitive to ambient temperature. On a very hot day, a typical 15 amp breaker will trip at only 10 amps, but the same breaker will not trip until 25 amps on a very cold day. Making things worse, the majority of boats built with vastly cheaper residential breaker panels were also wired with vastly cheaper 'romex' (type-NM solid copper) residential wiring which presents a compounding problem; the insulation on that wire melts at a relatively low temperature; type NM romex has insulation that is only safe up to 60 degrees C, while UL-1426 "Boat Cable" insulation is rated for 105 C. Here in Minnesota (where I work on a lot of houseboats, mostly owned by year-round livaboards) there have been several 'winter fires' caused by the combination of residential thermal breakers and "romex'.
The scenario I've seen over and over again is this; in the summer, a houseboat owner arriving on board finds the temperature inside the boat is close to 100 degrees! The air-conditioning runs balls-to-the-wall for an hour or so, then trips the breaker (because the 15A breakers are tripping at 10 amps). The owner gets sick of his '15 amp' breakers tripping while trying to cool down the inside of the boat, so he/she replaces all the 15A residential breakers with 20A residential breakers. Then, in the wintertime (with electric space heaters, electric blankets, bilge heaters, bubblers, etc) those 20A breakers don't trip until close to 30A (!!!) -- and 30A is more than enough to drive the 14/2 Romex well beyond the safe temperature for it's insulation. The result is typically the very scary smell of burning electrical insulation and (more and more) a resulting fire.
So THAT is why residential thermal breakers should never be used on boats. The breakers used on 'real' boats are of the magnetic-hydraulic design, where the breaker trips based on the electro-magnetic field created by current running through a wire coil in the breaker -- and electromagnetism is totally independent of temperature. In these breakers, the delay required to handle surge/start currents is created by hydraulics (a bit like a shock absorber).
It's easy to understand the confusion and the misconception that ignition-protection is the only or main reason to use 'boat breakers' instead of residential breakers -- but this is a dangerous misconception.
As an aside, the vast majority of hydraulic-magnetic breakers I find in boat shore-power panels are not ignition-protected (and don't need to be) because these electrical panels are never installed in gasoline engine compartments.
So, you probably DON'T need ignition protected breakers in your shore-power panels, but that doesn't mean it's OK to use residential (thermal) breakers.