Defender Industries has been aquired

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I’ve bought from Defender in the past but the last year or do they changed their pricing policy so to get their good price you had to be a member. WTF. Also I noticed there were holes in their inventory. I’ve lived too long, I yearn for the days of Hopkins Carter.
 
You're right

I just saw that...and it makes me a bit nervous 'cuz private equity focus is almost always entirely on profit, whereas Defender's focus has always been on giving buyers the "best bang for their buck."


--Peggie

This is not good : (
 
Defender wants to make a profit? Is that a bad thing???
West marine is having trouble finding basic things such as 1" reenforced black rubber hose.
I have had an order in for a length of hose for over 2 weeks. I have bought a 1"x12 ft length from a their competitor.

They have been making a profit! For Christ's sake they have been in business forever! VC will destroy this company as they always do by cutting service and raising prices (not to mention what will happen to the loyal employees).
 
I’ve bought from Defender in the past but the last year or do they changed their pricing policy so to get their good price you had to be a member. WTF. Also I noticed there were holes in their inventory. I’ve lived too long, I yearn for the days of Hopkins Carter.

This is not an unusual policy these days. West Marine has done it for years (in a slightly different way) as does Amazon, Costco, etc. It helps their business model to have a base income from membership aside from actual sales. You can feel free to join or not, but if you are buying something expensive, it can pay for itself in a single purchase and then you get continued benefits for the rest of the year. I don't have a problem with that. My Amazon Prime membership pays for itself many times over from free shipping, free video streaming, free Kindle books, etc.
 
This is not an unusual policy these days. West Marine has done it for years (in a slightly different way) as does Amazon, Costco, etc. It helps their business model to have a base income from membership aside from actual sales. You can feel free to join or not, but if you are buying something expensive, it can pay for itself in a single purchase and then you get continued benefits for the rest of the year. I don't have a problem with that. My Amazon Prime membership pays for itself many times over from free shipping, free video streaming, free Kindle books, etc.

There are two distinct ways of doing it. One is the Amazon, Costco, Sams Club way which is make it a huge part of profits, if not 100%, and provide substantial benefits. There were pioneer clubs long before them, offering discounts to everyone who joined, but serving members only.

The other way is to just require signup for the discounts. Signup gets you address and email and the way to send offers to the customer. We do this with our businesses. Grocery stores do it, to shop at any as a non-member just costs you. Ace Hardware does it. It's simply identification for discount.
 
...It's simply identification for discount.

No, it's not -- in that model, I either give you my identifying information so I can become your marketing target and enhance your customer database, or else you charge me more. You may think it's a benign, passive kind of thing, but from my perspective I have to pay higher prices (or go elsewhere) if I want to avoid being somebody's captive marketing target. It's the same issue I have with a lot of charitable causes. Alumni associations, relief organizations, political parties and PACs, arts foundations -- if I give any of them two cents then they will hound me to the ends of the earth forever after. You may not grasp this because you're on the opposite side, but I think a lot of customers and contributors are sick and tired of being everybody's constant marketing target.
 
I very seldom donate to political causes for the same reason.
 
No, it's not -- in that model, I either give you my identifying information so I can become your marketing target and enhance your customer database, or else you charge me more. You may think it's a benign, passive kind of thing, but from my perspective I have to pay higher prices (or go elsewhere) if I want to avoid being somebody's captive marketing target. It's the same issue I have with a lot of charitable causes. Alumni associations, relief organizations, political parties and PACs, arts foundations -- if I give any of them two cents then they will hound me to the ends of the earth forever after. You may not grasp this because you're on the opposite side, but I think a lot of customers and contributors are sick and tired of being everybody's constant marketing target.

I don't say it's benign and I fully grasp your view. It's a choice. On groceries, I either save 5% by signing up or I don't. Most grocery stores don't send much out. If you don't want it in your email, use a burner email account. I hate having to use a card to get the lowest price, but I play the game.

On those like Ace, I think the question is do you want their sales flyer. Most customers do. As a member store, I have no choice. As an Ace dealer, I wish I could just give everyone the discounts rather than having them sign up. If they aren't rewards members, we also advise them and they can have immediate savings, but their choice.

Another value of signing up is tracking orders shipped. I don't give out my home address, but use a PO Box. However, for delivery I must give the home address.

Now, I do think there must be care on the retailer's side. How frequently do they contact you? Also, what opt-outs do they have. Most memberships today allow you to opt completely out of marketing contact.

As a general retailer when we get a customers information, we ask is it ok to email them coupons and sale information. 99% say it is. Anytime we email they have the option to cancel those emails. Few do, just those who move away.

Bed, Bath and Beyond has been by far the most pervasive with coupons, membership not required. I'd feel I was getting cheated if I ever bought from them and didn't get a 20% discount on everything. The coupons I hate are CVS, Walgreens, and Office Depot. Anything I ever wanted to buy was one of their exclusions.

You're right about Charities and all you list from that point forward being the worst. People are hesitant to give anonymously due to needing the receipt for tax purposes.

I am philosophically opposed to everyone not getting the same deals and prices. However, as a merchant, I can't notify one of specials without information. I don't charge them for it and it's available by choice to every customer. We will also grant it in-store to shoppers. We don't vary prices except in Ace. Elsewhere, every customer gets same deal.

The place that has always bothered me the most is auto dealerships. I study, I deal, I negotiate, and I get great prices and I think it is so unfair that I may get a better deal than the other person buying the same vehicle today.

I hate all the marketing mail as much as anyone. However, the mail from places I shop is not what bothers me. It's the Wednesday unsolicited mail and all the other unsolicted mail. I hate that I can't unsubscribe to it. I think the greatest invader of privacy is the post office that works on behalf of the mailing parties, not the recipients and has built a business on junk mail.
 
Delivery of a kitchen full of appliances from a national retailer was coming from 2 storage sources, so I was getting 2 near identical texts together, updating delivery. Same time, I began getting 2 identical scam texts, together. Coincidence? The a/holes or a staffer had sold my number, and it`s probably on the dark web judging from calls (unanswered)from peculiar countries, still happening intermittently. Could not unsubscribe fast enough, no more business for that self sabotaging retailer, definitely not good guys to deal with.
 
Defender is the only large store that I'm aware of, along that part of the coast where you can pick things up and look at it before buying - like a Walmart for boaters. Jamestown closed its walk-in showroom shopping area, and WM doesn't stock a lot on the shelves. My Defender 1st membership is up for renewal; maybe I can get one more year out of it.
 
Unfortunately, I agree

I just saw that...and it makes me a bit nervous 'cuz private equity focus is almost always entirely on profit, whereas Defender's focus has always been on giving buyers the "best bang for their buck."


--Peggie
Too often when private equity firms are involved, it is to dismantle and liquidate the acquisition for short term profit.
 
I'm probably one of the few Fortnine customers on this site, as I am a motorcyclist and live in Canada.

Fortnine has great customer service. I've shopped with them for years. They remind me of LL Bean back in the day.

No hassle returns, and correct mistakes immediately.

Also, their YouTube videos are topnotch.
 
Well, it might be time to kiss Defender goodbye. They just launched a re-done website and also killed the Defender 1st program (although they're still offering a discount to current members until membership expiration). After poking around, it looks like their pricing is nowhere near as good as it used to be. Quite a few things have gone up 10 - 20% overnight, and in many cases, items where they used to be the best price by far (such as chain) are still not badly priced, but they're no longer necessarily the cheapest source.
 
Well, it might be time to kiss Defender goodbye. They just launched a re-done website and also killed the Defender 1st program (although they're still offering a discount to current members until membership expiration). After poking around, it looks like their pricing is nowhere near as good as it used to be. Quite a few things have gone up 10 - 20% overnight, and in many cases, items where they used to be the best price by far (such as chain) are still not badly priced, but they're no longer necessarily the cheapest source.
I saw that too. They now offer free shipping on orders over $99. I figured pricing would take a hit to cover shipping.

Peter Screenshot_20230129_153227_Photos.jpg
 
Get this. I just did a spot check on a Groco sea strainer. West Marine is the cheapest. I guess pigs fly and hell has frozen over. Pricing is very close (within 2%) between West, Defender, and Fisheries, with Fisheries the highest, even with a commercial account. Without the account, Fisheries is significantly higher (like 25%).
 
Get this. I just did a spot check on a Groco sea strainer. West Marine is the cheapest. I guess pigs fly and hell has frozen over. Pricing is very close (within 2%) between West, Defender, and Fisheries, with Fisheries the highest, even with a commercial account. Without the account, Fisheries is significantly higher (like 25%).


It wouldn't be the first time I've seen West come up cheapest. They're usually on the more expensive side overall, but sometimes specific items break the rules and come up cheaper at West. Many of the other suppliers (including Fisheries, Go2Marine, etc.) have good pricing on some stuff, and not so great on other stuff.

For Acco/Peerless chain, a little more digging turns up that Defender is still the cheapest of the online chandleries, but they're no longer cheaper than 1st Chain Supply. 1st can now beat Defender's pricing on chain by a small margin (about $70 difference on a half drum of 5/16" G43, and 1st will ship it for free, not sure Defender will do free truck freight on that).
 
It wouldn't be the first time I've seen West come up cheapest. They're usually on the more expensive side overall, but sometimes specific items break the rules and come up cheaper at West. Many of the other suppliers (including Fisheries, Go2Marine, etc.) have good pricing on some stuff, and not so great on other stuff.

For Acco/Peerless chain, a little more digging turns up that Defender is still the cheapest of the online chandleries, but they're no longer cheaper than 1st Chain Supply. 1st can now beat Defender's pricing on chain by a small margin (about $70 difference on a half drum of 5/16" G43, and 1st will ship it for free, not sure Defender will do free truck freight on that).


My general experience is the same, and reinforces the value is shopping around.
 
I'd say over 50% of the stuff I bought for my refit came from Defender. Between inflation and what appears to be a sizeable price strategy change, I'm glad I'm just about done.

BTW - for those in the San Diego area, a commercial account via San Diego Marine Exchange rivals the old Defender pricing without hassle of shipping and can be tax free. I've picked up a bunch of stuff using La Costa/Guillermo account. Plus SDMX is an old school chandlery with long term employees.

Peter
 
I have never had a bad experience with Defender, hope that doesn't change

pete
 
While you guys have been ragging on West, I've been picking up bargains, selectively.

However, fulfillment is clearly out of individual stores in the chain. An order of 3-4 items can result in 3-4 different boxes from different parts of the country. Packing quality is, let's just say "casual" to be kind. Sometimes well done. Other times barely held together boxes. They are not well setup for online order fulfillment.
 
After being in Mexico for a few years, I now think of West Marine as a discount shop. Let's just say it's a challenging refit environment unless you're willing or able to regularly bring stuff down from the states.
 
There's nothing I can't find on Amazon...at a lower price, at that.
 
There's nothing I can't find on Amazon...at a lower price, at that.


I'd strongly argue that one. I do buy plenty of boat stuff from Amazon, but they don't always have the stuff I'm looking for. Or in many cases, they have it, but not a good quality example of it. And even when they have exactly what I want, they're not always the cheapest source.
 
I'd strongly argue that one. I do buy plenty of boat stuff from Amazon, but they don't always have the stuff I'm looking for. Or in many cases, they have it, but not a good quality example of it. And even when they have exactly what I want, they're not always the cheapest source.

But if you figure in free shipping it usually is good enough. And with one click shopping the hassle of typing in address and credit card makes it much easier. But my fear is that in the future we may only have Amazon to shop from…
 
But if you figure in free shipping it usually is good enough. And with one click shopping the hassle of typing in address and credit card makes it much easier. But my fear is that in the future we may only have Amazon to shop from…

You forgot to mention the automatic 5% discount if you use the Amazon store card or Amazon credit card.
 
If things don’t change, we just end up with Defender, Amazon then West Marine.
 
Defender is the only large store that I'm aware of, along that part of the coast where you can pick things up and look at it before buying - like a Walmart for boaters. Jamestown closed its walk-in showroom shopping area, and WM doesn't stock a lot on the shelves. My Defender 1st membership is up for renewal; maybe I can get one more year out of it.

This and the annual sale were the biggies for me. Also you could actually talk to someone who would tell you which vendor had the best quality.


Folks talk about which chain the miss. I miss small mom and pop chandleries. They were a social experience for me. Always find a friend there or chat with the store help who became friends as well.
 
This and the annual sale were the biggies for me. Also you could actually talk to someone who would tell you which vendor had the best quality.


Folks talk about which chain the miss. I miss small mom and pop chandleries. They were a social experience for me. Always find a friend there or chat with the store help who became friends as well.

Yes, but unfortunately that isn’t the way of the world these days…
 
This isn’t last year's Defender. I want the hour of my life back that I lost trying to place an order. Nothing has improved as far as the website for placing an order.

It took me less than 5 minutes to find an engine room blower and order it (<$40 and freight free) from Hodges. Last year it was cheaper at Defender.

Bought a new oil change pump from Defender today. If the next purchase is this much of a PIA, Defender will fall into my last resort category along with West Marine.

Ted
 
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