can it be set up like a plane

[trawler nut]

correct me if I'm wrong and I'm wrong a lot just ask my wife. can you set a boat up like a plane as far a wiring goes? when a plane takes a lightning strike I'm pretty sure it doesn't lose it instrumentation. I seam to recall a 74ft Nordy called the Tortuga out of Ca. The owner was a former pilot and had his boat wired like a plane when it comes to lightning strikes. Can anyone put some input in this?

 

[menzies]

correct me if I'm wrong and I'm wrong a lot just ask my wife. can you set a boat up like a plane as far a wiring goes? when a plane takes a lightning strike I'm pretty sure it doesn't lose it instrumentation. I seam to recall a 74ft Nordy called the Tortuga out of Ca. The owner was a former pilot and had his boat wired like a plane when it comes to lightning strikes. Can anyone put some input in this?

How do you ground a plane in flight?

 

[GoneFarrell]

How do you ground a plane in flight?

With a ground plane.

 

[menzies]

With a ground plane.

Then it wouldn't be in flight would it?

 

[GoneFarrell]

Actually, the fuselage, wings and so on act as a Faraday cage. There is low electrical field in a Faraday cage. That helps a lot. Ends of the wing and tail can have features to bleed off accumulated charge. I've seen 'em glow blue when near electrical storms.

Best info I see on this subject is in sailboat world, those guys float around with a giant lightening rod on their boat.

 

[oscar]

Actually, the fuselage, wings and so on act as a Faraday cage. There is low electrical field in a Faraday cage. That helps a lot. Ends of the wing and tail can have features to bleed off accumulated charge. I've seen 'em glow blue when near electrical storms.

Best info I see on this subject is in sailboat world, those guys float around with a giant lightening rod on their boat.

The features on the end of airfoils you are speaking of are "Static Wicks"

The "lightning rod" on a sailboat is a statistical fallacy. Do some Googling.

I've had lightning hit my airplane on the skin, about a foot from where my knee was on the inside. Sounded like someone fired a gun next to my ear. Got my attention.....

 

[psneeld]

Had a friend who flew USCG Falcon Jets.....he took 2 strikes back to back and lost systems. So I doubt anything is guaranteed from a direct strike.

My reading says the EMP of even a close strike can cause voltage spikes in all I st any run of wire.....so..... without disconnecting or placing surge protectors in every circuit and even then, internally in the equipment.....good luck. Alternative is disconnecting and everything in a Faraday cage is the best alternative I have heard.

What I do is let statistics protect me.....and decent insurance with less expensive electronics.

As far as sailboat masts...myth. My experience is they are no more hit than anything else. At my marina the summer, lightning threaded through a forest of sailboat masts to hit a powerboat and set it on fire. Have seen many similar situations also with trees, antennas, tall buildings, etc....

My understanding .....its all about potential and path of least resistance.

 

[O C Diver]

I know for a fact that sailboats will tall masts are lightning arrestors and protect my boat in the marina or if I'm in close proximity when cruising. Atleast that's what I keep telling myself in lightning storms.

Ted

 

[psneeld]

I know for a fact that sailboats will tall masts are lightning arrestors and protect my boat in the marina or if I'm in close proximity when cruising. Atleast that's what I keep telling myself in lightning storms.

Ted

Ted...sorry can refuse this one.....

Lightning won't hit your boat because it gets close, sees its reflection and gets scared away....

 

[twistedtree]

I'm far from an expert on lightening, but do know a fair amount about electricity in general...


I think the big difference between a boat and plane is that the boat is grounded where the plane is not. Lightening is electrical charge seeking a path from the charge source (the sky) to ground. As psneeld said, it will follow the paths of least resistance. This path can include your boat, because you boat has a good ground connection via the water. When that happens, there is a massive amount of energy passing through your boat to the water, via every path it can find.



I would venture that planes aren't "struck" by lightening the way a boat can be, all because the plane isn't grounded. There is no preferred electrical path through the plane the way there is through a boat. So I would think that planes are more in proximity of lightening strikes, and not so much directly in the circuit of a strike.


Now of course this is all statistical, with no hard rules. In the end, there are infinite electrical paths from the charge in the sky to the surface of the ground. What paths the spark ultimately takes depends on the make up of the atmosphere, shape and contour of the ground surface, and material makeup of the ground surface, etc.

 

[psneeld]

I think planes are like your body in an electric shock drowning in fresh water.


The reason the current passes through the body is because of its saltier composition... thus less resistance.


Both an airborne direct strike or electric shock drowning requires some amount of proximity to the origin and where it was headed (usually the closest or strongest potential.


As far as damage from a lightning bolt EMP.... that is not something I have read a lot about...just pieces that say protecting electronics is WAY more than just how one rigs a boat or plane.

 

[boatpoker]

As psneeld said, it will follow the paths of least resistance.

This contradicts my training.

https://www.ecmweb.com/content/arti...ailable — in,the path's voltage and impedance.

 

[psneeld]

While I get the article...at some point where circuits are not well defined, not sure how that applies.

They are lightning bolts, not massive area discharges....

 

[twistedtree]

I think planes are like your body in an electric shock drowning in fresh water.


The reason the current passes through the body is because of its saltier composition... thus less resistance.


Both an airborne direct strike or electric shock drowning requires some amount of proximity to the origin and where it was headed (usually the closest or strongest potential.


As far as damage from a lightning bolt EMP.... that is not something I have read a lot about...just pieces that say protecting electronics is WAY more than just how one rigs a boat or plane.

This makes sense to me.

 

[boatpoker]

While I get the article...at some point where circuits are not well defined, not sure how that applies.

They are lightning bolts, not massive area discharges....

Path of least resistance to me would suggest down a sailboat mast and out through the keel. This is not what I have seen. Path of least resistance cannot be reconciled with side flashes that produce hundreds of thousands of pinholes over an entire fiberglass hull nor can it be reconciled with hitting a 20' powerboat tied up 10' away fron a 60' mast that was untouched.

I've taken courses from a couple of well known lightning "experts".
Bottom line ... I don't believe there are any "lightning experts" when it comes to boats.

 

[twistedtree]

This contradicts my training.

https://www.ecmweb.com/content/arti...ailable — in,the path's voltage and impedance.

I agree and think we are actually saying the same thing. I said "paths", plural.

 

[twistedtree]

Path of least resistance to me would suggest down a sailboat mast and out through the keel. This is not what I have seen. Path of least resistance cannot be reconciled with side flashes that produce hundreds of thousands of pinholes over an entire fiberglass hull nor can it be reconciled with hitting a 20' powerboat tied up 10' away fron a 60' mast that was untouched.

I've taken courses from a couple of well known lightning "experts".
Bottom line ... I don't believe there are any "lightning experts" when it comes to boats.

There are ultimately infinite paths, and the paths (plural) that form the lightening bolt are clustered together which gives the defined bolt, but on a closer look you have current paths that go all over the place, creating seemingly random damage.

 

[Portage_Bay]

Does lightning strike from the ground up?

I've heard that lightning strikes from the ground up. So, a bit of Googling turns this up:

Why does lightning strike from the ground-up?

The enlightening image below is of a lightning strike slowed down at 10,000 frames per second. It can be seen that the most intense flash produced from the lightening occurs in the direction from the ground up.

Not a definitive answer but interesting. Having been caught in a lightning storm on the water I don't care which way it goes, up or down, I want to be somewhere else.

 

[psneeld]

As far as not hitting sailboats versus a low lying power boat...

My understanding as potential ir determined by the charges built up in moving clouds and over ground with varying states of charge.

When the right potential develops, a a path of resistance ( not necessarily least) is available a bolt happens. It needs the potential to be great enough AND a path....which isn't always near the sailboat.

Sounds like sitting hairs....but thats the best I have understood it.

 

[Mako]

I seam to recall a 74ft Nordy called the Tortuga out of Ca. The owner was a former pilot and had his boat wired like a plane when it comes to lightning strikes.

It would be interesting if you could reach out to Mr. Torguga or to Nordhavn and find out exactly what "wired like a plane" means

 

[twistedtree]

As far as not hitting sailboats versus a low lying power boat...

My understanding as potential ir determined by the charges built up in moving clouds and over ground with varying states of charge.

When the right potential develops, a a path of resistance ( not necessarily least) is available a bolt happens. It needs the potential to be great enough AND a path....which isn't always near the sailboat.

Sounds like sitting hairs....but thats the best I have understood it.

This is a good way to look at it, and I would add one refinement. The bolt happens when the developed potential overcomes the path resistance. And current will definitely flow through the least resistance path. It just won't be limited to that path since the potential can exceed the resistance of many paths at the same time.

 

[Shrew]

Google has a number of solutions:

https://www.google.com/search?q=pro...9i57j33l2.17179j1j15&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

 

[tpbrady]

https://www.compositesworld.com/art...-protection-strategies-for-composite-aircraft

I remember a similar article about Boeing’s design of the 787. While aircraft designers are required to consider lightning in their design, boat designers may not consider it, making analysis of lightning strikes on fiberglass boats complicated.

Tom

 

[OldDan1943]

The SSB radio on my N46 went to exterior ground plate. I dont know if today's SSB require a ground plate.
If you are concerned about the future, next time you haul the boat, have a ground plate installed. Then when you wish, put a lightening rod and heavy copper bare wire down to the ground plate on the highest point of your boat and hope the lightening finds the designated lightening rod.
It has been said, true or not, if you are in a lighten storm, put a hand held VHR in your oven, for protection. (Not the time to be baking a cake or cookies)

 

[oscar]

I would venture that planes aren't "struck" by lightening the way a boat can be, all because the plane isn't grounded. There is no preferred electrical path through the plane the way there is through a boat. So I would think that planes are more in proximity of lightening strikes, and not so much directly in the circuit of a strike.

Nope. The action is at 2:45

 

[DDW]

You can't think about a lightening strike as you would a 12V DC circuit. It is a chaotic event with extremely high field strengths, ionized air, negative resistance plasma columns, unbelievable current densities. A Faraday cage only works when the skin depth and resistance are small relative to the radiation, and that isn't happening inside a tin can with a lightening strike. "The path of least resistance" is wholly inadequate to describe what happens.

Here is a study of a fiberglass glider, struck by lightening in flight. They found that the majority of the energy flowed through the metal control rods from wing tip to wing tip, the nearly instantaneous heating inside the wing blew the fiberglass skins off. The magnetic forces generated by the currents while the rods were in a molten state twisted them into pretzels.

Wood is not immune either. A few years ago I watched as lightening hit a 60 year old oak tree next to my house. The 4' diameter trunk exploded, sounding like a bomb. I found pieces of bark 200' away.

 

[Seevee]

Yes, you can wire your boat like a plane. Just add some static wicks on your "wings".



I've got a box of spare static wicks in my hangar, and have often thought about just putting one or two on the boat, but doubt it would make a bit of difference. With a good ground, the wick probably wouldn't protect a thing.


Now, fortunately strikes are rare, both in planes and boats. I've never been stuck in a boat and have been thru numerous thunderstorms, even on my windsurfer (yes, I lowered the mast and just hung on). I've been struck in a plane a few times, and occasionally some damage to the radome or wing tip, but small. There have been worse strikes.



Personally, in a boat, I'd do whatever necessary to save "me".

 

[twistedtree]

Nope. The action is at 2:45

Impressive indeed. I think psneeld's description most likely describes it as being like a person in a body of water subjected to an electric field. Over the length of the person or plane, they/it is a preferred current path.

 

[FF]

Aircraft can also suffer from ST Elmos Fire , mostly in snow storms.

 

[psneeld]

Cool stuff St Elmo's fire......

Its my understanding that static wicks are to release the static buildup on aircraft so discharges are more continuous and from them rather than antennas and such to help with comms. They help prevent St Elmos fire but I don't think they are much help against lightning.