ctjstr
Senior Member
- Joined
- Nov 24, 2017
- Messages
- 399
- Location
- United States
- Vessel Name
- "Convergence"
- Vessel Make
- Camano Troll
Ha...if you cook like I do, everyone wants me in the down galley.
Camano 31 Reality Check
- Thread starter TollyLucia
- Start date
The friendliest place on the web for anyone who enjoys boating.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
Ha...if you cook like I do, everyone wants me in the down galley.
TollyLucia,
You mention you have a Tollycraft? Why don't you put that in service?
Regardless of boat, I could argue not to have two (if you can) and not to store one for a year while you run off to Spain. But if you absolutely must, arrange for someone to use it.
As for Florida summers... they're HOT. I rarely try to run the AC during the day. Just open up everything and enjoy the breeze.
You mention you have a Tollycraft? Why don't you put that in service?
Regardless of boat, I could argue not to have two (if you can) and not to store one for a year while you run off to Spain. But if you absolutely must, arrange for someone to use it.
As for Florida summers... they're HOT. I rarely try to run the AC during the day. Just open up everything and enjoy the breeze.
NCheaven
Senior Member
There have been several good posts on other links on TF about hull design, one recently about displacement hulls. Check those out. Autopilots react but don't anticipate. Switching to manual steering on Delaware Bay around 3' stern waves helped a lot, as they built to well over 4' and I spent 8 hours at the wheel....slept well that night! A flat stern is lifted by a wave. A round or canoe stern is not lifted as much. A large wave can move a flat stern boat toward a broach. It's worth learning how to handle stern waves from some old salts or from US Power Squadron courses/instructors. Chapman's also is a likely good first step to learn more. Most importantly, know your weather forecasts before leaving home port, and let your experience level help you determine what weather you want to take on. Start with "bluebird days", light winds, and learn by practicing near home port. Take all the US Power Squadron courses you can take, on line and in person. If you choose a Camano, find some other local Camano owners for their experience in various weather, docking, etc, conversations. Having said that, there are plenty of good reasons that right now there are only 11 Camano 31s on the market out of a run of 262 or so hulls made, with the prices holding up very well, too. These are great boats, but no boat will exceed expectations without good training and planned practice/drills. Same goes for maintenance...learn before you need help. Lastly, gas boats are more dangerous than diesel boats. Learn the difference, and take good note of what fuel serious passagemakers use for long blue water cruising. Do you really want to be cooking on a gasoline fueled boat? I'm delighted with my Camano. Never looked carefully at more expensive (roughly 2x for same age/hours) Nordic Tug 32/34s, but the dockmates with those are very happy. Best idea is to join the Power Squardron, take courses, go slowly about making a purchase decision. Trawlerfest 9 months before I bought my Camano was a wise choice, and a Steve Zimmerman course helped me decide what to buy - matching my intended uses to hull type, size using charts he shared in the class. From those, I knew I was on the right track in choosing a Camano for my intended uses - coastal cruising in North Carolina's mostly inland waters, the Chesapeake, etc.
One more thing - read a volvo engine manual. Mine suggests not running wide open throttle beyond a certain amount. A recent PassageMaker article by Steve Zimmerman addressed engine longevity with comments on how often runs at more than 30% engine capacity, etc. If 12 kt means a whole lot to you, do you want to run at 80% of engine capacity? Or do you want a different kind of boat designed for a steady diet of 12 or whatever kt? My intended crusing between 6.5 kt (practical hull speed) and 7.8 max "cruising speed" works well with a Camano. I rarely run more than 30% of a day over 7.8 kt.
Best wishes for a fun process of learning about hull shapes, engines, fuels, and what your intended uses uses mean in terms of choosing the right boat for those uses.
After having read what I've written so far, the smartest thing I did was go to Trawlerfest and take a Steve Zimmerman class about what to ask when buying a new boat. I thought by having had 3 sailboats and 2 powerboats previously, I was ready to buy a trawler. Wrong. Steve bridged the gap for me, and I subsequently moved forward carefully and more confidently.
Alex
One more thing - read a volvo engine manual. Mine suggests not running wide open throttle beyond a certain amount. A recent PassageMaker article by Steve Zimmerman addressed engine longevity with comments on how often runs at more than 30% engine capacity, etc. If 12 kt means a whole lot to you, do you want to run at 80% of engine capacity? Or do you want a different kind of boat designed for a steady diet of 12 or whatever kt? My intended crusing between 6.5 kt (practical hull speed) and 7.8 max "cruising speed" works well with a Camano. I rarely run more than 30% of a day over 7.8 kt.
Best wishes for a fun process of learning about hull shapes, engines, fuels, and what your intended uses uses mean in terms of choosing the right boat for those uses.
After having read what I've written so far, the smartest thing I did was go to Trawlerfest and take a Steve Zimmerman class about what to ask when buying a new boat. I thought by having had 3 sailboats and 2 powerboats previously, I was ready to buy a trawler. Wrong. Steve bridged the gap for me, and I subsequently moved forward carefully and more confidently.
Alex
MiltonP
Senior Member
Same chain of events here!
Funny, I attended Trawlerfest in Stuart roughly two years ago and took the course with Zimmerman. Only took me a few months after to find my way to the Camano.
Funny, I attended Trawlerfest in Stuart roughly two years ago and took the course with Zimmerman. Only took me a few months after to find my way to the Camano.
NCheaven
Senior Member
I apologize for not responding earlier. Stern sea of 3' or more can push the boat into the back of the previous wave, and push the stern to one side or another - a problem in shallower bodies of water like Delaware Bay. It's too much for the Auto Pilot to handle, so in that condition - maybe 4', I put the auto pilot on standby, and manually steered for roughly 7 hours for most of the length of Delaware Bay. Experienced boaters in your marina can tell you about stern winds in local waters. I do think it's safer to exit the flybridge earlier rather than later as stern winds build. If you look at the hull shapes of other semi-displacement boats, including "tugs", you'll see that most of them also have flat bottoms for the last 1/3 of the boat, and the stern on these will be lifted in a following sea. If you want a boat that will approach a plane, the stern sea issue will most likely be present. Again, ask owners in your marina - sport fisherman boats, NW built "tugs", lighter "tugs", etc. If you haven't been to trawlerfest, I recommend it. Steve Zimmerman's class on pre-purchase considerations covers hull shapes, size, speed, and much more - best pre-purchase investment I am aware of - might save you from buying the wrong boat!
NorthernMariner
Member
- Joined
- Aug 30, 2019
- Messages
- 12
- Location
- Canada
- Vessel Name
- Chenil
- Vessel Make
- 1969 33' Concorde Pilothouse
New trawler forum member looking to purchase a trawler for use in Lake Ontario (home port Toronto). Jason mentioned further up on this thread that the Camino may not be appropriate in cooler climes - can anyone advise why (hull fabrication?). Anything else re Camino in Great Lakes region would be appreciated. I started out viewing Marine Trawlers, then Prowlers, discovered Mainships (which I am very keen on but there is limited availability here) and then this morning, a Camino 31 turned up in my home port ...
Sailor of Fortune
Guru
I would think the Camano would be suitable for Lake Ontario service. Its a PNW boat and used in cooler wx...Why wouldn't it be suitable on the Lakes?
NorthernMariner
Member
- Joined
- Aug 30, 2019
- Messages
- 12
- Location
- Canada
- Vessel Name
- Chenil
- Vessel Make
- 1969 33' Concorde Pilothouse
Thanks so much - a local boater (in Toronto) said it wasn't suitable for our winters and I was surprised to hear that and wondered why. Appreciate your quick response. Gwendolyn
Sailor of Fortune
Guru
ahm...your winters are iced in...Probably not a lot of recreational boats going to be suitable for winter service there.
I had 2 Quebec pilots question the ability of the boat I was running to not ice up the strainers...We had duplex strainers (switchable) and were drawing 20'. It was Christmas eve and I realized they probably wanted to be elsewhere... I said "Its winter in Canada, of course there is ice.. what are you going to do, put me to the dock?" They said they were seriously considering it. I said "if we clog a strainer once, we will reassess." They reluctantly agreed and spoke French about me for the rest of the night. I helped the cause by slowing the boat down from 11 plus knots, to about 6 kts. They weren't happy disembarking at 0530 am....
I had 2 Quebec pilots question the ability of the boat I was running to not ice up the strainers...We had duplex strainers (switchable) and were drawing 20'. It was Christmas eve and I realized they probably wanted to be elsewhere... I said "Its winter in Canada, of course there is ice.. what are you going to do, put me to the dock?" They said they were seriously considering it. I said "if we clog a strainer once, we will reassess." They reluctantly agreed and spoke French about me for the rest of the night. I helped the cause by slowing the boat down from 11 plus knots, to about 6 kts. They weren't happy disembarking at 0530 am....
NorWyn
Veteran Member
Camano’s are a very robust build in my opinion. I am guessing you won’t be on the water in February on Lake Ontario and the boat would be on the hard for the winter.
In Vancouver we use ours all year round and with the webasto diesel heater we are always comfortable. Admittedly our climate is not Ontario cold but nevertheless a great boat that you will be able to use to the limits of your realistic boating season, I think.
NCheaven
Senior Member
Re: Your question about sea-worthiness - I pulled into a marina next to a brand new 77' Riva, which had bent props and bent shafts from running the Albemarle-Pungo canal. The Riva has two hanging unprotected props. We all hear a "thump" now and then, and having a full keel, stainless steel solid skeg under the prop, well mounted rudder makes a Camano prop more protected from debris than many other boats. Bob Warman designed Camanos for the Pacific NW waters, lots of floating logs, etc. So, Camanos have very thick hulls, 100% hand laid fiberglass below the water line.
If you search YouTube, you can find a sponsored series narrated by Jimmy Dick, and it covers construction quality, the "Keel-Form" hull design, fuel consumption, comfort, docking, and so much more. There is also a video of testimonials from what looks like a west coast rondy.
A couple of other notes: at the cabin bulkhead, the V-berth is 101 inches, 21 inches WIDER than a King Size Bed, narrower at the V, of course.
Side decks: From the helm you can place a fender line on the cleat for a mid-vessel fender, and by tying of your bow line to the stern cleat, you don't need to go forward on the side decks prior to docking on a face dock or slip with a pier along side. You can run light lines back to the cockpit and use a "clothes line" approach to running out a series of fenders on each side. Look for creative solutions to your concerns.
Be sure to spend some time on the Camano flying bridge. Very many very good boats simply don't have a flybridge. There's a good reason why the lower cost Camanos offered without a flybridge didn't sell well enough to keep that model in production, with 100% of later production being the flybridge model. That's where we spend almost all of our time apart from rain and low sun on the bow.
As for A/C, we don't have a generator, so the flybridge is awesome. Water temp makes coastal air delightful in the breeze created by forward motoin. Fans in the cabin make the cabin comfortable. Our Camano started life as a Florida boat, and that owner installed a second, forward A/C unit, and that is rarely necessary in NC.
Making progress toward your selection?
If you search YouTube, you can find a sponsored series narrated by Jimmy Dick, and it covers construction quality, the "Keel-Form" hull design, fuel consumption, comfort, docking, and so much more. There is also a video of testimonials from what looks like a west coast rondy.
A couple of other notes: at the cabin bulkhead, the V-berth is 101 inches, 21 inches WIDER than a King Size Bed, narrower at the V, of course.
Side decks: From the helm you can place a fender line on the cleat for a mid-vessel fender, and by tying of your bow line to the stern cleat, you don't need to go forward on the side decks prior to docking on a face dock or slip with a pier along side. You can run light lines back to the cockpit and use a "clothes line" approach to running out a series of fenders on each side. Look for creative solutions to your concerns.
Be sure to spend some time on the Camano flying bridge. Very many very good boats simply don't have a flybridge. There's a good reason why the lower cost Camanos offered without a flybridge didn't sell well enough to keep that model in production, with 100% of later production being the flybridge model. That's where we spend almost all of our time apart from rain and low sun on the bow.
As for A/C, we don't have a generator, so the flybridge is awesome. Water temp makes coastal air delightful in the breeze created by forward motoin. Fans in the cabin make the cabin comfortable. Our Camano started life as a Florida boat, and that owner installed a second, forward A/C unit, and that is rarely necessary in NC.
Making progress toward your selection?
YellowPiper
Veteran Member
Camano Comments
Wow Fun thread.
We are retired sailor and purchase a Camano 31 last May.
Many comments here and this is our experience.
1) Went from Niagara 35 sailboat to a Camano 31. So much more room on the camano and so well thought out.
1.1) We bought the boat for doing the Canadian rivers and canal on long weekends and 2 week stints. Never thought it was suitable for the Great loop or live aboard. We bought her from a couple that just did the great loop on her. We will now do the great loop on the Camano 31. Perfect boat for it and will live on her for a 2 year stint soon..
1.2) Two Couples. This is a one couple boat or parents and kid. When we bring another couple with us, and we do, we give them the forward cabin and we take the salon table. All good but much beyond 4 days it is tight. In bad weather at anchour it is tight. 1 couple boat with visitors that wont say long. All good
2) Seaworthyness. Boat will handle anything better than we will. So don't go out in bad weather. The keel form and low engine make this boat handle like a larger boat.
3) We purchased a Mainship pilot 34, and have cruised on a GB36 extensively. The living space on a camano so siginificantly better than the MS P34, add the interior living space and half galley up along with the flying bridge and it is awesome. We have 4 places we live. Upper flybridge, salon, the back deck which is awesome on windy days and the bow for morning coffee, sunsets etc. How do you get that on a 28 foot waterline boat. Grand banks 36 has second cabin and is great in all weather. Issue is old style and very slow. We love the fact that you can go 10 knots easily and if need be pull her on a plan and run at 14 knots.
Re build, the build quality on this boat is on level with GB. Can't compare it a Mainship.
4) cold weather. This is a PNW boat, she is awesome. I live in Toronto and this is a fabulous boat that extentds the season by a month on either end of the summer. First in and last out.
5) Fuel efficient. We have a ton of range, no issue what so ever.
5) holding tank. Small but manageable. 4 days 2 couples is max. Must manage but no issue
6) forward berth. great, no issue with size. I am 6', wife very happy too
One incredibly well thought out boat with awesome performance.
Colin
DeTour
Camano 31
Toronto/Midland
Wow Fun thread.
We are retired sailor and purchase a Camano 31 last May.
Many comments here and this is our experience.
1) Went from Niagara 35 sailboat to a Camano 31. So much more room on the camano and so well thought out.
1.1) We bought the boat for doing the Canadian rivers and canal on long weekends and 2 week stints. Never thought it was suitable for the Great loop or live aboard. We bought her from a couple that just did the great loop on her. We will now do the great loop on the Camano 31. Perfect boat for it and will live on her for a 2 year stint soon..
1.2) Two Couples. This is a one couple boat or parents and kid. When we bring another couple with us, and we do, we give them the forward cabin and we take the salon table. All good but much beyond 4 days it is tight. In bad weather at anchour it is tight. 1 couple boat with visitors that wont say long. All good
2) Seaworthyness. Boat will handle anything better than we will. So don't go out in bad weather. The keel form and low engine make this boat handle like a larger boat.
3) We purchased a Mainship pilot 34, and have cruised on a GB36 extensively. The living space on a camano so siginificantly better than the MS P34, add the interior living space and half galley up along with the flying bridge and it is awesome. We have 4 places we live. Upper flybridge, salon, the back deck which is awesome on windy days and the bow for morning coffee, sunsets etc. How do you get that on a 28 foot waterline boat. Grand banks 36 has second cabin and is great in all weather. Issue is old style and very slow. We love the fact that you can go 10 knots easily and if need be pull her on a plan and run at 14 knots.
Re build, the build quality on this boat is on level with GB. Can't compare it a Mainship.
4) cold weather. This is a PNW boat, she is awesome. I live in Toronto and this is a fabulous boat that extentds the season by a month on either end of the summer. First in and last out.
5) Fuel efficient. We have a ton of range, no issue what so ever.
5) holding tank. Small but manageable. 4 days 2 couples is max. Must manage but no issue
6) forward berth. great, no issue with size. I am 6', wife very happy too
One incredibly well thought out boat with awesome performance.
Colin
DeTour
Camano 31
Toronto/Midland
rsn48
Guru
- Joined
- Feb 18, 2019
- Messages
- 2,019
- Location
- Canada
- Vessel Name
- Capricorn
- Vessel Make
- Mariner 30 - Sedan Cruiser 1969
This boat was built for Pacific Northwest and above waters. The designer would have spent time boating on the Salish Sea which can turn nasty at times and so he would have been conscious of designing a vessel that can handle "troubled waters." He would also know that some of his boats would visit Alaska and travelled the west coast area of Vancouver Island (open ocean). So as the old saying goes, your boat will take more than you can.
Your and my boat are roughly the same size with yours being a bit beamier and a smaller cockpit which provides more interior space. As has been suggested, you can enclose the upper bridge which would provide you with another protected sleeping area. My boat has a larger canvas enclosed cockpit when the sides are rolled down, so I can fit an inflatable single bed which I will use when I have guests using the dinette and V berth areas.
My bias is against enclosed flybridges but many cruisers have them and are happy with them. When you enclose the flybridge, the center of gravity is moved up a bit and the effects from side winds become more pronounced, translation - your boat will swing more in a side wind, an issue on the Strait of Georgia.
Below is a copy and paste of a review of the Camano I'm sure you have read.
If you're looking for a small cruising boat with character, quality and economical performance you should
take a look at the Camano 28/31.
Designed by Vancouver naval architect Bob Warman, the style of the Camano 28, with its high nearly
plumb bow, radiused transom and prominent deck saloon is certainly influenced by Pacific Northwest
workboats. Not so apparent are some of the innovative design features Warman incorporated. Below the
waterline there is a broad, deep keel and double chine forward that, without going into a bunch of techno -
talk, improve the efficiency and operational characteristics of the design.
The Camano 28 was built on a limited production basis (about 12 boats a year) by the company Warman
founded in 1989 until the company was sold in 1997. The new owners moved to a larger facility in Delta,
British Columbia and increased production capacity until there are now more then 250 of these models
built. Although the manufacturer still specifies the length on deck as 28 feet, the model is now marketed
as the Camano 31. This reflects the overall length of the vessel which includes the swim platform and
stainless anchor davit at the bow. The beam of 10 feet, 6 inches, draft of 3 feet, 3 inches and displacement
of 10,000 lbs. are all rather substantial for a 28-footer
https://www.salts.ca/media/documents/boat-dono/camano-28-articles.pdf
Your and my boat are roughly the same size with yours being a bit beamier and a smaller cockpit which provides more interior space. As has been suggested, you can enclose the upper bridge which would provide you with another protected sleeping area. My boat has a larger canvas enclosed cockpit when the sides are rolled down, so I can fit an inflatable single bed which I will use when I have guests using the dinette and V berth areas.
My bias is against enclosed flybridges but many cruisers have them and are happy with them. When you enclose the flybridge, the center of gravity is moved up a bit and the effects from side winds become more pronounced, translation - your boat will swing more in a side wind, an issue on the Strait of Georgia.
Below is a copy and paste of a review of the Camano I'm sure you have read.
If you're looking for a small cruising boat with character, quality and economical performance you should
take a look at the Camano 28/31.
Designed by Vancouver naval architect Bob Warman, the style of the Camano 28, with its high nearly
plumb bow, radiused transom and prominent deck saloon is certainly influenced by Pacific Northwest
workboats. Not so apparent are some of the innovative design features Warman incorporated. Below the
waterline there is a broad, deep keel and double chine forward that, without going into a bunch of techno -
talk, improve the efficiency and operational characteristics of the design.
The Camano 28 was built on a limited production basis (about 12 boats a year) by the company Warman
founded in 1989 until the company was sold in 1997. The new owners moved to a larger facility in Delta,
British Columbia and increased production capacity until there are now more then 250 of these models
built. Although the manufacturer still specifies the length on deck as 28 feet, the model is now marketed
as the Camano 31. This reflects the overall length of the vessel which includes the swim platform and
stainless anchor davit at the bow. The beam of 10 feet, 6 inches, draft of 3 feet, 3 inches and displacement
of 10,000 lbs. are all rather substantial for a 28-footer
https://www.salts.ca/media/documents/boat-dono/camano-28-articles.pdf
kdebelser
Member
An easy fix to the small holding tank is the installation of a composting toilet. See one manufacturer here: https://natureshead.net/
We are so very pleased with it!
We are so very pleased with it!
Durant F
Guru
My 2 cents having cruised 3 months at a time on 3 occasions aboard Emma B.
Great couples boat.
Tight for 4!
Excellent Keys or Bahamas boat with shallow draft and flybridge views.
Modify to suite
Pump direct over on Bahamas, or add macerator pump
No pump outs in the Abacos.
Love mine!
Great couples boat.
Tight for 4!
Excellent Keys or Bahamas boat with shallow draft and flybridge views.
Modify to suite
Pump direct over on Bahamas, or add macerator pump
No pump outs in the Abacos.
Love mine!
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