OP
OP
proudsailor
Veteran Member
Love it. But the goal is to have the good one before I'm too old to enjoy it!
Dear broker- it's not you, it's me?
- Thread starter proudsailor
- Start date
The friendliest place on the web for anyone who enjoys boating.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
Love it. But the goal is to have the good one before I'm too old to enjoy it!
SeaMaster101
Senior Member
- Joined
- Oct 27, 2015
- Messages
- 102
- Location
- Canada
- Vessel Name
- SeaWitch
- Vessel Make
- 47' Cheoy Lee SeaMaster
You should get a broker that you feel comfortable with acting for you. You don’t pay him commission. The commission is paid by the seller and selling and buying broker will split it in some way.
Having a knowledgeable broker to alt on your behalf for no additional charge is priceless.
Having a knowledgeable broker to alt on your behalf for no additional charge is priceless.
Dear Broker - It's Not you?
When we started looking several years ago we wound up using a buyer's broker, which turned out to be a really good thing. When we finally found, as we thought at the time, the right boat, we put down our deposit, signed a contract, and we went for a second visit with our broker, and in the course of a conversation with the seller's broker, found out that the boat had no manuals for anything mechanical, and no service records. Our broker said we should walk, and he was able to get our deposit back. Maybe we could have done that on our own, but maybe not, and that one day made it seem worth-while.
There have been a lot of discussions on this topic on TF, and you may find some seller's brokers who won't show a boat because they don't want to split the commission - that did happen to us, but just once - but in general we found that it made us more comfortable with the whole process.
Good luck, I am sure you will find the right boat, and the time you are spending looking is making you a much more knowledgeable buyer.
When we started looking several years ago we wound up using a buyer's broker, which turned out to be a really good thing. When we finally found, as we thought at the time, the right boat, we put down our deposit, signed a contract, and we went for a second visit with our broker, and in the course of a conversation with the seller's broker, found out that the boat had no manuals for anything mechanical, and no service records. Our broker said we should walk, and he was able to get our deposit back. Maybe we could have done that on our own, but maybe not, and that one day made it seem worth-while.
There have been a lot of discussions on this topic on TF, and you may find some seller's brokers who won't show a boat because they don't want to split the commission - that did happen to us, but just once - but in general we found that it made us more comfortable with the whole process.
Good luck, I am sure you will find the right boat, and the time you are spending looking is making you a much more knowledgeable buyer.
rwaldrop13
Veteran Member
Been actively looking for over a year. Fell in love with a trawler last year that the broker said was "ready for the islands" only to find out she wasn't ready to leave with me anywhere, nor could she (survey sea trial couldn't get her out of the marina). Found another beauty this week advertised by a reputable broker as both engines w/ "recent major overhaul" and listing only the hours since overhaul. Informed said reputable broker I want to ask for her hand in marriage after a description of the major overhaul (an overhaul makes better marriage material, right?) for which a receipt literally only saying "repair of port engine" was provided. Was subsequently told I had enough detail, now either propose or go away.
Am I being too picky? Are my expectations in my broker relationships too much? Can't we get to know each other even a little bit before spending money on an engagement ring? She's so pretty, but I know looks aren't everything. Can she go the distance? I like them older and wiser, but to jump right in without even knowing her health seems like a mistake. Maybe I need to play hard to get? Since Ann Landers is dead, I'm forced to seek relationship advice here.
It's me, isn't it? I'm not ready for a this relationship, am I.....
Seriously (some hilarious responses here) it's not you. My wife and I started working with a broker who I won't name - But it was POP Yachts - who didn't even know 1 of the boats they showed us was taking on water continuously at the dock, yet their "local" rep claimed she inspected the boat the day before we arrived. And we were driving from Raleigh NC to St Pete FL to look at this boat!
Nepidae
Senior Member
Dear Broker
Interesting that things haven't changed much sine '10 or actually before since we bought our boat in '10 and had similar experiences looking for our boat.
Now at that time you could get into the boat name directory and find an owner that you could then deal with directly (the boat we ended up buying didn't have a name and only CT Dealer tags).
She's an '86 and was brought into the country by that previous and only other owner. She had very few hours on the engine, under 500 and had no real equipment, other than a broken VHF and a LORAN which was put out of existence shortly after we purchased.
The owner was in a nursing home out of state and not reachable, so I only had surveyors to trust. I had a pre-survey done by 1 surveyor from SAMS and then prior to purchase another survey done by a NAMS surveyor. They both found the boat worth more than the original asking price and less than the 2nd broker office listing. What broker wouldn't allow you to have a survey done at a purchasers expense?
Today she is worth considerably more than we purchased her for and I wouldn't sell her for twice that.
She meets all of our needs in size, accoutrements, and costs to keep her.
BTW, during my search it seemed that if I wasn't walking in with my checkbook open even before I got to ask questions, the broker(s) had no time for me. COVID hasn't helped with waves of inexperienced people who want to be boaters who walk in with open checkbooks. Can't wait to see what happens in a year or two when payments and gas prices get to be too much, and there is a glut of boats out there and no buyers.
It is my opinion that if you keep looking the boat you want will find you. Ours did and it did take a while for it to happen, but it WAS worth the wait.
As I sit on our girl and bob around because of all the weekend cowboys going tearing by the marina I have a smile on my face because this is a true match made in heaven and soon most of those cowboys will get tired of expensive gas and high boat payments.
Wait for the good 1 to come by, buying and selling boats, kind of like a divorce doesn't make anyone happy but the lawyers, Opps, brokers.
Good luck.
Interesting that things haven't changed much sine '10 or actually before since we bought our boat in '10 and had similar experiences looking for our boat.
Now at that time you could get into the boat name directory and find an owner that you could then deal with directly (the boat we ended up buying didn't have a name and only CT Dealer tags).
She's an '86 and was brought into the country by that previous and only other owner. She had very few hours on the engine, under 500 and had no real equipment, other than a broken VHF and a LORAN which was put out of existence shortly after we purchased.
The owner was in a nursing home out of state and not reachable, so I only had surveyors to trust. I had a pre-survey done by 1 surveyor from SAMS and then prior to purchase another survey done by a NAMS surveyor. They both found the boat worth more than the original asking price and less than the 2nd broker office listing. What broker wouldn't allow you to have a survey done at a purchasers expense?
Today she is worth considerably more than we purchased her for and I wouldn't sell her for twice that.
She meets all of our needs in size, accoutrements, and costs to keep her.
BTW, during my search it seemed that if I wasn't walking in with my checkbook open even before I got to ask questions, the broker(s) had no time for me. COVID hasn't helped with waves of inexperienced people who want to be boaters who walk in with open checkbooks. Can't wait to see what happens in a year or two when payments and gas prices get to be too much, and there is a glut of boats out there and no buyers.
It is my opinion that if you keep looking the boat you want will find you. Ours did and it did take a while for it to happen, but it WAS worth the wait.
As I sit on our girl and bob around because of all the weekend cowboys going tearing by the marina I have a smile on my face because this is a true match made in heaven and soon most of those cowboys will get tired of expensive gas and high boat payments.
Wait for the good 1 to come by, buying and selling boats, kind of like a divorce doesn't make anyone happy but the lawyers, Opps, brokers.
Good luck.
MonarchBeacher
Veteran Member
Buyer: It's you, the seller and sales persons
As a broker I work with the seller all of the time to obtain documentation on any and all work done on the vessel. In my ads, I list repairs,upgrades and maintenance done with in the past few years (longer depending on severity) using the phrases "documented" or "alleged". I am amazed at how few owners have any records of the work that's been done. Many times, especially on gas boats I'll get "I rebuilt the engine, cost me nearly $4000" only to see new risers,manifolds, oil change, fuel filters, impeller and engine tune up (Plugs, wires, ect.). On diesel engines, I'll get "there's not enough time on the engine for the maintenance". Again few actual records. Records add value!
Buyer's need to respect the vessel, the owner and yes the broker. Don't start bad mouthing the boat, comparing it "there's one in x, for a lot less", or the boat "needs..."
Salespeople, know what you are selling; spend time on the boat,crawl around, look at the engine and engine space, walk the decks. Have the owner, start the engines, AC, generator and only turn on the electronics.
Also, read the ad! (I get many "buyer's broker's" that call me without reading the ad and have no ideal as to what they may be helping you purchase.
On my listings I do a "125 point" check list to become familiar with the vessel. This gives me an indication of items that may come up on survey and time to correct or price accordingly.
As a broker I work with the seller all of the time to obtain documentation on any and all work done on the vessel. In my ads, I list repairs,upgrades and maintenance done with in the past few years (longer depending on severity) using the phrases "documented" or "alleged". I am amazed at how few owners have any records of the work that's been done. Many times, especially on gas boats I'll get "I rebuilt the engine, cost me nearly $4000" only to see new risers,manifolds, oil change, fuel filters, impeller and engine tune up (Plugs, wires, ect.). On diesel engines, I'll get "there's not enough time on the engine for the maintenance". Again few actual records. Records add value!
Buyer's need to respect the vessel, the owner and yes the broker. Don't start bad mouthing the boat, comparing it "there's one in x, for a lot less", or the boat "needs..."
Salespeople, know what you are selling; spend time on the boat,crawl around, look at the engine and engine space, walk the decks. Have the owner, start the engines, AC, generator and only turn on the electronics.
Also, read the ad! (I get many "buyer's broker's" that call me without reading the ad and have no ideal as to what they may be helping you purchase.
On my listings I do a "125 point" check list to become familiar with the vessel. This gives me an indication of items that may come up on survey and time to correct or price accordingly.
Main Attraction
Member
- Joined
- Mar 11, 2018
- Messages
- 8
- Location
- Canada
- Vessel Name
- Main Attraction
- Vessel Make
- 2002 Mainship 430 Trawler
Don’t read it, sign it
Anyone who says, “Don’t read it, sign it” regarding any contract is not one to be trusted.
Anyone who says, “Don’t read it, sign it” regarding any contract is not one to be trusted.
gilbertpark
Senior Member
I have bought several; boats in my time, one boat I went to see several hundred miles away and I took loads of photos. Over the next few days I emailed the broker with a series of questions about the RCD classification (no plate was on the boat) how were the extra bilge keels fitted (beware when the broker says he is an engineer) etc. The broker said I was asking too many questions!
Gilbert
Gilbert
I have a friend selling his 57' Nordhaven. it is $990k.
The listing broker isn't even interested in learning about the the boat, which has extra features that would be important for someone to cruise on instead or being in a slip.
just so people understand it isn't just a problem of less expensive boats.
The listing broker isn't even interested in learning about the the boat, which has extra features that would be important for someone to cruise on instead or being in a slip.
just so people understand it isn't just a problem of less expensive boats.
mvweebles
Guru
- Joined
- Mar 21, 2019
- Messages
- 7,780
- Location
- United States
- Vessel Name
- Weebles
- Vessel Make
- 1970 Willard 36 Trawler
He listed with the wrong broker. There are a few brokers who know more about used Nordhavns than PAE does, and they have a decent Rolodex.
Despite being 20 years old, the N57s still command an astute following. In my opinion, they remain top of list for a cruising couple who want a somewhat compact luxury cruiser with room for guests. It's a relatively fast boat that lopes along at 9-kts for days on end, burning just 6gph (plus generator). If your friends broker can't sell that, he chose wrong..
Peter
Last edited:
Delta Riverat
Guru
- Joined
- Feb 16, 2022
- Messages
- 1,221
- Location
- Stockton
- Vessel Name
- Dream Catcher
- Vessel Make
- 1979 Island Gypsy 44 Flush Aft Deck
Ok, time for me to once again sing the praises of Barney.
Was looking for a good boat that we could fit in and sleep well. Trying to keep the budget under a hundred grand. Saw lots of boats that didn't fit us or that smelled of feces or mildew.
The Island Gypsy 44 that I saw (online) before had a serious price reduction due to a "live aboard" sale falling through. Now in the price range.
We spent more time than we were expecting to spend when we saw the boat because Barney produced both the mechanical and general surveys and reviewed them with us. He sold the boat to the previous buyer 2 years ago. He also reviewed the whole "contract process" with us and explained the "3 outs" as in you have three chances to back out of the deal.
Make the offer
Sea trial - back out #1
Survey - back out #2
Allowance for repairs - backout #3
I also explained we knew nothing about running a boat this size.
No problem, we have captains to train you. And techs to fix stuff.
Five training sessions; engine room, safety equipment, placards, close maneuvering, docking, anchoring and one "joy ride" and one trip to the local chandlery for parts.
No charge, we sort of fit it into his off time.
Every time I hear one of these "nightmare" broker stories I sure am glad it wasn't us -
Was looking for a good boat that we could fit in and sleep well. Trying to keep the budget under a hundred grand. Saw lots of boats that didn't fit us or that smelled of feces or mildew.
The Island Gypsy 44 that I saw (online) before had a serious price reduction due to a "live aboard" sale falling through. Now in the price range.
We spent more time than we were expecting to spend when we saw the boat because Barney produced both the mechanical and general surveys and reviewed them with us. He sold the boat to the previous buyer 2 years ago. He also reviewed the whole "contract process" with us and explained the "3 outs" as in you have three chances to back out of the deal.
Make the offer
Sea trial - back out #1
Survey - back out #2
Allowance for repairs - backout #3
I also explained we knew nothing about running a boat this size.
No problem, we have captains to train you. And techs to fix stuff.
Five training sessions; engine room, safety equipment, placards, close maneuvering, docking, anchoring and one "joy ride" and one trip to the local chandlery for parts.
No charge, we sort of fit it into his off time.
Every time I hear one of these "nightmare" broker stories I sure am glad it wasn't us -
Doesn't change what I wrote
henrymei
Veteran Member
Some random thoughts:
If an engine was rebuilt there will be itemized receipts. I had no problem showing them to my buyer.
Few boats are listed that weren’t “maintained by an experienced owner with an open checkbook “.
If you want a $500,000 boat that’s what you’ll end up paying.
The best addendum to a contract I saw was the ability to make several visits to the boat on different days. You’ll always miss something significant on a single visit.
All boats have or will have issues. The cost of resolving them has little to do with the purchase price but much to do with the cost of a brand new boat of similar size and displacement.
If an engine was rebuilt there will be itemized receipts. I had no problem showing them to my buyer.
Few boats are listed that weren’t “maintained by an experienced owner with an open checkbook “.
If you want a $500,000 boat that’s what you’ll end up paying.
The best addendum to a contract I saw was the ability to make several visits to the boat on different days. You’ll always miss something significant on a single visit.
All boats have or will have issues. The cost of resolving them has little to do with the purchase price but much to do with the cost of a brand new boat of similar size and displacement.
Jacques Raoul
Member
More I read this, more I pinch myself. I visited two boats that were disapointed and the third one was in good shape and the price was excellent for a 37 year old Mainship MkIII. Bought it, put it in the water and cruising since without a glitch. That was in 2016. This pure luck.?
ronobrien
Guru
I bought mine in Nov 2020. I viewed the boat at the dock with the broker present. I relied on my own eyes and knowledge to make an initial assessment. The broker said things that i could see were not true. Was he ignorant or lying, I don't know, but I knew I couldn't rely on his word.
sunchaser
Guru
- Joined
- Apr 9, 2008
- Messages
- 10,298
- Location
- usa
- Vessel Name
- sunchaser V
- Vessel Make
- DeFever 48 (sold)
As Peter said in Post 41 your friend chose the wrong broker. Many 57s sell without listing as they’re exceptional candidates for major refits. A savvy potential N57 buyer does not need much from a listing broker except decent paper shuffling. A 57 sells itself if priced right and not neglected.
