Buying Markline 1100 - shafts or SD?

[Jeff390]

Hi Folks,
We're considering buying our first launch. Have found the Markline 1100 & decided it's pretty much everything we're looking for.
We've found 2x for sale one on shafts & the other running stern legs, Both powered by 165hp Volvos that are well maintained. The boat on shafts cruises at around 9-12kn & is flat out around 14kn. The boat on stern drives cruises around 18 & maxes out about 22.
I know the maintenance is way higher with SD's but of course these boats are pushing 35 years old. Does that significantly increase that maintenance of those drives?
The fitout and interior condition of the boat on shafts is higher but so is the price. Would welcome any opinions on which would be the better choice & why.
Thanks in advance. Jeff.

 

[Comodave]

Welcome aboard.

 

[Jeff390]

Thanks Comodave. Have I posted this in the right forum?

 

[Comodave]

It is ok here.

 

[BruceK]

The NZ built Markline 1100 is well known and well regarded in Australia. Buy the one with shaft drive, it sounds the better boat even without stern drive considerations.
The hull is more planing than semi displacement but should operate well, efficiently and economically,at hull speed.

Years ago I nearly bought my first power boat with stern drives, glad I didn`t. The problem is keeping water outside and oil inside the stern drive. You are reliant on seals, I prefer the gearbox out of the water than in it. I watched our marina mechanic, an expert on stern drives cleaning dismantling and repairing them, it`s no easy task. They really need annual attention,without which condition can get away from you and need major attention,shell growth alone seems a major issue.
Discussions on TF indicate issues with Volvo parts availability and cost but both boats have them and there are plenty of Volvo 165s around. My understanding is "165" is a model rather than a power output, many were 135hp.

 

[Jeff390]

Discussions on TF indicate issues with Volvo parts availability and cost but both boats have them and there are plenty of Volvo 165s around. My understanding is "165" is a model rather than a power output, many were 135hp.

Thanks Bruce. Much appreciated. The 165 is the hp rating. Apparently they came with 165hp AQAD40 engines or 200hp AQAD41 versions. I'm not too interested in speed but just wonder whether driving a planing Hull at only ever 13 kn or so is the best way to go?

 

[BruceK]

Hi Jeff,
I`ve not been on one running, but have been onboard chatting with a devoted owner and was impressed with the layout etc. The hulls are much like Riviera, which can plane but also operate well at hull speed(square root of LWL, around 7-8 knots) like a trawler. Takes a lot more fuel to achieve planing speeds but it`s useful to have that ability to meet circumstances. Many here accept hull speed as the usual operating speed. I`d guess that at 13 knots it would plane but noise, fuel consumption, maybe some transom drag,might discourage it long term. My semi displacement boat (2x Cummins 210s) will almost plane but it`s not fun doing it.

Does the boat have trim tabs? That would help with planing. You might be able to post a link to the advert if the TF system permits.

 

[Benthic2]

When you think about the boats that have to go out ( USCG, lobstermen, Sherriff's Dept, SeaTow Harbormasters, etc), have you ever seen one of them that was a stern drive ?

That can't be a coincidence.

 

[Comodave]

I have been on a CG small boat with a stern drive on it. They aren’t as popular but they did have them, now they mostly use outboard power.

 

[Jeff390]

When you think about the boats that have to go out ( USCG, lobstermen, Sherriff's Dept, SeaTow Harbormasters, etc), have you ever seen one of them that was a stern drive ?

That can't be a coincidence.

Thanks and I take your point. I'm definitely the novice here so I'm taking it all on board. Just notice when I walk through any pleasure boat marina here a HUGE portion of the power boat are running stern drives. They are incredibly common. Why would such a flawed and troublesome technology be so popular? Is there something I'm missing? Even brand new boats costing 10 times what I'll be paying come fitted with these drives....?

 

[Jeff390]

Does the boat have trim tabs? That would help with planing. You might be able to post a link to the advert if the TF system permits.

It does have tabs which I'm sure should would help. Unfortunately no advert as it's a private sale. I approached the owners directly.

 

[BeeJay]

It does have tabs which I'm sure should would help. Unfortunately no advert as it's a private sale. I approached the owners directly.

Check out the price of replacement stern drives and you will have your answer.

 

[darkside]

Consider also how you will use the boat. Will the home port be Nelson? If so it's a fair step to D'Urville or Torrent Bay. That extra pace might make the weekend escape that much more enjoyable.
My last five boats have been stern drive, stern drive, vee drive, stern drive, shaft. All of them have their merits.
For sure more maintenance with stern legs but there are other advantages.
Markline 1100s are a lot of bang for your buck.

 

[Bmarler]

I dislike stern drives on a boat that stays in the water full time. They’re ok on a trailerable boat where you can easily check on the gear case.

 

[Jeff390]

For sure more maintenance with stern legs but there are other advantages.
Markline 1100s are a lot of bang for your buck.

Thanks Darkside, much appreciated. Aside from more speed and abit less draft what other advantages would 35 year old stern legs offer over similarly aged shafts? Maybe better fuel efficiency? If I'm just weighing up abit more speed against a lot more maintenance (cost) it would seem that the shafty might be the better option. Are there any other advantages to the SDs that I'm not taking into account?

 

[Benthic2]

There is a flexible rubber bellows below the water line in a stern drive that you can't see. When it fails ( and EVERYTHING fails ), your boat sinks.

 

[Comodave]

There is a flexible rubber bellows below the water line in a stern drive that you can't see. When it fails ( and EVERYTHING fails ), your boat sinks.

If you replace the bellows on a preventive maintenance schedule they are fine. But like everything if you never service it then it will break.

 

[DennisB1]

I would vote for the shaft version. Reason available of shafts, props, cutlass bearings. The question on the outdrives would be parts available on 35 year old units in the coming years. They may not be available. Also check on parts availability for the engines and gears. Good luck on your purchase.

 

[Jeff390]

Thanks Dennis.

 

[BruceK]

Thanks and I take your point. I'm definitely the novice here so I'm taking it all on board. Just notice when I walk through any pleasure boat marina here a HUGE portion of the power boat are running stern drives. They are incredibly common. Why would such a flawed and troublesome technology be so popular? Is there something I'm missing? Even brand new boats costing 10 times what I'll be paying come fitted with these drives....?

I thought the use of stern drives had waned. One reason was they kept all the mechanicals well aft, creating space where shaft drive engines would be. Another is economy of build.

I`m trying to picture where the Markline 1100 engines are located, midship or well aft? Are V drives involved? I don`t think so, but if if they are,that needs to be considered.
Here`s an advert for a sold boat (re-engined),with stern drives:https://www.boatsonline.com.au/boat...e-1100-flybridge-cruiser-island-nights/285193

 

[Jeff390]

Hi Bruce.
A family member ordered a brand new Bavaria from the factory a year or 2 ago. Around 40ft+ Very little change from $700k AUD and it came from the factory with SDs.
Re your link. That's exactly where the engines are fitted originally on the SD equipped boats. As aft as can be really. The shaft driven engines are fitted midships under the saloon.
Definitely tending towards the shaft drive unless someone can point out benefits for the SDs that I haven't thought of.
Still wonder though about the wisdom of only ever driving a planing Hull at displacement speeds - as would be the case with the shaft driven boat.

 

[rslifkin]

How a planing hull handles at lower speeds really varies a lot depending on the hull, how big the rudders are, etc. I've got a planing hull, but we typically cruise around 6.5 kts. It handles nicely at that speed, although there are times where speeding up puts the hull at its best.

It does sound like the shaft drive Markline is a bit underpowered, but depending on your cruising plans, that's not necessarily a big issue. Plenty of "SD" trawlers are pretty much a planing hull that just doesn't have the power to plane.

I'm no fan of sterndrives for a variety of reasons, but they are typically faster and more efficient at planing speeds. Being Volvos makes me lean away from them even more, as I can't say (at least in the US) that I've ever known anyone with a Volvo powered boat that would willingly buy another. Cost and availability of parts and maintenance is the most common concern (the hardware itself is generally fine though).

 

[BruceK]

Hi Bruce.
A family member ordered a brand new Bavaria from the factory a year or 2 ago. Around 40ft+ Very little change from $700k AUD and it came from the factory with SDs.
Re your link. That's exactly where the engines are fitted originally on the SD equipped boats. As aft as can be really. The shaft driven engines are fitted midships under the saloon.
Definitely tending towards the shaft drive unless someone can point out benefits for the SDs that I haven't thought of.
Still wonder though about the wisdom of only ever driving a planing Hull at displacement speeds - as would be the case with the shaft driven boat.

You should have much better access to the engines on the shaft drive version over the sterndrive.
Most TF member boats are semi displacement(SD) hulls, some are full displacement(FD), so your audience generally accepts running at hull speed. SD boats will plane(more or less),with disproportionate high fuel usage,lots of noise, big wake,perhaps vibration, etc. It`s desirable to periodically run turbo engines hard for at least short periods to clean up deposits etc, so you should have the Markline on the plane regularly. Beyond that operation speed is personal preference, you can run it as a planing boat (subject to speed restrictions of course). Not having run a Markline, query how well the shaft version planes, a pre-purchase sea trial or chat with the owner should tell you.

Hope it goes well. A Markline 1100 was my second choice when I bought the Island Gypsy 36.

 

[Southern Boater]

My vote is also for the shaft drive version, also for most of the reasons stated above. If boating is new to you, the added maintenance and expense will quickly lose any shine over potential performance figures. There are no upsides for a pair of 35 year old sterndrives, despite some sellers stating performance figures from either when the boat was new, or modern equivalents.
The upside of having a boat with the potential to exceed hull speed, especially by quite a bit, is the ability to increase stabilisation in a beam or quartering seas by raising the speed and sitting the boat firmly on its chines, also riding the back of a wave into a river bar entrance.
The Markline does, and always did represent great bang for buck, and back in the late 80’s Volvo delivered multiple power options for southern hemisphere boat builders, especially diesel sterndrives.
Other manufacturers tried and failed, but the fact there are still 35 year old “survivors” out there is a testament to their potential. Personally I wouldn’t want to own one, just to be clear ;-)

 

[Jeff390]

Thanks Folks. Appreciate the solid advice. My ideal would now be the Markline 1100 on shafts fitted with the 200hp volvos. The one I'm looking at has 165 volvos but I'm certainly not going to discount it based on that. It's a very well cared for and equipped boat. Will have the opportunity to sea trial her with her current owners in October. Will let you all know how it goes.

 

[hmason]

I've owned 2 stern drive boats. Never again. 'Nuff said.

 

[Southern Boater]

Thanks Folks. Appreciate the solid advice. My ideal would now be the Markline 1100 on shafts fitted with the 200hp volvos. The one I'm looking at has 165 volvos but I'm certainly not going to discount it based on that. It's a very well cared for and equipped boat. Will have the opportunity to sea trial her with her current owners in October. Will let you all know how it goes.

The 41 series, 200 hp, were regarded as a definite improvement on the 40’s

 

[Moreton Ray]

Hi Folks,
We're considering buying our first launch. Have found the Markline 1100 & decided it's pretty much everything we're looking for.
We've found 2x for sale one on shafts & the other running stern legs, Both powered by 165hp Volvos that are well maintained. The boat on shafts cruises at around 9-12kn & is flat out around 14kn. The boat on stern drives cruises around 18 & maxes out about 22.
I know the maintenance is way higher with SD's but of course these boats are pushing 35 years old. Does that significantly increase that maintenance of those drives?
The fitout and interior condition of the boat on shafts is higher but so is the price. Would welcome any opinions on which would be the better choice & why.
Thanks in advance. Jeff.

Hello Jeff, I have an 1100 with sterndrives, all original 1985 gear. AQAD40s, 165hp each. Every year when anti fouling I change the oil, and replace anodes, every 2nd year my Volvo guy replaces the bellows. So stern drives for me are pretty solid when maintained. The biggest thing you have to watch out for with all 165s shaft or SD is cooling system servicing.
All parts are available through Volvo still (some very expensive, some fair), although I did have to make one gasket. Servicing the cooling system on the starboard engine is doable if you have a non- cluttered space, but I’d say the port one would be impossible without lifting the engine out. I did both mine 3 years ago and just lifted them both out. So the biggest tip for you is to seek cooling system maintenance records or thoroughly inspect the aftercooler, oil cooler, and main heat exchanger on each before you decide how much to offer. Good luck.

 

[Jeff390]

Thanks Moreton Ray. Will send you a PM with a couple of questions specific to the Markline 1100 that I'm hoping you'll be good enough to answer. Cheers Jeff

 

[Kit_L]

I second Moreton Bay's perspective. Our vessel has SDs, and 2 x 285 hp Volvo Penta KAD 300s. We bought with 400-odd hours on the engines, which are 2006 models, so 16+ years old.

It was obvious that the valves had never been adjusted (and this is more involved than most OHV marine engines because the injectors sit in the valve cover, and have to be removes as do the fuel lines themselves). So we (mechanic and I) did a full engine service plus valve adjustments a few months after we got her.

Then six months later, all the raw-water cooling parts were removed, acid washed, descaled, and replaced
(oil cooler, heat exchangers, intercoolers). There is almost no room in the hulls around these engines, so this took experience and dexterity. The shaft drive engines will require all this servicing too. The big difference between the two boats you are thinking about is the stern drives.

While on the slip, the SDs were removed, and there was water in the oil in both. The cases were split and top and bottom seals replaced. Our SDs have "barnacle busters" (a NZ product), like a mesh encasing for the bellows—these keep the barnacles out of all the little places they can get in to (and there are MANY); if they get on to the bellows' surfaces, a cut that lets water in is just a matter of time, where we are. I recommend these and they are available in Australia now.

Our SDs do not use the legs for water cooling; we have through-hulls and Volvo water strainers; same with the exhaust (wet exhausts). In the standard configuration, the legs draw salt water in to the systems for engine cooling, but our setup is a common modification, I have been told.

I do not know yet if the seals are working perfectly; we will be checking this in February, the next slip date. Our mechanic feels that as long as the bellows are replaced annually and the barnacle busters refitted (these are 15 or so years old) SDs are reliable but servicing is more expensive overall than shafts. And as someone mentioned, replacing SDs is very expensive (here, ~$18,000 each). We will replace the barnacle busters next slipping.

One things that is not mentioned on the plus side with SDs is that boats with them can be driven in "beach mode" (SD angles angles between 7° and (say) 15°, as long as you don't use over 1,000rpm—this allows access to very skinny water (our cat draws about 600mm, or 2'). Because the sand bar North of us moved about 75m South in the last flood, reducing the water under the boat from 2.5m to 700mm, we use this facility every time we leave and return to the mooring. Using beach mode another reason the modification re. raw water intake is a good idea, too.