Fletcher500
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Such clever commentary.
Can I get back in?
- Thread starter Russell Clifton
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rsn48
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So I thought I'd provide some sad humorous commentary on the Canadian side of policing and security on the BC coastal waters. First off most Americans assume the Canadian Coast Guard is the same as the American ones, nothing could be further from the truth. I will quote from Waggoner 2018, these Americans got it right, page 62:
"On the Canadian side of the border, [the] Canadian Coast Guard does not have maritime or law enforcement responsibilities and does not perform vessel inspections. [The] Royal Canadian Mounted Police (RCMP) [also known as Mounties or Horsemen] and city police have law enforcement responsibilities. RCMP does not routinely board vessels for marine safety inspections. [Translation: pretty much no one does]"
So loosely interpreted, you are more likely to be visited my an extraterrestrial than investigated by the police on the water. Say hi to ET for me.
So I copied a report below but I could find no date. It is a report on marine security, there is one part I can promise you you'll find humorous. Aside from the humour, you might find asking yourself "what security?"
CHAPTER FOUR:
The Need to Improve Canada’s
INTERDICTION CAPABILITY in its Coastal Waters
Who defends our coasts?
The Committee concluded that it isn’t the Canadian Navy. The Navy appears to be primarily a “blue water” fleet, mandated to fight Canada’s battles away from Canada’s shores.
The Navy does own a fleet of what are known as maritime coastal defence vessels (MCDVs), but their primary use is training naval reserves. As Vice-Admiral Ronald Buck, Chief of Maritime Staff pointed out, the navy sees its role in coastal defence as largely one of surveillance.
Does the Canadian Coast Guard defend our coasts? Not really. Neither our Coast Guard vessels nor the personnel on board are armed. Most Canadians probably assume that their Coast Guard is out there protecting our coasts in the manner of the U.S. Coast Guard (often called the third-largest Navy in the world). Not so.
The Canadian Coast Guard, like the Canadian Navy, sees its security role as supportive – an extra chore thrown on top of its more clearly defined roles of search and rescue, ice-breaking, charting navigable waters, setting out buoys, checking for fisheries and pollution violations, checking for vessel safety, etc.
The Canadian Coast Guard comes under the jurisdiction of Fisheries and Oceans Canada. Coast Guard vessels do, upon request, conduct security surveillance and will carry officers from Customs, Immigration, the RCMP, Fisheries and Transport Canada on possible interdiction missions, but this is a tertiary responsibility. The Coast Guard is not funded to perform this role in a regular way.
During the so called Turbot War of 1995, 50 calibre guns were mounted on two Coast Guard vessels and Coast Guard personnel were given some basic training and sent out to the 200 mile limit to interdict a Spanish fishing vessel. Did Coast Guard personnel enjoy playing a constabulary role in this confrontation? Not according to the testimony of John Adams, Coast Guard Commissioner: “It scared the living daylights out of the Coast Guard. I think they fired on them once over the bow, but I am not sure. They could not get the guns off the boats fast enough.”
The Committee was told by more than one witness that it might take decades to change the Canadian Coast Guard’s culture from one of ship hands going about their various observatory and regulatory functions to a Coast Guard with a more constabulary role.
The Committee stated earlier in this report that we believe it is essential that Canada, a country of limited military capacity, find ways of squeezing the maximum out of the resources it does possess in the interest of countering all types of illicit behaviour on our coasts, particularly terrorism-oriented.
This isn’t happening. Canada has a number of agencies playing a variety of supportive roles such as surveillance and ferrying, for the most part but it is largely left to the RCMP to provide the teeth in times of emergency.
The RCMP, of course, has a multitude of other duties, most of them on land. RCMP officers play a useful role on our coastal waters, as they do on land, but coastal patrol is not the focus of the RCMP. The agency’s capacity to interdict on the Great Lakes, is almost non-existent, for example, in terms of armed boarding of ships: “We do not have the resources, equipment or training in the central region as opposed to either coast,” acknowledges Supt. Ken Hansen of the RCMP’s federal services directorate.
The RCMP’s capacity to interdict vessels on Canada’s east coast is not what anyone would describe as muscular. In Nova Scotia, for example, Chief Superintendent Ian Atkins, of the Criminal Operations Branch, Province of Nova Scotia, Royal Canadian Mounted Police, told the Committee that the RCMP has exactly 13 officers dedicated specifically to the coast of Nova Scotia, backed up as required by 32 other officers who are emergency response trained for armed boarding of ships. Chief Supt. Atkins described the RCMP’s watch over the coasts that it is mandated to police as essentially volunteer-based, with RCMP officers sent out to encourage the public to recognize and report unusual behaviour. In his words:
“The RCMP has 13 resources dedicated to marine security. This is leveraged by additional resources from partner agencies, Halifax Regional Police, Canada Customs and National Defence. The coastal policing by the RCMP is essentially a volunteer-based coastal watch program. The RCMP has two full-time coordinators and utilize local RCMP detachment personnel to educate the public and help them to recognize and report unusual coastal occurrences.”
Asked whether the RCMP might be somewhat short-staffed to act as the “teeth” of Canada’s coastal security, Chief Supt. Atkins had to agree:
“We identified the impediments to marine security. One of the most significant is the lack of perhaps dedicated resources, as I said, 13 RCMP resources for a 7,400 kilometre coastline. We rely on the consent of the public to assist in the identification of unusual activities.”
"On the Canadian side of the border, [the] Canadian Coast Guard does not have maritime or law enforcement responsibilities and does not perform vessel inspections. [The] Royal Canadian Mounted Police (RCMP) [also known as Mounties or Horsemen] and city police have law enforcement responsibilities. RCMP does not routinely board vessels for marine safety inspections. [Translation: pretty much no one does]"
So loosely interpreted, you are more likely to be visited my an extraterrestrial than investigated by the police on the water. Say hi to ET for me.
So I copied a report below but I could find no date. It is a report on marine security, there is one part I can promise you you'll find humorous. Aside from the humour, you might find asking yourself "what security?"
CHAPTER FOUR:
The Need to Improve Canada’s
INTERDICTION CAPABILITY in its Coastal Waters
Who defends our coasts?
The Committee concluded that it isn’t the Canadian Navy. The Navy appears to be primarily a “blue water” fleet, mandated to fight Canada’s battles away from Canada’s shores.
The Navy does own a fleet of what are known as maritime coastal defence vessels (MCDVs), but their primary use is training naval reserves. As Vice-Admiral Ronald Buck, Chief of Maritime Staff pointed out, the navy sees its role in coastal defence as largely one of surveillance.
Does the Canadian Coast Guard defend our coasts? Not really. Neither our Coast Guard vessels nor the personnel on board are armed. Most Canadians probably assume that their Coast Guard is out there protecting our coasts in the manner of the U.S. Coast Guard (often called the third-largest Navy in the world). Not so.
The Canadian Coast Guard, like the Canadian Navy, sees its security role as supportive – an extra chore thrown on top of its more clearly defined roles of search and rescue, ice-breaking, charting navigable waters, setting out buoys, checking for fisheries and pollution violations, checking for vessel safety, etc.
The Canadian Coast Guard comes under the jurisdiction of Fisheries and Oceans Canada. Coast Guard vessels do, upon request, conduct security surveillance and will carry officers from Customs, Immigration, the RCMP, Fisheries and Transport Canada on possible interdiction missions, but this is a tertiary responsibility. The Coast Guard is not funded to perform this role in a regular way.
During the so called Turbot War of 1995, 50 calibre guns were mounted on two Coast Guard vessels and Coast Guard personnel were given some basic training and sent out to the 200 mile limit to interdict a Spanish fishing vessel. Did Coast Guard personnel enjoy playing a constabulary role in this confrontation? Not according to the testimony of John Adams, Coast Guard Commissioner: “It scared the living daylights out of the Coast Guard. I think they fired on them once over the bow, but I am not sure. They could not get the guns off the boats fast enough.”
The Committee was told by more than one witness that it might take decades to change the Canadian Coast Guard’s culture from one of ship hands going about their various observatory and regulatory functions to a Coast Guard with a more constabulary role.
The Committee stated earlier in this report that we believe it is essential that Canada, a country of limited military capacity, find ways of squeezing the maximum out of the resources it does possess in the interest of countering all types of illicit behaviour on our coasts, particularly terrorism-oriented.
This isn’t happening. Canada has a number of agencies playing a variety of supportive roles such as surveillance and ferrying, for the most part but it is largely left to the RCMP to provide the teeth in times of emergency.
The RCMP, of course, has a multitude of other duties, most of them on land. RCMP officers play a useful role on our coastal waters, as they do on land, but coastal patrol is not the focus of the RCMP. The agency’s capacity to interdict on the Great Lakes, is almost non-existent, for example, in terms of armed boarding of ships: “We do not have the resources, equipment or training in the central region as opposed to either coast,” acknowledges Supt. Ken Hansen of the RCMP’s federal services directorate.
The RCMP’s capacity to interdict vessels on Canada’s east coast is not what anyone would describe as muscular. In Nova Scotia, for example, Chief Superintendent Ian Atkins, of the Criminal Operations Branch, Province of Nova Scotia, Royal Canadian Mounted Police, told the Committee that the RCMP has exactly 13 officers dedicated specifically to the coast of Nova Scotia, backed up as required by 32 other officers who are emergency response trained for armed boarding of ships. Chief Supt. Atkins described the RCMP’s watch over the coasts that it is mandated to police as essentially volunteer-based, with RCMP officers sent out to encourage the public to recognize and report unusual behaviour. In his words:
“The RCMP has 13 resources dedicated to marine security. This is leveraged by additional resources from partner agencies, Halifax Regional Police, Canada Customs and National Defence. The coastal policing by the RCMP is essentially a volunteer-based coastal watch program. The RCMP has two full-time coordinators and utilize local RCMP detachment personnel to educate the public and help them to recognize and report unusual coastal occurrences.”
Asked whether the RCMP might be somewhat short-staffed to act as the “teeth” of Canada’s coastal security, Chief Supt. Atkins had to agree:
“We identified the impediments to marine security. One of the most significant is the lack of perhaps dedicated resources, as I said, 13 RCMP resources for a 7,400 kilometre coastline. We rely on the consent of the public to assist in the identification of unusual activities.”
I would guess a US citizen contracting COVID19 while visiting Canada would not be an emergency in the eyes of the insurer.
Obvious out; you willingly put yourself at risk.
I think a substantial threat to all of us are those, like some in this thread, who go pffft...I'll go and do what I want.
Fletcher500
Guru
I am definitely not someone who is in the "I will do whatever I want camp, and this is an exaggerated hoax" as was originally broadcast through a particular state run TV channel recently. I actually think the situation has become quite serious. I have a son in NYC, and a daughter in downtown SF. I just got off the phone with both of them telling them to stay diligent, keep your hands clean, and avoid groups of people when possible. I am doing the same. With that said, I am not hiding under the bed and trying to carry on with life as best I can.
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I work from home. My wife was laid the last week of January. We are not planning any international travel. We have stopped hand-shaking and unnecessary physical contact with anyone but absolute immediate friends and family. (that might change soon).
We're in the process of both selling our current house, buying a new house and moving 1,300 miles. We don't really have the time to go out into crowded public places.
We're in the process of both selling our current house, buying a new house and moving 1,300 miles. We don't really have the time to go out into crowded public places.
OP
OP
Russell Clifton
Guru
In reference to post 32:
The past couple of years the US Coast Guard in conjunction with Canadian officials have been stopping boats in Canadian waters and doing safety checks. The way I understand it the boat will have one Canadian official aboard and are checking Canadian boats. They are also looking for drug smugglers. This is happening a lot in the Victoria area. The Canadian fisherman seem to be quite intimated by the big guns on our US boats.
The past couple of years the US Coast Guard in conjunction with Canadian officials have been stopping boats in Canadian waters and doing safety checks. The way I understand it the boat will have one Canadian official aboard and are checking Canadian boats. They are also looking for drug smugglers. This is happening a lot in the Victoria area. The Canadian fisherman seem to be quite intimated by the big guns on our US boats.
OldDan1943
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Great. Intimate them and wont have to make it go bang.
StarChaser
Veteran Member
My local School district just closed for the next 2 weeks immediately followed by 2 weeks of spring break. Everything closed, Pre-K through College, Done, go home, stay home.
MurrayM
Guru
BC Health Officer and Minister of Health today announced all inessential travel outside Canada, including to the US, is strongly advised against. If Canadians do travel to the US (for a quart of milk or Disneyland according to the Minister of Health) you must self quarantine for 14 days.
No telling where this will go as numbers increase.
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T210DRVR
Senior Member
I’m not concerned about myself, but feel a responsibility to others not to spread the virus. I’m restricting travel to domestic and avoiding close personal contact. I think most people, myself included, would prefer to be at home if I’m sick. That meets no travel to places that I can’t get home by car. So, no trips to Hawaii or overseas destinations.
As far as trawler travel is concerned I would prefer to be domestic though I don’t see Canada as a big issue. However, travel up the inside passage involves being a bit remote. Since incubation may take a week or more I’d consider my destinations carefully in case I needed medical care.
This whole situation has a very disconcerting feel right now so I’d wait a bit to see how things progress over the next few weeks. It doesn’t sound like a bad time to take a local cruise to the local Channel Islands.
As far as trawler travel is concerned I would prefer to be domestic though I don’t see Canada as a big issue. However, travel up the inside passage involves being a bit remote. Since incubation may take a week or more I’d consider my destinations carefully in case I needed medical care.
This whole situation has a very disconcerting feel right now so I’d wait a bit to see how things progress over the next few weeks. It doesn’t sound like a bad time to take a local cruise to the local Channel Islands.
Fletcher500
Guru
I’m with ya. I was planning on heading up to Santa Cruz Island next week. It would be nice to sit out there in peace, swim with the fish, and avoid the news for awhile. Had to shut the trip down as of today in case my kids need to come home. Now I can sit around the house more and watch the stock market fall off a cliff. Crazy times.
Portage_Bay
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Murray, I have a planned road trip this weekend. Washington state to Duncan. Have you heard anything about Wa State residents being restricted entry to BC?
I can't seem to find current info. Just to let you know I'm coming from Whidbey Island not Seattle or Kirkland the hot spots.
MurrayM
Guru
No I haven't. Things will be changing fast, especially when the numbers start to climb drastically.
MurrayM
Guru
News story on BC travel advisory:
https://vancouverisland.ctvnews.ca/...a-ban-events-larger-than-250-people-1.4850903
https://vancouverisland.ctvnews.ca/...a-ban-events-larger-than-250-people-1.4850903
OldDan1943
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My beautiful house mouse returned to Vietnam for a 2 month family visit. If she cannot get back into the US, I am glad I live on a boat. She can never find me to chew every part of my body and I dont mean that in a good way.
IRENE
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I think (but do not know) that if you are a U.S. citizen, you will be admitted to the U.S. upon return, I will be checking with CBP before (if) we make our annual BC pilgrimage this summer. Unfortunately this will be a dynamic situation - today’s answer may be useless in a few weeks.
Similarly, perhaps CBSA will deny us permission to visit...
Perhaps the San Juans will be REALLY crowded this year...
OldDan1943
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If things get really rough, we might leave our home port and find it difficult to be permitted entry in another US port. If that happens, it will get really messy.
We just might be tied up for the season.
We just might be tied up for the season.
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Portage_Bay
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Thank you. I'm watching and will make my decision tomorrow morning before driving to Tswwassen to board the ferry.
MurrayM
Guru
In typical bureaucratic fashion, the officials contradict themselves in the same paragraph:"...While government cannot force people to follow this rule, officials said they expect people to follow it "as part of their civic duty."
There is no "must quarantine" yet and if there were then logic says, anyone entering, including those from the US would face the same 14 day quarantine.
I'd rather see my neighbours kid laid off from the marina for lack of business, than get sick from US boaters, who might not even know they are carriers.
That may well have changed by the time anyone reads this.
Do tell how the US Coast Guard gets authority to stop and board a boat in Canadian waters.
Is this something you have experienced or is it an "I heard" thing?
Portage_Bay
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I was once boarded in US waters by a joint US / Canadian team. After all the questions and inspections wer finished I asked what the heck was going on. They said it was an international cooperation and that teams on both sides of the border had officers from both nations aboard. I later heard from other boaters, recreational and professional, they too had been boarded in US and Canadian waters. As far as I know it only happened near the international border. Which sort of makes sense otherwise an offending boater near the border could scoot across and be untouchable.
It is indeed strange to have USCG, US border patrol, RCMP and Canada border patrol aboard at the same time. Not a good feeling.
OP
OP
Russell Clifton
Guru
All the guys on the BC Sport Fishing Forum are talking about it. Many have been boardered by them. As I said, they have a Canadian official aboard. Probably more concerned about drug smugglers than safety violations.
hollywood8118
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this is typical bureaucratic over reach, if BC didn't have it yet I guess it could make sense.. but BC does have it. Life will go on for most. But if a person exercises caution expecting a 14 day self quarantine is ridiculous.
HOLLYWOOD
Rebel112r
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Was boarded Tuesday heading home, at the south end of Patos. Maintained heading, slowed to 6 knots. Two came aboard, checked a few things, filled out paper work and were gone, 20 minutes total. Checked bilges, holding tank y valve, horn, paperwork. Had a inspection sticker from 2019, which has helped in past. Maybe I am good now for 2020. Also there is an agreement between Can and US that allows them to stop on either side of line, forget what it is called though.
rsn48
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The past couple of years the US Coast Guard in conjunction with Canadian officials have been stopping boats in Canadian waters and doing safety checks. The way I understand it the boat will have one Canadian official aboard and are checking Canadian boats. They are also looking for drug smugglers. This is happening a lot in the Victoria area. The Canadian fisherman seem to be quite intimated by the big guns on our US boats
The inspections only happen at and close to the border as the article above stated. For some reasons, inexplicable to me, I've become interested in the Rum Running days of yore. The top boss of booze coming out of British Columbia was an ex-cop in Seattle, he made a fortune.
In the early days of rum running (note: many different cheap and expensive liquor was smuggled, not just rum), BC guys would legally purchase a ton of booze, we were not into prohibition, ours ended much earlier and we knew it would never work in the states. So the legal booze would be brought to just before the border and Washington guys would come and pick it up and deliver it. So no Canadian law was broken.
But eventually the Canadian guys realized if they delivered it instead of American guys, they made more money. Operations changed over time and the most well known vessel in BC, The Malahat became a large warehouse serving, smaller but still larger vessels. These smaller vessels would pick up the booze and take it into the statuary waters of the States and even smaller but faster boats (to beat the boats used by American authorities, not hard to do early on in the endeavour). These small boats, some of them, used a popular 12 cylinder aircraft engine which became redundant after WW1. For the times, these boats were very fast. My theory is these boats spawned the "cigarette boats" of today, their design and horsepower copied.
By the way, on the news just minutes ago, Trudeau says he is considering closing the border so your problem may not be an issue.
rgano
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My take is that current government restrictions are aimed at getting through the rest of the "sick season" for viruses, which are the cooler months, and into the summer season where they are not so virulent. That does not mean CV19 will die off during the summer or that it won't reemerge as the Spanish flu did in 1918, but I think that's where official actions are headed. Will re-entry restrictions be in place if the spread of the virus is reduced in warm weather? My guess is probably. About all we can hope for in the meanwhile is a vaccine in somewhat less than the several year norm for new vaccine development, and I have watched one pharma lab guy saying he could git-r-dun in maybe a year.
