buying a trawler & walked away from the deal

[parrot head]

well we were on the last few weeks of a deal on a Nova38 europa needing a little work I had had a good look but thought better get a survey well two weeks to go & the survey arrived, to my shock it was not good the hull below the water line was good no problems with the glass but some of the fittings needed replacing I knew this, next was the water line upto the the gunwales, not bad needing tidy up few chips etc all ok so far, then came the deck this is where it started the last owner had removed the teak decking filled all the holes & glased over the top thats ok but the wood core in the middle is rotten so I would have to cut the top layer off to replace the wood & then replace the top not good then we found the cabin has sagged due to two bulkheads being rotten on the port side another major the front cabins would have to be striped out to replace the bulkheads & the floor needed to be lifted to repair the lower water tank once done all would need to go back in but you would have to jack the body up & brace it while doing this ,then came the flybridge the floor in this had gone the same way as the deck so would have to be cut open as well all sounded a bit daunting to me so I walked away from the deal its a major rebuild
round two start looking again

 

[twistedtree]

Disappointing, I'm sure. But no doubt you made the right call.

 

[C lectric]

Good thing you got the survey.

 

[menzies]

Did it myself three years ago. Seahorse 52. Spent 2-3 thousand on hull and engine surveys, travel and hotels etc.

Major survey issues, plus lots of mis-information from the broker during sea trial. Gave them an offer that we felt would cover what we knew after the survey, plus more for what we didn't. They refused.

It was hard to do, but we walked. Best decision ever. We paid a lot more for the next boat, but it was well worth it in retrospect.

 

[LaBomba]

Smart move PH, impossible to tell what the final repair bill could be on something like that. A better deal is just waiting to be found

 

[Benthic2]

I just couldn't resist.....

 

[FF]

"but the wood core in the middle is rotten so I would have to cut the top layer off to replace the wood & then replace the top not good"

This is one way to repair a rotten deck, there are others.

But all are a massive job .

 

[bayview]

Good move. There are plenty of boats and some will be in great condition.

 

[parrot head]

I just couldn't resist.....

yes I know

 

[Action]

It is too bad there isn't a repository available for consumers, like car fax for automobiles, that is done for watercraft. Or at least watercraft over a certain dollar amount. Like yachts or ??? That past surveys or major events like insurance claims or wind events could be recorded for vessels.

In the case of menzies potential vessel purchase with the survey stated above I would assume the broker would go to market the same as before that survey. Requiring the next potential buyer to do the same. Wasting time, effort and a few dollars.

 

[Slider70]

I have purchased four larger vessels over the years - 32' to 41.' I had a survey done on three of the four. The surveys showed some things I was not aware of and missed some things I was aware of on one of the last vessels. This surveyor recommended that I not purchase the vessel. But I did using the survey to reduce the purchase price. I've owned the boat for almost two years now and still happy.

The one I bought without survey I purchased in a hurry for tax reasons re: $27K saving. There was no problem with the hull but there was a mechanical problem with not enough air flow through the engine room. No idea if it would have been picked up in a survey? Maybe a mechanical one? I should have picked it up myself if I had just spent more time in the engine room. Bottom line is I would never again buy a vessel without a good survey done including basic mechanical. A good surveyor is worth the money.

 

[tn6437]

It is too bad there isn't a repository available for consumers, like car fax for automobiles, that is done for watercraft. Or at least watercraft over a certain dollar amount. Like yachts or ??? That past surveys or major events like insurance claims or wind events could be recorded for vessels.

In the case of menzies potential vessel purchase with the survey stated above I would assume the broker would go to market the same as before that survey. Requiring the next potential buyer to do the same. Wasting time, effort and a few dollars.

i also went through the same process, thought i found the right boat but survey revealed rot on flybridge deck as well as aft cabin.i walked after seller wouldn't reduce the price enough.
still looking....
why not have a section in the trawler forum where surveys on bad boats could be shared to save others from wasting time and considerable dollars on a boat we probably won't buy.....

 

[skipperguy]

GREAT IDEA ! I presume one has rights to a survey once one pays for it. Would that not make posting such a survey perfectly legal? Could be basis for an app or simply an extension of this forum.

 

[Fighterpilot]

If I order and pay for a survey, I too, think it is mine to do with what ever I choose. I would hope I could offer it to another forum user with out any legal issues.

 

[Exctyengr]

Some of the best deals I ever made were the ones I walked away from. Aircraft, boats, cars, property you name it. Smart move!

 

[BDofMSP]

If I order and pay for a survey, I too, think it is mine to do with what ever I choose. I would hope I could offer it to another forum user with out any legal issues.

The only survey I've ever purchased had specific language prohibiting anything like that.

"The survey purchasers specifically agree not to release nor reveal the survey report, nor any part thereof, to any party who may rely on the content. (Surveyor) agrees to furnish copies, as required, to financial and insurance concerns for the exclusive purposes of lending decisions and insurance underwriting. The survey purchasers agree not to reproduce, photocopy, nor quote the survey report, nor any part thereof."​

The contract and the survey document are locked such that you cannot copy anything from them. Obviously you could take screen prints, but doing anything with them would be in violation of the contract.

Not sure if this is common language. Again, it's the only survey I've bought and I didn't see the need to share the results with anyone.

BD

 

[Action]

I work in the Real Estate industry, specifically lending (read mortgages) and the verbiage is similar in an appraisal report. The buyer paid for the appraisal report because we the lender required the report to make the loan. However the report is the property of the lender that placed the order. Not the buyer (or borrower) that paid for the report. The lender is free to give the report to anyone they want. Which also means they could withhold the report. Which almost never happens in the current state of lending.

I understand a marine surveyor protecting their work. After all it is their livelihood. And from month to month the condition of a vessel could and can change. Making a smart move on the buyer's part to order a survey no matter what the past is like.

But then there is the "used car" marine sales person. Who may be focused on one thing. And how many surveys from years ago has one seen posted on a listing for a vessel. Or how many current surveys have been done where something was missed. Just seems like taking some of the mystery out of buying process would serve the industry. The auto industry has made at least attempts at creating that comfort level for used cars. (Certified used cars, car service/claims history based on VIN tied to a national reporting system, national used car dealerships ....)

I realize marine vessel sales is not to the volume of car and light truck sales, however it seems like a business opportunity. If not available as a private service based on volunteering reports.

 

[Deano]

I walked away from two boats after spending a good bit on surveys, travel, etc. it see it as money well spent. We ended with a good one and feel well ahead moneywise.

 

[Haetwen]

Ownership of a Survey

Several years ago I had a survey performed on a boat that I had under contract. Ultimately I decided not to complete the purchase.

A subsequent buyer requested a copy of the survey. The surveyor told me that I owned the survey and I could do anything I wanted with it.

I sold the survey to the next buyer for half of the amount that I had paid for it.

 

[tn6437]

it may well be that putting the entire survey on the forum would be illegal, however, i can't see where i would be prohibited from posting a link to the ad describing the boat and what i was told by the surveyor as well as my personal opinions of the boat. it is afterall information i learned from my experience with a particular boat that i am sharing.
any lawyers on here ?

 

[Action]

Haetwen
How did the subsequent buyer know to contact you?


tn6437, I am sure some disclosure would have to be posted for that type of thing. Like the information posted is assumed to be accurate and there are no guarantee the information has any basis. Again the Real Estate community does this frequently.

 

[Bigsfish]

Menzies your experience is almost exactly the same as mine. I knew I wanted a GB 54 or 53 (same hull and length), one became available after a few months and we were hot to buy it. Did the survey at Dania both regular and engine, it came back with more than we wanted to deal with so with heavy heart we passed. I knew it would be years until another would become available. As luck would have it my broker had just sold a couple a new 60 GB and they were on their way home (west coast of Florida) after taking their boat to the Baltimore boat show and cruising the area.

Luck was with me, the boat was a 2015 GB 54 Europa, exactly what I was looking for, so once they boat was at their home dock I got my surveyors both boat and engine, broker and we went for a sea trial. Got the survey back and made an offer. I got the boat and have been happy even after spending $40K to get it my way.

BTW. Both surveys were given to the seller to help them correct the faults. So yes surveys are worth the time and money and don’t be afraid to pass on a purchase.

 

[tn6437]

kind of off the subject but is anyone familiar with morel fuel tanks ? i have been told they do not corrode or rust out.

 

[Bigsfish]

tn. Do you mean monel? Plastic and fiberglass don’t either.

All have positives and negatives.

 

[menzies]

I have both the failed survey and the survey of the boat I bought on my web site.

I paid for them, they belong to me. A member on here subsequently bought the Sea Horse and we had a few emails on it and I also sent him a copy of the survey.

I also asked the broker on this site the $64,000 question. All listings on YachtWorld and elsewhere have the fine print that goes something like "The Company offers the details of this vessel in good faith but cannot guarantee or warrant the accuracy of this information nor warrant the condition of the vessel." So I asked him, now that the selling broker of the SeaHorse has a copy of the survey (which we gave to him in support of our reduced offer) and knows the issues does he have to now disclose in his listing and to future buyers. His answer was yes. But would he?

Sonas Surveys | AtAnchor.com

 

[Bigsfish]

I gave mine to my broker so it could be showed to the seller. I left it like that but I would never put it on line for fear of a law suit which would be expensive to defend.

 

[geoleo]

it is too bad there isn't a repository available for consumers, like car fax for automobiles, that is done for watercraft. Or at least watercraft over a certain dollar amount. Like yachts or ??? That past surveys or major events like insurance claims or wind events could be recorded for vessels.

In the case of menzies potential vessel purchase with the survey stated above i would assume the broker would go to market the same as before that survey. Requiring the next potential buyer to do the same. Wasting time, effort and a few dollars.

never trust a broker about anything

 

[Bigal6030]

I have had several boats surveyed. Both surveyors were a waste of money. I know more than they did. I came down hard on the last surveyor and he gave me my money back. Bottom line is we have to do our homework first. Before I pay a surveyor I do a self survey and if I a, still interested I’ll find a surveyor. Trouble is finding a good one. Happy boating

 

[Carl Martin]

I've passed on a couple of deals because of spongy decks. Have been hoping for a while now that someone would try this product. If it works it would sure make the job a whole lot easier. https://injectadeck.com/

 

[jimfrens]

I'm not a lawyer so don't take this as professional advice, but I don't think they could win a lawsuit against you unless they can prove the info you post is 1) inaccurate and 2) knowingly posted as inaccurate. So if you have a survey done and you post the survey online, they might sue you but shouldn't win.

An honest broker, if made aware of issues after a survey, is required to disclose the issues to future potential buyers. Doesn't mean they all will do that.

A good seller will have his own survey done and make it available. Whether you trust it or not is up to you. But if I were selling an expensive boat (say, 50k or more), I'd do that just to help sell the boat.