Camano 31 Troll vs ?

[Carolena]

Greetings all - I've been reading the forums here for some time, and recently signed up. My wife and I have been boating since we were kids, and currently own a Pearson 303 sailboat (3rd boat as a couple). Due to the type of boating we do, we are about to make a switch to a semidisplacement power boat, likley a Camano 31 (not our first power boat). We are very familiar with the Camano, have recently been on several that are on the market, and are flying out this weekend to look at two more. Basically, we are ready to make an offer on the right boat. All that said, we also considered the IG 32 and Nordic Tug 32. Although both of those boats have some great advantages, we keep coming back to the Camano due to the combination of flybridge, build quality and speed/economy, among other reasons. We also want to try and stay in a 35 foot slip (and our marina is very strict about fitting within the confines of the slip). As we work our way toward making the jump, any thoughts on the Camano or other similar type boats? Open to all thoughts and suggestions, and also hoping Ron may chime in with his experience with High Cotton.

PS - Carolena is the name of our sailboat, but I left S/V out of the name for this forum in the event we become powerboaters in the very near future.

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Welcome aboard!

 

[Carolena]

Thanks, RT. I should have probably added in my first post that we have budgeted a final purchase price around $100k +/- 20%. That will leave us with the necessary cushion for all the added expenses of purchasing a used boat. My wife and I have been saying for the past few years what a great time to buy a boat, and right now it is also right for us.

 

[ARoss]

We have a couple of Camano's in our marina, and the owners are happy with their boats. Your options of the Nordic ( pricier, and rarely found with a flybridge) and IG32 (more traditional and slower trawler) don't seem to fit the things you say you want. The only downside I personally see to the Camano is that access forward for anchoring/docking requires a pretty sure-footed shipmate. I'd never get my wife to try that in anything less than a dead calm. We like the full walkaround protected sides on our old MT34.

 

[Carolena]

The only downside I personally see to the Camano is that access forward for anchoring/docking requires a pretty sure-footed shipmate. I'd never get my wife to try that in anything less than a dead calm. We like the full walkaround protected sides on our old MT34.

I agree - did the walk on one and it is a little precarious. Fortunately, we are both still fairly young and surefooted. That and being used to walking to the mast on a healing/heaving deck to adjust the main halyard has been good training. We figured we would be moving to a larger sailboat around now, but have changed our sights. It would be nice to have an island berth and separate shower, but that doesn't really exist in anything that will fit our 35ft. slip, and those are not deal breakers for us. Gotta save something for the next boat . . . The Camano seems to be the best option for what we want and can afford, and we expect to keep it for five to ten years before the next jump, which may be back to sail if we decide to venture offshore down the road. Like many say, buy the boat for your current plans, not some future dream. Anyway, just looking for some feedback and to make sure we aren't missing any other models that we should be looking at.

 

[Portuguese]

Welcome Calorena

Be happy with whatever boat you have/buy. That's your only obligation!

Saludos

Portuguese

 

[DavidM]

I chartered a Camano 31 in the PNW a few years ago. It was a great boat. I was amazed at how little fuel we used, although we cruised it at hull speed except for a few hours battling a current.

It would hit 12 kts at fast cruise.

The lower helm chair is a bit of a joke, but I guess it works ok in a pinch.

I would rip out the table in the main salon and at best replace it with a moveable teak table so it would be more comfortable to sit in the L shaped settee.

David

 

[Carolena]

The lower helm chair is a bit of a joke, but I guess it works ok in a pinch.

I would rip out the table in the main salon and at best replace it with a moveable teak table so it would be more comfortable to sit in the L shaped settee.

David

I think the helm chairs were all custom options - at least from our experience, every boat we've looked at had a different setup. We've also seen some nice custom options for the table, one of which was setup like the cockpit tables in sailboats with two wings that fold down. We liked it becuase it really opens up the saloon but can convert to the larger table if needed. If the boat we ultimatley buy has only the original table, I do see a trip to a local furniture maker in the future. Thanks for all the comments, everyone, and still hoping Ron makes an appearance with some additional personal experience. Given that no one has yet come up with a similar type boat that we haven't already considered does make me feel better about our search for the right model/manufacturer for us being pretty much complete.

As for the OP post about enjoying the boat you have, agree 100%. We were on the sailboat last weekend and had a great time even though there wasn't enough wind to sail. Instead we just played slow powerboat burning about .5 gals. of diesel an hour at a leisurely 5.5 knots.

 

[rwidman]

I own one and I am very pleased with it. If you have any questions, I will do my best to answer them.

Here are some photos:

PictureTrail: Online Photo Sharing, Social Network, Image Hosting, Online Photo Albums

PictureTrail: Online Photo Sharing, Social Network, Image Hosting, Online Photo Albums

Here is a day by day account of a recent 31 day cruise:

http://www.widman.biz/indigo/Adventures_of_HIGH_COTTON.pdf

The last page sums up costs.

 

[rwidman]

............ The only downside I personally see to the Camano is that access forward for anchoring/docking requires a pretty sure-footed shipmate. I'd never get my wife to try that in anything less than a dead calm..

There's a rail to hold on to while you're on the side decks. You can go through the forward hatch if you really need to. If necessary, I give my wife the helm and do what's needed myself. I bought, but haven't yet used, inflatable PFDs to use if necessary.

The lower helm chair is a bit of a joke, but I guess it works ok in a pinch.

I would rip out the table in the main salon and at best replace it with a moveable teak table so it would be more comfortable to sit in the L shaped settee.

The lower helm chair was an option. I use a folding director's chair if I have to operate from the lower helm for any lenght of time. I store it under the rear cabin floor hatch out of the way.

We use the settee all the time and like having the table. That's where we eat. Some owners have changed the top to something hinged but I haven't felt the need to. I suppose it might be a problem for really large people.

 

[Carolena]

Thanks, Ron. I had come across one of your picture galleries and the piece about your trip during my initial research on the Camano. I hadn't seen the pictures of the upgrades - the floor looks amazing! I wish I had those sort of woodworking skills - I'm great with mechanics and fiberglass, but can't cut a straight line in wood to save my soul. By the way, I PM'd you about the possibility of talking directly about your thoughts on the boat.

 

[OFB]

Canmar Yachts » Layout

Always nice to see a few options. I like the commander 30 .

 

[Marin]

Based on a walk though of one at the Vancouver boat show a few years ago my opinion is the Commander 30 makes better and more intelligent use of interior space than any other 30-foot production boat on the planet.

 

[ksanders]

Based on a walk though of one at the Vancouver boat show a few years ago my opinion is the Commander 30 makes better and more intelligent use of interior space than any other 30-foot production boat on the planet.

Isn't the commander 30 a full planing hull boat?

Isn't the troll a Semi displacement boat with a keel?

Please correct me where I'm wrong but if thats the case then they are really different boats and uses altogether.

The planing hull boat will be happier up on plane. The full keel boat will do better at displacement speeds.

If we're looking at planing hull boats then there are lots of options. Norstar is another one.

 

[rwidman]

Isn't the commander 30 a full planing hull boat?

Isn't the troll a Semi displacement boat with a keel?

Please correct me where I'm wrong but if thats the case then they are really different boats and uses altogether.

The planing hull boat will be happier up on plane. The full keel boat will do better at displacement speeds.

If we're looking at planing hull boats then there are lots of options. Norstar is another one.

The Camano Troll (or Gnome) has a full keel with a skeg that protects the prop and rudder. Yes, it's "semi planing". It can reach 13 K and cruise at 11 or 12K if necessary with a very significant decrease in economy. I normally run mine at 2K RPM which provides a speed of about 7 K over water and a fuel burn of about 1.8 GPH.

That Commander 30 looks a lot like an old Carver that's at my marina.

 

[ksanders]

The Camano Troll (or Gnome) has a full keel with a skeg that protects the prop and rudder. Yes, it's "semi planing". It can reach 13 K and cruise at 11 or 12K if necessary with a very significant decrease in economy. I normally run mine at 2K RPM which provides a speed of about 7 K over water and a fuel burn of about 1.8 GPH.

That Commander 30 looks a lot like an old Carver that's at my marina.

Exactly.

There are plenty of 30' planing hull boats to choose from.

Much less choice in a 30' semi displacement boat.

I really do not think you'll find anything that has not been mentioned. In the 30' range you could go for the Nordic Tug, the Ranger Tug, and the Camano.

Of those I like the Camano the best. Nice looking boats.

 

[rwidman]

Of those I like the Camano the best. Nice looking boats.

Thanks. We get a lot of compliments, but most of the other boats at our marina are sport cruisers.

 

[OFB]

Isn't the commander 30 a full planing hull boat?

Isn't the troll a Semi displacement boat with a keel?

Please correct me where I'm wrong but if thats the case then they are really different boats and uses altogether.

The planing hull boat will be happier up on plane. The full keel boat will do better at displacement speeds.

If we're looking at planing hull boats then there are lots of options. Norstar is another one.

Agreed its kinda my point. at 30 feet of boat , buck for buck why not have more space and be able to cruise at 22 knots. I mean why the hell stay around to roll around at 7 knots when the nimble boat will get up and have some fun. Yet troll for salmon all day long when you want.

 

[HopCar]

If you want to do some diving or fishing as well as cruising, you might consider the Ellis 28. It's the same length as the Camano, 28' on deck, but it trades interior room for a bigger cockpit. Ellis doesn't count the pulpit or dive platform in the length. It's a tiny bit faster. Mine will do a little better than 16 knots with a 210 hp Cummins. As I get older and do less diving and fishing I keep looking at that nice big bridge and extra interior space on the Camano.
Ellis Boat Company - Ellis 28 Flybridge Cruiser

 

[rwidman]

.......... at 30 feet of boat , buck for buck why not have more space and be able to cruise at 22 knots. I mean why the hell stay around to roll around at 7 knots when the nimble boat will get up and have some fun. Yet troll for salmon all day long when you want.

I think it has less space if you include the flybridge.

Speed is a matter of personal prefference. My rule is, if I'm in a hurry, I'll drive or even fly. If I want to enjoy "boating", I'll take the boat at 7 knots.

If you want or think you need a faster boat, by all means buy a faster boat. Buy a "go fast" boat if that suits you. That doesn't mean there's anything wrong with a slower boat.

 

[Carolena]

Thanks for all the suggestions, everyone. I'm familiar with and like the Commander, but we are more interested in a single screw semidisplacement for a number of reasons. The Ellis looks nice, HopCar, but we really like the interior layout and flybridge on the Camano. I think an Ellis 32 may fit the bill, but none on the East Coast for sale and it looks it like it would be above our self-imposed spending limit. Ranger Tug is a bit narrow, and the Nordic 32, which we also like, lacks the flybridge (we love driving outside when weather permits) and is also right at 35 ft loa with the swim platform and anchor. That means we couldn't put it in a 35ft. slip, which is important to us to be able to stay at our current marina. We've given the Nordic a hard look and think it is a great boat, but right now it just doesn't fit our style of boating. Again, I want to thank everyone for coming in with ideas - as we all know, buying a boat is a big purchase and we want to make sure we have not missed any option.

 

[ancora]

Have a buddy who has a Camano Troll and ran an off-shore Log Race with him as crew. With the engine mounted down low, the boat rode a whole lot better than my 40 foot sundeck trawler. He pilots from the lower station and never uses the flybridge. In retrospect, he says he would go with the Camano Gnome, if he had to do it over again.

 

[OFB]

I think it has less space if you include the flybridge.

Speed is a matter of personal prefference. My rule is, if I'm in a hurry, I'll drive or even fly. If I want to enjoy "boating", I'll take the boat at 7 knots.

If you want or think you need a faster boat, by all means buy a faster boat. Buy a "go fast" boat if that suits you. That doesn't mean there's anything wrong with a slower boat.

Yup I agree and cruise in an oldfishboat at 6 to 7 knots. Options are always worth consideration IMO. The camano and or the commander can be powered by basicly the same single engine. The commander via outdrive the camano via shaft. Both well built tough boats yet have different and similar build quality and abilities.

I like dreamin , talking bout boats sorry if I came accross a bit like a sales man. I got notin vested in this.

 

[ksanders]

Agreed its kinda my point. at 30 feet of boat , buck for buck why not have more space and be able to cruise at 22 knots. I mean why the hell stay around to roll around at 7 knots when the nimble boat will get up and have some fun. Yet troll for salmon all day long when you want.

What I found having just come from a 28' plaining hull cabin cruiser is something I'll call "slow speed wander". Without a keel a planing hull boat tends to wander requiring much more helm correction than a boat with a keel.

 

[OFB]

What I found having just come from a 28' plaining hull cabin cruiser is something I'll call "slow speed wander". Without a keel a planing hull boat tends to wander requiring much more helm correction than a boat with a keel.

Some will have that characteristic but the Commander is very much hard chined for not just stability but also tracking. They track very nice at trolling speed yet carve a nice turn at 20 plus knots. Different drive as well with the directional thrust of an outdrive verses the full keel / rudder. Different handeling abilities for sure. Outdrive can be nice for docking with directional thrust both in forward and reverse.

Deep V boats like a Double Eagle or Hourston and Commander track very nice. Unlike some of the direct drive Chris Crafts or Carvers etc.

 

[psneeld]

Thanks for all the suggestions, everyone. I'm familiar with and like the Commander, but we are more interested in a single screw semidisplacement for a number of reasons. The Ellis looks nice, HopCar, but we really like the interior layout and flybridge on the Camano. I think an Ellis 32 may fit the bill, but none on the East Coast for sale and it looks it like it would be above our self-imposed spending limit. Ranger Tug is a bit narrow, and the Nordic 32, which we also like, lacks the flybridge (we love driving outside when weather permits) and is also right at 35 ft loa with the swim platform and anchor. That means we couldn't put it in a 35ft. slip, which is important to us to be able to stay at our current marina. We've given the Nordic a hard look and think it is a great boat, but right now it just doesn't fit our style of boating. Again, I want to thank everyone for coming in with ideas - as we all know, buying a boat is a big purchase and we want to make sure we have not missed any option.

If sold on the Camano looks and layout...buy one.

But from the reports even in this thread...not sure where it stands as a semi-displacement hull. To me a medium powered displacement hull will run at 14-20 knots in it's economical cruise range..

There's a bunch of hyperbole often discussed about hull shape and whether it's semi or full displacement...just a bunch of wanna-bees discussing a book/article or two they read. What matters is what the boat you want does or doesn't do bsed on real life numbers....not just what some poster "thinks" it should or shouldn't do.

Me...if you want speed above 15 knots in a cruising boat...probably hard to beat a lobsteryacht type hull with an economical power plant suited for the speed you want...sure it may have less interior space...but are ya gonna do any foul weather cruising anyway? If speed is important...tere are tons of cruisers out there that will give respectable numbers...you just have to pick what you like...but pound for pound...I recommend lobsteryacht.

If you can live with less than 15 knots...the a whole new set of "fast trawlers" that may make you happy. There are lots of "custom" boats if you search but at some point...if you are happy with less than 15 knots...then are you really more concerned with ultimate fuel costs? Because if it's not fuel burn...there are hundreds of models out there that will get up and go and still not kill you with fuel costs if you run them in the displacement mode.

Again..if you fell in love with a boat...buy it...nothing else may make you happy... but to narrow it down on what you have posted so far makes me think you haven't heard all the options just quite yet...

 

[Nomad Willy]

There are many new boats that look like the old trawlers such as the GBs but are much lighter and faster. The Camano is such a boat. Looks as heavy and slow as a Nordic Tug but planes much like a Fathom 40. The Camano is definitely a beautiful boat and I've lusted after them myself but they aren't in the same category as a Nordic Tug or Ellis. For a trawler the Camano is very shallow and quite flat and of course w it's light displacement ... very efficient. I was very amazed at how efficient the Camano 41 is. I saw some numbers that made me think "what am I doing w a full disp boat when a 40 footer can do that". And of course shallow draft has big advantages in some areas. I think they were an instant hit because of their good looks and speed. And they should continue to sell well for the same reasons.

 

[Carolena]

psneeld: All very good advice. Having grown up in New England and spent my fair share of time on working lobster boats, I'm very familiar with the style, and really like them for what they can do. I've also looked a quite a few lobster style boats, from Duffy to Beal to Eastern and a lot in-between. Even considered the Mainship Pilot that sort of follows the style. I really love the Back Cove boats, but they are way outside our price range (we have a beautiful one at our marina). The one drawback from my perspective is the tighter interior space and lack of flybridge on just about all of them. And, yes, I do see us cruising in foul weather - not gales, but I don't want to be tied up due to rain during a one week vacation trip. At this point, I think we are sold on the Camano, but I don't want to rule anything out. That is exactly why I posted here. As for real life performance, Ron was nice enough to spend a fair amount of time discussing his experience with the boat with me over the phone, which reinforced what the admiral and I have been thinking re the Camano for our specific wants. Fuel burn isn't our only issue, but it is something we want to keep reasonable, and the Camano certainly does that.

manyboats: I really, really like the Camano 41, and even more so what Bracewell has done with it since buying the molds. It has a great layout and the performance to efficiency is simply amazing. Maybe if we hit the lotto someday . . .

Once again, thanks to everyone for all the advice and great information. You have built a great community on this site!

 

[Steve]

I bought a 2 year old Camano 31 Hull #270, in 2004 and used her a lot till 2008 when We decided we wanted something bigger. I don't think you can find a better built boat. Easilty handled I did a lot of solo fishing trips in her. Many pro features, NO TEAK! as noted the flyingbridge is huge for a boat that size. lots of space in the engine compartment, the ability to go fast if you want (doing that will hit your wallet) and others. We used to carry a 9' dinghy on the swim platform.
My wife is a non swimmer so she didn't like the side deck access to the bow, Of course the vee berth is a bit cramped but we have friends, he 6'2 she 6', who did the loop in theirs several years ago.
A friend in Mobile has a pristine 2005 he is selling, if you like his details PM me.
Interestingly when I sold my boat it was to a fellow in Sweden who bought it and shipped it over on a freighter.
Good luck!
Steve W

 

[Sailor of Fortune]

I would exclude the Commander because of the outdrive propulsion, if that is the only drive offered. As a former Seatow licensee (owner), outdrives are a significant source of revenue.
I do like the use of space in the commander.