Concerns From Survey and Sea Trial of 2006 MS34T

[RossWilson]

Greetings,
Mr. RW. For the $$ you anticipate spending, the paint and canvas should be top notch IMO. You may be hard pressed to find a qualified person(s) to advise you on these items in Kingston. I have dealt with Quinte Canvas in the past and would NOT recommend their work. Over priced and shoddy IMO.



Another potential problem, if one can call it so, is the space in the ER with 2 engines. I looked up other MS 34's and even with one engine, there does not seem to be much room. Your call on that one.


I can tell from the tone of your posts that you are excited about this boat and she DOES show well (I looked her up) but this is NOT the time to be emotional IN ANY WAY! I advise TOTAL pragmatism. Tough to say but there ARE other boats out there. Both eyes open and patience, my friend.

Thanks RTF. In as much as I agree with everything you say, these fresh-water MS trawlers are quite rare here in Ontario and even Quebec. Aside from the subject, not one has been listed this year. And to buy a salt-water vessel in the USA with Cdn dollars doesn't make sense to me.


The ER is indeed crowded, made ore so with the recent installation of 2 very large Rolls Surrette batteries between the engines. Nevertheless, one can still move around everything, including to each side of each engine. The mechanic who has done almost all of the maintenance and upgrade work told me he'd have preferred to work there without the big batteries, but says he manages fine.


And you're absolutely correct that I must set emotions aside. I've actually advised former clients that for the best deal, you must be prepared to walk away from the negotiating table. But ...

 

[RossWilson]

The exhaust you're seeing doesn't sound out of line. Particularly for what is probably the first run of the season. The fact that is starting 'campering' in can occur with wind at your stern.

The paint sounds like an adhesion issue, which is the result of improper prep and application. Buffing the top won't impact it's adhesion to the hull.

White splotches could be repairs (it's a used boat, bumps happen). It could be where someone has used a cutting agent and buffed through the paint. (hard to tell without seeing it).

Canvas and isinglass require replacing every now and then. Maybe sunbrella doesn't shrink, but it sure seems like Isinglass does. Isinglass does tend to stretch a bit more in the heat. They are always tough to fit in the spring, particular in cool weather.

There isn't anything on this list that would have me concerned at all. I almost assume going into a used boat that I'm going to need to do some heavy compounding and buffing, replace canvas and isinglass, electronics, anchor and rhode, and scrutinize all pumps and hoses with anticipation of replacement.

Thanks, Shrew, for your comments. When I inspected this vessel in January when she was in heated storage, the hull had just been power buffed and waxed. And it looked wonderful with virtually no signs of damage or flaking. But when we returned to port after the sea trial yesterday, I noticed on the hull just aft of the bow what appeared to be 4-5 spots of white gelcoat showing where the paint had somehow been shed. That's the mystery for now. I don't mind small repairs and replacements, but the rather large expenditures associated with paint and canvas would be disturbing. Since it's rare to find one in Ontario, and because it's otherwise in top condition, I still prefer to buy this boat, but not at the price previously agreed.

 

[Comodave]

Get a knowledgeable painter and have them take a look at it and give an opinion. We just painted our whole boat last spring and it is a lot of work.

 

[BruceK]

Did the mechanical surveyor have any concerns about the insertion point for raw water injection into the exhaust? If not sufficiently away from the turbos, ie on the outbound side of the exhaust, there is a risk of standing salt water in the turbos. I rejected a boat with those engines,partly on that basis,on advice given on TF.

 

[RossWilson]

Get a knowledgeable painter and have them take a look at it and give an opinion. We just painted our whole boat last spring and it is a lot of work.

Thanks, Commodave. Good advice. No doubt that your boat looks great in her new coat.

 

[RossWilson]

Did the mechanical surveyor have any concerns about the insertion point for raw water injection into the exhaust? If not sufficiently away from the turbos, ie on the outbound side of the exhaust, there is a risk of standing salt water in the turbos. I rejected a boat with those engines,partly on that basis,on advice given on TF.

Thanks Bruce. No - he had no concerns. And this vessel will not see salt water during my tenure anyway.

 

[RossWilson]

Since I'm returning to the negotiation table to discuss deficiencies, including the canvas and hull paint, and how they should relate to the ultimate sale price, and since the stuffing boxes need replacement along with the seals on the rudder shafts, do any of you know what it would cost to have these professionally replaced? One of each is actively leaking. And no doubt, when one starts, the other is sure to follow.



Fortunately, the leaks are slow, so I'll not have to haul the boat this spring and lose part of the season. They can await the fall haul.



And since the seller has agreed that all equipment will be in good operating order upon completion, I prefer to have these costs reflected in the purchase price.



Because the marina is extremely busy right now, they're unable to provide an estimate before my condition expires. So, any rough ideas would be helpful. Thanks again.

 

[Comodave]

To replace the bridge enclosure would be 6 to 8 thousand dollars here in Michigan. To do the restitching if the materials are in good condition probably 1 to 1.5 thousand.

The stuffing boxes are another deal entirely. Depending on what needs replacing it could vary a lot. I replaced the traditional stuffing boxes on a previous boat. One took about 3 hours and the other took over 15 hours due to the coupler being machined wrong. If they just need repacking then a couple of hours, don’t remember if they were dripless or not.

The hull paint could be 1 to 30 thousand depending on what has to be done. I did all the fiberglass work on mine, PO was a charter member of the coalition of the docking impaired, and hired a painter to spray the hull. Labor cost me $980 but he said if he had done all the prep work it would have been over $25K.

Good luck.

 

[RossWilson]

The stuffing boxes are the dripless type. I've heard they're much more expensive than the regular variety. The broker just informed me that we'll have the marina's quote of the replacement of the boxes and rudder post seals on Tuesday. Hallelujah!


She also reported that the white splotches on the hull washed off with plain water. And she has no idea what it was. The photo of the area in the surveyor's report that was taken that same morning before the sea trial showed no such white defects. I'm heading up there on Tuesday to take another look.


The broker also said the canvas guy who did the cleaning and water-proofing last winter was able to stretch the canvas back into place except for a few fasteners. He said those will be re-fastened with warmer weather. And she said no seams were split. We'll see on Tuesday.


Thanks again for your comments.

 

[Comodave]

Glad to hear you are making progress. Good luck with the boat.

 

[BandB]

I can tell from the tone of your posts that you are excited about this boat and she DOES show well (I looked her up) but this is NOT the time to be emotional IN ANY WAY! I advise TOTAL pragmatism. Tough to say but there ARE other boats out there. Both eyes open and patience, my friend.

Total Pragmatism? Then you don't advise owning boats? I do share your concern however over the possible falling in love with the boat and wearing blinders. Just need to figure out the possible costs and then decide.

 

[BandB]

Just clarification as you found that Awlgrip and Awlcraft are totally different products. Awlgrip should generally not be waxed or buffed, but sometimes that is called for if it's deteriorated. I strongly recommend for the most part using Awlgrips products on it, even though pricey. Awlcraft, on the other hand is similar to Alexseal, does require occasional waxing. Can be machine buffed but only with the right equipment and pads, which both manufacturers have 3M products they recommend.

 

[sunchaser]

Buffing of either Awl product by an overzealous hard pressure "wielder" can lead to heat buildup and lift the paint. The same buffing techniques and products used on FRP should be shunned.

 

[Vashon_Trawler]

A little puff of grey/whitish smoke at start up normal for many diesels. My diesel has 600 hours and I always see a tiny amount of smoke at start up. Before servicing my injectors, the smoke was more pronounced and I had a small sheen in the water.

 

[Molly]

My 2006 34T gets that smell every time. I figure it's the shape of the boat and the draft. I do try and take it up to WOT at least for 10 minutes every time I go out. I noticed less smoke now. Early in the season, I have to wax the transom after every trip. Now, it seems better. There are tons of Mainship 34T's out there. If you have doubts, keep looking.

 

[Sangraal]

I'm unsure whether its Awlgrip or Awlcraft. Consensus opinion seems to indicate the latter. Nevertheless, I'd still not power buff.

If it is awlcraft then an area can be resprayed and cut in relatively easily. If it is awlgrip then patching is much more challenging. Either way it is not cheap. Hull with color (red) will be more difficult to match as sun fade will add another level of complexity. Good luck!

 

[Bacchus]

If it is awlcraft then an area can be resprayed and cut in relatively easily. If it is awlgrip then patching is much more challenging. Either way it is not cheap. Hull with color (red) will be more difficult to match as sun fade will add another level of complexity. Good luck!

My experience has been very good with color match and touch up. Paint is not like gelcoat in regards to chalk & fade... think modern auto finishes... they get scratched but don't fade like paint of old.

 

[BandB]

My experience has been very good with color match and touch up. Paint is not like gelcoat in regards to chalk & fade... think modern auto finishes... they get scratched but don't fade like paint of old.

But what paint has your experience been good with? Alexseal and Awlcraft are known to be fairly easy, but Awlgrip is not.

 

[Bacchus]

Yes Awlcraft and my understanding has been that's all Mainship used for late models. I won't claim any info for earlier ones.

 

[Symphony]

Complete prep and paint of 34’ rum runner hull with Awlgrip was $8300 US last year.

Awlcraft not likely on a 2006 MS., but many with awlgrip. Great stuff and use awlwash and awlcare to get amazing results - better than wax and compound a gelcoat hull

 

[RossWilson]

Hello everybody: An update on my purchase of the 2006 Mainship 34T.



It seems that the paint is Awlcraft, as stated in the original documentation for the vessel. The previous owner obviously hadn't read all the manuals and brochures which I've begun to ingest.


I consulted a local boat repair and paint specialist about the paint. It seems that the paint is not flaking - it was bird **** on the hull, a rather large quantity. I hadn't had the opportunity to take a really close look. Those avians must have been targeting her! According to maintenance records, the hull has been buffed and waxed for at least the last 3 seasons, but they apparently used a very soft pad and mild compound. The painter said it will probably be okay. But for longer life, he recommended switching to Awlwash and Awlcare products. He said that for patching, he has found this product is sometimes challenging to colour-match, but not impossible.



The seller had agreed to undertake repairs/replacements of certain components found defective during the on-the-hard portion of the survey inspection. And he further agreed to adjust the price by $5k when during the sea trial, we found one of the dripless stuffing boxes and the port rudder shaft seals were leaking slightly. Frankly, since it was likely the other side would likely soon need attention too, I insisted he compensate for both sides. Otherwise, the trial was successful.



In spite of the cool weather, the canvas guy was able to stretch most of the canvas back into place. He also assured me that the remaining few would stretch with warmer temperatures. It looks like I might get a few more years out of it. Frankly, I'm thinking about a future hard-top installation anyway. A hard-top would also permit the addition of some serious real estate for solar panels.


With the electronic controls and bow and stern thrusters in addition to the twin mains, it was a treat motoring her into my new home harbour at Hindson Marina, Georgian Bay. Smooth! Thanks, everyone, for your guidance throughout this process. I'm really glad to be part of this forum and hope to contribute with future posts. Happy boating!

 

[Bacchus]

Ross
Thanks for the update and confirmation re AWLCRAFT. That agrees with the best and most reliable info I have been able to gather. If you have original docs it should list paint color as well... mine did... and it made the color selection EZ. Awlgrip has way too many dark blues and I think it would have been a challenge to choose from a color chart.
I am very pleased w the touch up paint I did. Where possible repaint a larger area than needed to end at a contour change in the hull and you avoid some issues. There are tricks in masking that my spray operator taught me that makes blending much easier.
Get and use the Awlcare polymer you will like it.
I just use car wash soap followed w a vinegar spray to get the hard water spots off before applying the poly finish. I have found a flat microfiber floor pad on a long handle does a good job of cleaning from the dock.
Good luck w the closing and cruising.
The MS 34T/HT BOM and parts info on my Bacchus website should be helpful as you get exploring & tinkering.

 

[RossWilson]

The manufacturer's packet also includes the full colour chart with chips and numbers. Fortunately, I'll not have to paint anytime soon. But when I do, there are only 2 distinctive reds.


Since my hull has been waxed for at least the last 3 years, before using the Awlwash and Awlcare, I presume I'll have to remove the wax residue. Am I correct? What would you recommend for this task? I'd hate to damage the paint.


I've oft visited your website and have found it useful during my research. Thanks, Don.

 

[Comodave]

Congrats on your new baby. Good luck.

 

[Bacchus]

Ross
Re wax removal... down dish soap and simple green cut grease and will remove wax. You might check the Awlgrip site to see if they recommend anything specific or against anything. I have used ammonia on gelcoat to make sure all wax was off before installing my PlasDeck teak & holly on aft & side decks.
Enjoy your new baby...
When NY canals open we are headed your way via LkOnt & TSW. Hoping to spend July on Georgian Bay so keep an eye out for Bacchus flying a TF Burgee.

 

[RossWilson]

Thanks, Don. Will do. And you can watch for our red-hulled 34T MS. There are very few here. I'll check out the Awlgrip site and your recommendations. Safe trip!

 

[Symphony]

Congrats on a great new boat. Your careful review paid off. She is perfect for your waters.

All boats have something to fix so you can crawl around enjoying the hidden areas of your vessel.