Cruising Lake Champlain

[Seevee]

Question:
Seems like the height restrictions are all in the Champlain canal for the most part. Would it be prudent to put the mast down and leave it down for all of them. My mast is a bitch to lower.

 

[rslifkin]

Question:
Seems like the height restrictions are all in the Champlain canal for the most part. Would it be prudent to put the mast down and leave it down for all of them. My mast is a bitch to lower.

Unless you have something you really need it up for along the way, I'd drop it before the Champlain Canal and just leave it down until you're past the last low spot. What's your height with the mast up vs down?

 

[backinblue]

I think there is only one low bridge that is of any concern to most boats, but I'm sure you can look it up.

 

[Seevee]

Unless you have something you really need it up for along the way, I'd drop it before the Champlain Canal and just leave it down until you're past the last low spot. What's your height with the mast up vs down?

Mast up19.135 ft
Mast Down, Bimini up 16 ft 3 in.

 

[rslifkin]

Mast up19.135 ft
Mast Down, Bimini up 16 ft 3 in.

Looks like there a few bridges under 20 feet throughout the length of the canal, so I'd plan to just drop it in Waterford (nothing under 25 feet up to that point and keep it down until the other end. Looking at the note for bridges C-5 and C-5A, you should check on water level at that point, as it may need to be lowered (or you'd have to drop the bimini).

https://www.canals.ny.gov/boating/bridgeheights.html#champlain

 

[backinblue]

CHAMPLAIN CANAL
12 foot minimum depth unless noted otherwise; Lowest overhead clearance is 17 feet.

 

[Seevee]

Looks like there a few bridges under 20 feet throughout the length of the canal, so I'd plan to just drop it in Waterford (nothing under 25 feet up to that point and keep it down until the other end. Looking at the note for bridges C-5 and C-5A, you should check on water level at that point, as it may need to be lowered (or you'd have to drop the bimini).

https://www.canals.ny.gov/boating/bridgeheights.html#champlain

Those charts don't seem to tell what the current level is. Is there a site where one can get that?

 

[rslifkin]

Those charts don't seem to tell what the current level is. Is there a site where one can get that?

I think the current levels are only available by calling the canal corp or asking a lockmaster. I've never seen it listed anywhere online.


Generally, the NY canals stick pretty close to normal pool. They do post alerts online for high water due to reduced bridge clearance.

 

[Mischief Managed]

All,


Will be cruising Lake Champlain this summer, most likely in June.


Looking for neat places to see, good anchorages and things I might want to avoid.



Heading up on the Hudson to get there. Looks like a pretty good hike up the Champlain river/canal..... anything exciting there?


Then heading up to Montreal..... if Canada open.



Thoughts?

I think you'll have a great time.



We enjoyed a stay at Schuyler Yacht Basin on the Champlain Canal. While there, we took an Uber to Saratoga Springs which was a great place to visit. Walking around Schuylerville was interesting as well.


Willsboro Bay is a great anchorage, but there is not much to do there.


We got a transient slip at Westport and do not recommend it. The waves were horrendous.


Champlain Marina is excellent and you can get a great and very reasonably-priced meal at Rozzi's, a short stroll away.



We stayed in Burlington for a few days and took a city bus to the Shelburne Museum for a fantastic day. It's a great museum, especially if you love Americana. Where comfy shoes, the place is massive.



You can anchor and dinghy ashore to Fort Ticonderoga, but there's no dock, you just beach your dinghy there and hike up the hill. The fort is pretty cool, but I was disappointed to learn that there were never any battles fought for it.


A meal at the Naked Turtle in Plattsburgh is worth the stop.



We enjoyed Burton Island State Park.


North Hero Marina is a great stop. The tiki bar there is quite fun. There's a nice anchorage in Pelots Bay near the marina.


There's a decent anchorage northeast of Hero's Welcome, a cool stop in City Bay on North Hero Island.


We enjoyed anchoring for the day at the beach at Alburgh Dunes State Park.


A cruise up Otter Creek to Vergennes is pretty cool.

 

[backinblue]

Vergennes was on my list but never got there, looks really cool. I also spent a night in Schuylerville, nice marina, restaurant and bar overlooking the water. I don't have a lot of experience on the lake, but the trip up the Hudson and the canal are very cool and scenic and lots of history, you shouldn't be bored. Seeing West Point from the water was a highlight. Especially understanding why that location was chosen from a strategic standpoint. Millions of cars cross the George Washington Bridge every day, but how many know there is a lighthouse underneath it? Croton Point is a good anchorage about halfway up the Hudson. Don't forget there are tidal currents the whole way to Albany, so ride them if you can. Regarding Ticonderoga, there is this:

On May 10, 1775, Benedict Arnold joined Ethan Allen and the Green Mountain Boys of Vermont in a dawn attack on the fort, surprising and capturing the sleeping British garrison. Although it was a small-scale conflict, the Battle of Fort Ticonderoga was the first American victory of the Revolutionary War, and would give the Continental Army much-needed artillery to be used in future battles. There were three battles that took place there during the Revolutionary War.

Also some cool reading about the chain that was built to span the Hudson as a blockade to British ships:

https://www.albanyinstitute.org/det...-the-great-chain-across-the-hudson-river.html

 

[TomCat]

I live and work on Lake Champlain in the Burlington area and drive classic sailboat tours. I can give you tons of local info and recommendations. Feel free to PM me or contact me through my business: www.pcivt.com

Capt. Tom Peterson

 

[Leo Reise]

BTW information only - I did not see it mentioned but Y Valve must be completely removed on Lake Champlain. Closed and locked does not comply.

That said, all other comments about the lake and trip.are true. Enjoy

 

[CaptGary]

We are also considering Lake Champlain and possibly the Triangle Loop next year. Leaving from Narragansett Bay probably Late June/early July. We have been down the Hudson from Donovan's Shady Harbor Marina south, and it is beautiful. My one caution with Haverstraw Bay is the entrance. It is well protected, but be careful going in. It is very shallow. There is a Bob's Track you can download that shows the way. We'll look for you!

 

[backinblue]

BTW information only - I did not see it mentioned but Y Valve must be completely removed on Lake Champlain. Closed and locked does not comply.

That said, all other comments about the lake and trip.are true. Enjoy

Without looking it up, I think the wording is that the hose from the holding tank to the overboard thru-hull must be physically removed. That said, I don't know how many boats actually comply with that, but when I purchased my boat on Lake Champlain, everything was connected and funtional. At the time, it had been operated that way for 8 years on the lake. I don't boat there so I don't know how much it is enforced. My surveyor told me not to worry about it during my delivery trip and if stopped to tell the officer that I am in the process of moving the boat off the lake.

 

[newt]

Most boats don't fully disconnect. I just remove the handle. I called CG-Station Burlington, they said that's fine.

 

[backinblue]

Most boats don't fully disconnect. I just remove the handle. I called CG-Station Burlington, they said that's fine.

No worries. I believe you even if it makes no sense. Removing a handle is not much different than locking the handle closed. Either can be changed easy enough if you wanted to break the law.

 

[newt]

Yep, agreed. I'm just not willing to have a disconnected thru-hull on my boat. If it broke for some reason, well, my black tank might fillup, but not the whole boat.

 

[tparrent]

I moved my boat from CT up to Burlington last July. Fun, easy trip.


Kingston was nice. The municipal dock is fairly loose so don't jump off the boat onto it or you will either swim or dance! I did quite the jig when I hooped onto it the first time! Location can't be beat.



Troy has a new municipal wall dock within easy walking distance to a bunch of restaurants in case you don't get to Waterford (or if it is full). Good place to start from for an early morning entrance to the canal.


Ft Edwards has a nice, free wall. Try Ye Olde Fort Inn for breakfast. Don't be put off by the exterior (or interior) appearance. Good food and hilarious local atmosphere.


Whitehall wall was free and nice.


On Champlain itself, I highly recommend Burton's Island state park. As I have only been on the lake part of one season, I'm taking notes on all the other places people mentioned.


Like others, I plan to hit Montreal, Ottawa and possibly Quebec City next summer.



I'm at Burlington Harbor Marina. Super place with great staff. Only a couple years old and in great shape. Make reservations well ahead of time especially if you will be there near a holiday. Give me a shout if you make it there.


The lock operators will adjust water to accommodate higher boats. Give the marina manager Bob at Burlington Harbor a call for details. He knows all the lockmasters and can set you up.

 

[CaptGary]

Without looking it up, I think the wording is that the hose from the holding tank to the overboard thru-hull must be physically removed. That said, I don't know how many boats actually comply with that, but when I purchased my boat on Lake Champlain, everything was connected and funtional. At the time, it had been operated that way for 8 years on the lake. I don't boat there so I don't know how much it is enforced. My surveyor told me not to worry about it during my delivery trip and if stopped to tell the officer that I am in the process of moving the boat off the lake.

I bought my boat on the upper Hudson in Albany. It spent a lot of it's life on Lake Champlain. I was initially curious why it had a fitting that would disconnect the hose leading to the overboard discharge and another fitting that would cap it off. I guess there are some boaters that do comply.

 

[Leo Reise]

All - if my statement re YValve was incorrect my apologies. It was information I read last evening about the Great Loop in a book by Skipper Bob purchased from Waterway Guide. Book published 2020 Cruising the Great Loop

 

[backinblue]

I bought my boat on the upper Hudson in Albany. It spent a lot of it's life on Lake Champlain. I was initially curious why it had a fitting that would disconnect the hose leading to the overboard discharge and another fitting that would cap it off. I guess there are some boaters that do comply.

I don't doubt that many do, but also likely that many don't comply. Most any method can be easily defeated if you wanted to, unless you remove the thru hull and glass it over.

 

[twistedtree]

The black water disconnected hose thing has been discussed extensive on the Great Loop Association forum. It's state law, not federal. Since the CG doesn't enforce state laws, they will understandably say it's fine if you meet the federal guidelines which accept removed valve handles, zip tied handles, key locks and key switches, etc. Any problems will be with state law enforcement.


I don't recall all the details, but there was a strong argument that VT's law is illegal since it conflicts with federal law. Champlain is a federal waterway, and if a state wants more poop protection than is otherwise offered by federal laws, they can appeal to be an NDZ. But an NDZ is clearly defined, as are the acceptable ways to "secure" you black water discharge. But of course unless you are willing and able to challenge the state law, what are you going to do? When we were cruising the inland waters we ended up deciding to skip Vermont mostly because of this. I say that sadly because I'm a Vermont resident and would like to encourage visiting boaters, not discourage them.


All this was a good 10 years ago, and at the time many people were reporting being inspected and fined for not having their discharge hoses physically disconnected. It doesn't sound like anyone here has recently had any issues, so perhaps the state withdrew the law, or has stopped enforcing it.

 

[backinblue]

The black water disconnected hose thing has been discussed extensive on the Great Loop Association forum. It's state law, not federal. Since the CG doesn't enforce state laws, they will understandably say it's fine if you meet the federal guidelines which accept removed valve handles, zip tied handles, key locks and key switches, etc. Any problems will be with state law enforcement.


I don't recall all the details, but there was a strong argument that VT's law is illegal since it conflicts with federal law. Champlain is a federal waterway, and if a state wants more poop protection than is otherwise offered by federal laws, they can appeal to be an NDZ. But an NDZ is clearly defined, as are the acceptable ways to "secure" you black water discharge. But of course unless you are willing and able to challenge the state law, what are you going to do? When we were cruising the inland waters we ended up deciding to skip Vermont mostly because of this. I say that sadly because I'm a Vermont resident and would like to encourage visiting boaters, not discourage them.


All this was a good 10 years ago, and at the time many people were reporting being inspected and fined for not having their discharge hoses physically disconnected. It doesn't sound like anyone here has recently had any issues, so perhaps the state withdrew the law, or has stopped enforcing it.

As far as I know it is still law, maybe just not enforced unless you are stopped for other stupid behavior and they want to pile on. I actually found somewhere in VT law that even gray water discharge is illegal, but nobody I talked to ever heard of that so I'm pretty sure it's not an issue.

 

[angus99]

The black water disconnected hose thing has been discussed extensive on the Great Loop Association forum. It's state law, not federal. Since the CG doesn't enforce state laws, they will understandably say it's fine if you meet the federal guidelines which accept removed valve handles, zip tied handles, key locks and key switches, etc. Any problems will be with state law enforcement.


I don't recall all the details, but there was a strong argument that VT's law is illegal since it conflicts with federal law. Champlain is a federal waterway, and if a state wants more poop protection than is otherwise offered by federal laws, they can appeal to be an NDZ. But an NDZ is clearly defined, as are the acceptable ways to "secure" you black water discharge. But of course unless you are willing and able to challenge the state law, what are you going to do? When we were cruising the inland waters we ended up deciding to skip Vermont mostly because of this. I say that sadly because I'm a Vermont resident and would like to encourage visiting boaters, not discourage them.


All this was a good 10 years ago, and at the time many people were reporting being inspected and fined for not having their discharge hoses physically disconnected. It doesn't sound like anyone here has recently had any issues, so perhaps the state withdrew the law, or has stopped enforcing it.

I wonder if this faux-NDZ state law would also prohibit the discharge of treated waste from an MSD such as a Purasan?

 

[PNK]

Lake Champlain

We love Champlain, but the comment about water temps was right on; June averages about 60 degrees, so pretty frosty for swimming. A great spot to try is Burton Island Marina, which has slips and some moorings. They have power at the slips, and will even pump you out. It is only accessible by boat, so it is pretty low-key compared to other places. I think there is still a small coffee shop/convenience store open during the day, but it is pretty basic.Hero Island and Grand Isle have nice state parks if you feel like getting ashore for some walks or bike rides. Sounds like a great trip!

 

[backinblue]

Beautiful lake. Just don't run into Champ!

 

[Bacchus]

As far as I know it is still law, maybe just not enforced unless you are stopped for other stupid behavior and they want to pile on. I actually found somewhere in VT law that even gray water discharge is illegal, but nobody I talked to ever heard of that so I'm pretty sure it's not an issue.

Bob
Can you cite the Vt regs that ban gray water discharge?
I have looked for it in NY and Vt regs but could never find it.
I have seen lake association pamphlets that state no gray water discharge but when I wrote to them (twice) for clarification and reference to state laws I never received a response. My belief (until I see it in print in the regs) is that it is similar to " champy"... oft repeated myth or folk lore with no bearing to facts.
I've been wrong before but still waiting for evidence.
I've cruised there several times... never been stopped / checked not seen or heard of anyone being stopped.
The hose disconnect reqmt is another story... it is state regs but conflicts w Feds. I've been in comp,isnce some times and not others... never been asked.

 

[TomCat]

How do you like your Eagle?

 

[newt]

I had my attorneys look into the gray water issue and they assured me it’s not an issue. There’s a local enviro group that tries to spread the word that gray water discharge is illegal. But it’s not. There’s also a sea grant opinion on that one.

http://nsglc.olemiss.edu/Advisory/pdfs/graywater-research.pdf

Newt

 

[rslifkin]

I wonder if this faux-NDZ state law would also prohibit the discharge of treated waste from an MSD such as a Purasan?

Lake Champlain is already a federal NDZ, so no treated discharge. The "must disconnect hose" thing is a potentially unenforceable (at least for non-resident boats) add-on to the NDZ requirements.