Cheap LED's a fire hazard?

[ssobol]

Greetings,
Mr. S. I was in FLL at the time and really didn't have a mailing/delivery address so I went to a retail outlet. https://www.apollolighting.com/
NOT cheap but I got a roll (can't remember length) of self adhesive LED strip (I think I had a choice of temperatures) and enough end connectors to do...Aw SNAP. Can't remember anything other than these are the people I bought from. Very nice people to deal with.

But how do you know that the Apollo lights aren't cheap Chinese LEDS costing pennies just put in a nice package with a very high mark up? My guess is that most (all?) of the Apollo lights are made in China.

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Mr. ss. "...aren't cheap Chinese LEDS costing pennies just put in a nice package..." I don't. I can't comment on the fixtures Apollo stocks I didn't bother to inspect any of them but from their website "...we only use top-of-the-line built in the USA fixtures, that are beautiful, durable and built to last a lifetime."



I am not aboard currently but this is most probably what I bought: https://www.apollolighting.com/mega-led-strip-cool-white-360-lumens/


Quite satisfied with the purchase and the service. I'll go back.

 

[BruceK]

Greetings...I got a roll (can't remember length) of self adhesive LED strip (I think I had a choice of temperatures)....

A choice of temperatures? I`m thinking :
1. Mild scorching.
2. Overt smoke (Lucas standard).
3. Full thickness burn.

 

[Mako]

I would recommend buying a very small batch of lights from the new source and testing them for a long period, before buying the entire boat load of 40-50 lights.

My villa here is unfortunately lit with the cheap versions of Chinese LEDs. The LED diodes are fine but the small capacitors or other components inside the unit keep blowing out. Over the last year I have replaced more than two dozen bulbs with the older, but reliable, fluorescent bulbs.

To followup, and as JLD commented "The difficulty for the consumer is that we often have no way to even guess the quality of product that has been made overseas" so unless you go with a name brand (eg. Hella Marine) then you need to test a batch.

Coincidentally another LED blew this morning. I just replaced it. You can see from the photos that it's always one of the capacitors that literally blows up. Some of my bulbs have been black and melted. No fire yet, but that could be a risk based on what I've seen with these cheap Chinese bulbs, so if the OP has a wood or fiberglass boat, or combustibles within a few inches of his bulbs, then he needs to consider this.

My conclusion is that even though I'm a big proponent of using domestic items in a boat, I would NOT use domestic LED bulbs on a 110/230v circuit. LEDs are native at 12/24VDC anyway, so it's a huge waste of electric during the double conversion process.

 

[boomerang]

To followup, and as JLD commented "The difficulty for the consumer is that we often have no way to even guess the quality of product that has been made overseas" so unless you go with a name brand (eg. Hella Marine) then you need to test a batch.

Coincidentally another LED blew this morning. I just replaced it. You can see from the photos that it's always one of the capacitors that literally blows up. Some of my bulbs have been black and melted. No fire yet, but that could be a risk based on what I've seen with these cheap Chinese bulbs, so if the OP has a wood or fiberglass boat, or combustibles within a few inches of his bulbs, then he needs to consider this.

My conclusion is that even though I'm a big proponent of using domestic items in a boat, I would NOT use domestic LED bulbs on a 110/230v circuit. LEDs are native at 12/24VDC anyway, so it's a huge waste of electric during the double conversion process.

Yep, that capacitor it toast! I never really gave any thought to an AC LED. Good info ,thanks.
All of my DC lights are breaker-protected with and then *most* of the individual branches are separately protected by a fuse behind the breaker. I doubt I'll ever go to the extreme of protecting each fixture. I have to wonder how much amperage it takes for each tiny individual LED on a bulb to self-destruct & since it's so small if it would generate enough heat to blow even a small fuse & actually ignite something before it burns out. I'm not looking to be the guinea pig,though!

Also, thread drift here,MakoBuilders, but one of my sons will be deploying to your city in a couple of weeks...say hello to him!

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Mr. BK. I don't know why but the light "color" is measured in degrees K (I think). They seem to operate with little temperature rise (degrees F/C)

 

[Mako]

Shawn I don't think the individual LEDs are an issue, but those capacitors really are (BTW a second one just blew). So if each light is drawing about 1 amp (at 12VDC) then certainly you're right not to try to individually protect each with a fuse. Seems like a waste of wiring and even fuse holders.

So your son will be stationed at Al Udeid? Good luck to him. Hope he doesn't die of boredom.

 

[caltexflanc]

While this is true, one thing that often gets overlooked is quality control during manufacturing. There are some very high quality products made in China, some real crap, and a lot of products in-between.

Many products are contract manufactured in small factories for small U.S. companies. In these cases, quite often, the U.S. buyers may seldom have a presence in the Chinese factory. In these situations it should be of no surprise that poor quality product is often delivered.

The difficulty for the consumer is that we often have no way to even guess the quality of product that has been made overseas.


Jim

All quite true. I have a friend who built a great business providing QC for US companies over there. It is essential. Which includes among many other things:

• First make sure they conform with the bill of materials
• Then make sure the drawings and specs they use match what was agreed to.
• Then make sure they actually build it that way, and properly
• Which includes actually using the components in the BOM
• Then make sure it is branded properly and put in the right box
• Then make sure that box goes in the right container, and that container gets to the port and put on the right ship.

It 's got a lot better in recent years, and there are some top flight fabricators, but it is still essential.

 

[Ka_sea_ta]

To followup, and as JLD commented "The difficulty for the consumer is that we often have no way to even guess the quality of product that has been made overseas" so unless you go with a name brand (eg. Hella Marine) then you need to test a batch.

Coincidentally another LED blew this morning. I just replaced it. You can see from the photos that it's always one of the capacitors that literally blows up. Some of my bulbs have been black and melted. No fire yet, but that could be a risk based on what I've seen with these cheap Chinese bulbs, so if the OP has a wood or fiberglass boat, or combustibles within a few inches of his bulbs, then he needs to consider this.

My conclusion is that even though I'm a big proponent of using domestic items in a boat, I would NOT use domestic LED bulbs on a 110/230v circuit. LEDs are native at 12/24VDC anyway, so it's a huge waste of electric during the double conversion process.

Isn't the standard AC voltage 240/ 50hz in Qatar? Those caps are living on the ragged edge if thats the case

 

[Mako]

Isn't the standard AC voltage 240/ 50hz in Qatar? Those caps are living on the ragged edge if thats the case

Actually you've got a good point. Our measured voltage is 250V but fluctuates from 249-256V. That capacitor has a 250V rating and obviously it is pushing the limits at that.

Wonder why our voltage is so high... maybe it's the Saudis screwing with us!

 

[diver dave]

Ahhhh, those electrolytic caps are not ever going across ac mains. Even in a designed in hurry shop.

 

[ssobol]

To followup, and as JLD... LEDs are native at 12/24VDC anyway, so it's a huge waste of electric during the double conversion process.

Actually LEDs are native at ~2-3.5 volts DC depending on the color. You have to reduce the 12/24VDC down to the proper voltage for the LED.

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
While I do not dispute the evidence of LED fires or potential for same, by importing directly from China (Amazon/e-bay) isn't one circumventing the testing bodies (ULC/CSA and the like)? I do NOT know if countries outside of NA have the same regulating bodies. If not, perhaps the more expensive units are worth the extra cost and might take the slightly higher voltages.



The bulb in post #34 does not appear to have any "certification". Seems like false economy to risk a potential fire to save a few $$. Just sayin'...

 

[diver dave]

Product regulation; The US, from a world-wide view, is about in the middle on regs on the books. We have tight food and drug regs, agriculture import regs, automotive safety and pollution reg, aircraft industry regs and probably some more that I don't have knowledge of. We also have a number of FCC/radio interference regs on the books. Including, notably here, Part 15 on "unintentional radiators". This is designed to protect our airways; Ie; radio communications. The US does NOT have serious, mandatory, product safety and shock prevention regs on the books, with toys being a notable exception. It's pretty much a free for all in the general market. UL is not a legal requirement. It is driven by insurance companies.


The 27 countries of the EU have far more advanced regs regarding many things, electronic and electrical things included.

China has poor regulatory rules on the books.

What we are now seeing in this country are very cheap electronic goods being imported from the East, with very difficult enforcement. It was much easier to enforce a container full of junk and reject the lot. Much different story to open a 8 oz package to an individual and inspect a million of these in a month. Many LED drivers, battery charge convertors, and cell phone chargers are being illegally imported, using the FCC part 15 as the metric. They simply don't pass our FCC specs. Most are so bold, they have no markings at all.

This may seem like a rant, but it is important to know that there is no higher authority keeping watch on imports.

 

[BruceK]

I can`t see Australia ever manufacturing LEDs, I don`t think we`ve made even a domestic light bulb in years, but USA ought be able to make its own LEDs.To an acceptable standard it could provide,and to hell with the troublesome imports.

 

[catalinajack]

I would recommend buying a very small batch of lights from the new source and testing them for a long period, before buying the entire boat load of 40-50 lights.

My villa here is unfortunately lit with the cheap versions of Chinese LEDs. The LED diodes are fine but the small capacitors or other components inside the unit keep blowing out. Over the last year I have replaced more than two dozen bulbs with the older, but reliable, fluorescent bulbs.

Marine Beam supplies high quality replacement LED "flourescent" tubes. Very bright. I replaced six four-footers in the three fixtures in my engine room after removing the ballasts one of which had melted from over heating.

 

[ssobol]

You have to be careful. There is a difference between "Made in the USA" and "Assembled in the USA". You might have a hard time finding LEDs actually made in the USA.

 

[Mako]

It's so nice the way technology has developed. My older "big" boat had those horrible 12v giant house-hold style bulbs. Had to buy replacements at West Marine and they were huge bucks. Dim yellow-ish light.

 

[Mako]

Actually LEDs are native at ~2-3.5 volts DC depending on the color. You have to reduce the 12/24VDC down to the proper voltage for the LED.

I stand corrected.

So basically if all LEDs have transformers/capacitors/PC boards inside, then going with 120/240 volt circuitry is fine. The key is to select quality and proven LEDs, which nowadays those can be sourced at Home Depot and prices are coming down in America I've noticed. Overseas the prices are already excellent as they are a couple of years ahead of America when it comes to energy conservation (bulbs, appliances, etc.).

 

[stevemitchell]

This is a simple tip: If a 12V LED does not say it can handle 10V - 30V, look elsewhere...

This is where I start every time I'm replacing lights with LED. If it doesn't say it can handle wider voltages, I run away.

I've used products from MarineBeam and LunaSea with very good results. Both have wide voltage acceptance, and in many cases, constant voltage chips as well to ensure the LEDs are always getting a consistent voltage. This not only prolongs the life of the LED, but make sure you don't get flickers or low/high light levels.

I have also used stuff from SuperBrightLEDs but you have to be careful which products and in what application. For strip LED lighting and controllers, they are my go-to source. For replacement bulbs, I would stay away as most of their stuff is the cheaper brands with narrower voltage acceptance and no constant voltage capabilities.

I just spent the last 2 weeks replacing every single light, fixture, and bulb on my new boat with LED, as I've done on many other boats. This one had so many more lights than normal, including some older red LED courtesy lighting from the 90's that drew 20 amps alone! Glad I've upgraded, and it is definitely a good idea to spend moderate money to ensure you don't have meltdowns!

 

[bgillroy]

Scandvik has come out with high bright engine space led fixtures that are simply fabulous. Installed 5 in engine space. Now I need sunglasses to work down there.