DIY Maintenance

[psneeld]

Being in the boat business for long enough to know it MAY be a good indicator....but isn't anywhere near 100%.....just like my people comparison..

For general maintenance...I think indicators like logs, certain features on an engine, clamps, security of items, etc count for a lot more than cleanliness...oh and maybe 20, 000 mostly uninterupted cruising miles may say something about the owner too and why things aren't spotless. Again not perfect but a better choice to me.

I love a "pretty" engine room.....but glossy paint, armor all on hoses, shiny walkways, dazzling bilges, etc....are not real maintenance....I consider it housekeeping. Not sure it equates to love by itself.

 

[backinblue]

Good point PS. Many buyers focus on engine hours and engine appearance. If a diesel is used often and well-maintained, it's probably in better shape than one that has sit idle in the water most of the time. Yet buyers will pay more for low hour engines. I used to own a motorcycle and rode about 5K miles a year +/-. When I sold it with 60K miles on it, I would bet it was in much better shape than a similar year/model with only a couple thousand miles.

 

[moparharn]

"Being in the boat business for long enough to know it MAY be a good indicator....but isn't anywhere near 100%" - Isn't that exactly what I said? Not a guarantee?

"20,000 mostly uninterupted cruising miles may say something about the owner too "
That is not what we are talking about here is it? That is not what most boats represent. If so, do you mean like buying a 2 million mile Volvo station wagon from 1980 that the guy just finished using? Buying a "miler" has its own set of unique circumstances.

As a "general guideline", "something to look for", I am more than comfortable with what I said.

I do not question your expertise one bit. I am offering my opinion.

 

[Simi 60]

As a person who has been doing good bit of searching I can tell you what I care most about. I want an owner who LOVES his boat and it shows. How does it show? First, and absolutely the most important to me is a spotless and organized engine room. Anyone who spends enough time to keep their engine room spotless is going to know more about his boat regardless of who maintains it. This kind of owner is also looking for every kind of situation that will degrade his boat such as water intrusion. The hard work is often in the engine room. In the age of boats I am looking at (older) when I see a spotless engine room I an VERY impressed. This does not mean there won't be problems. It just means that somebody cares about their boat. If they care they won't do crappy work themselves, or let someone else do crappy work. Vigilant. Bill

Could be the boat/car that's just had the detailing done to flog off to a dumb bunny.

I always preferred buying cars and boats that had not had a chance to be detailed yet, get to see it as it really is, nothing hidden.
Tend to not have "hidden" expenses and are cheaper to buy as well

 

[psneeld]

Could be the boat/car that's just had the detailing done to flog off to a dumb bunny.

I always preferred buying cars and boats that had not had a chance to be detailed yet, get to see it as it really is, nothing hidden.
Tend to not have "hidden" expenses and are cheaper to buy as well

Why spend money on actual maintenance if shiny objects attract?

As FF always says something like.... "paint sells"....

I have always loved my boats...but preferred using them to derailing them.....after years of running commercial boats.....my maintenance understanding went up and my worry over blemishes and dirt decreased.

 

[moparharn]

There is no spit shinning an engine room. The love and care shines through every time. A “clean up” will not do it. All things being equal I am going to buy the boat that appears to have been painstakingly cared for. Surveys, sea trials, oil sampling and more can sort out the rest. The distant owner is more likely to have water intrusion, rusty tanks, and a handful of other major issues. I have purchased hundreds of cars and was never fooled by a spit shine. Well maybe early on. I was paid to find fakes, hack jobs, and spit shined rip offs. Always appreciated the owner who loved his car and knew everything about it. Answered every question instantly and with a sense of pride. Pride in ownership shows. Period

 

[boomerang]

Could be the boat/car that's just had the detailing done to flog off to a dumb bunny.

I always preferred buying cars and boats that had not had a chance to be detailed yet, get to see it as it really is, nothing hidden.
Tend to not have "hidden" expenses and are cheaper to buy as well

Exactly. When we've gone to look at a used car, I try to pop in unannounced so as to see how the car starts cold, if there's a puddle of oil underneath, etc. Same with boats...I want to see it in an "as is" condition. I know there isn't such a thing as a dishonest car salesmen so the same must be true with boat brokers...

 

[Simi 60]

There is no spit shinning an engine room. The love and care shines through every time. A “clean up” will not do it. All things being equal I am going to buy the boat that appears to have been painstakingly cared for.

See that word?
Could well be a polished turd.

 

[backinblue]

Getting back to my motorcycle example, every fall I stripped my bike down to the frame more or less. Did valve adjustments, plugs, oil etc. Reassembled, aligned wheels, lubed everything, changed brake fluid, etc. My chain was always clean enough to eat off of on any given day. I had a friend bought a new bike and after 5 years had about 500 miles on it. Which one do you think would be in better shape for a long trip?

 

[SteveK]

Getting back to my motorcycle example, every fall I stripped my bike down to the frame more or less. Did valve adjustments, plugs, oil etc. Reassembled, aligned wheels, lubed everything, changed brake fluid, etc. My chain was always clean enough to eat off of on any given day. I had a friend bought a new bike and after 5 years had about 500 miles on it. Which one do you think would be in better shape for a long trip?

Post a picture of the parts left over, need some perspective.
Actually, the one that had the pre trip inspection within a few days of the trip.

 

[backinblue]

Post a picture of the parts left over, need some perspective.
Actually, the one that had the pre trip inspection within a few days of the trip.

Not sure I understand and I think you maybe missed my point, being that a vehicle that is used often and is well-maintained is more likely superior to one that is seldom used and sits idle most of the time. Engines in boats, especially diesels, don't die because of use, they die because of lack of use. Some buyers will think that 1 or 2K hours of use on a 10 year old boat is a lot. A truck or other piece of commercial equipment will do that in less than a year.

 

[backinblue]

Post a picture of the parts left over, need some perspective.
Actually, the one that had the pre trip inspection within a few days of the trip.

Slightly off topic, but regarding bikes, they can look clean and shiny but look at 2 things to get a quick idea of possible level of care. Brake fluid in the sight glass should be clear or almost so. Chain should be rust-free, clean and oiled with no gunk buildup, same with sprockets. Most will fail one or more of these. I saw a bike for sale once, looked pretty good but the chain was not only rusty but sagged considerably. Obviously was never maintained and in need of replacement. Good indication of "do not buy". Similar red flags exist for boats.

 

[SteveK]

Naw, I understood, you missed it. I joked show me the extra parts that did not go back in, never mind.
Still say the bike that had a pre trip inspection/prep within last few days is ready for the long trip.

 

[backinblue]

Naw, I understood, you missed it. I joked show me the extra parts that did not go back in, never mind.
Still say the bike that had a pre trip inspection/prep within last few days is ready for the long trip.

No worries, and thanks. My point being that on any given Sunday, I knew my bike would start and drive as far as I needed it to. It wasn't specific to a certain trip but at any time I knew I could take off for 1000 miles with no issues. It was my baby, just as my boats have been.

 

[moparharn]

I understand what you are saying, but you cannot polish a turd when said turd is a large complex boat. Boats are different than cars or motorcycles. There is just no practical way to do it. Stains, moisture, rust, witness marks, it would be nearly impossible, and even if it were possible there is the sea trial, survey, oil samples, and more that will likely tell some of the story. You cannot fake or polish a painstakingly cared for boat. It either is, or it isn't. This is my opinion. Would you buy the unkept, soiled, disorganized, wet boat all other things being equal? No. You would not. So what are we talking about here?

See that word?
Could well be a polished turd.

 

[psneeld]

You only think so.....

But Its less about the polished "turd" than a gem in the rough you are missing from what I am reading.

Many of us can't afford what you are talking about in the size boat we want, so accepting dirt and grime along with good bones is what we buy and use.

My 20,000 mile example is my boat has done more than a lot of shiny baubles that hardly ever move to become dirty.

So you can love a boat, keep it in good working order but not keep it shiny as some may like.

All things equal?...not likely what you are describing is anywhere near the same price...and only a fool would pay the same.

 

[Simi 60]

I understand what you are saying, but you cannot polish a turd when said turd is a large complex boat. Boats are different than cars or motorcycles. There is just no practical way to do it. Stains, moisture, rust, witness marks, it would be nearly impossible, and even if it were possible there is the sea trial, survey, oil samples, and more that will likely tell some of the story.

If you are that anal about things you will never find one that passes, used things are used.
Over here there was a time when a 2nd hand car would rarely pass an RACQ (Automobile club) inspection at a centre near me. Didn't mean the car was no good, just meant the inspector had an unrealistic view on wear.

As for oil sampling, I wonder what would happen if all oils were dropped and filters replaced prior to sale?

You cannot fake or polish a painstakingly cared for boat. It either is, or it isn't. This is my opinion.

Yep, that is an opinion

Would you buy the unkept, soiled, disorganized, wet boat all other things being equal? .

You are talking opposite ends of the scale, I prefer the spot in the middle

No. You would not

Depends
Ours was a bit rough around the edges cosmetically but we could see past that when no one else could
I know she had deals crash on her several times because she needed paint (eventually) she had some rot in the bulwarks, there were soft spots in the decks, but none of that was structural or affected usage.
Mechanically and structurally she is fine

Because no one could see past the cosmetics, we got a vessel for about 1/20th of the cost of a "shiny" version.

Been out here living the dream for 4 year now with a lifetime of fuel and paid maintenance built into the purchase price, something the shiny version still has to find on top.

 

[SteveK]

Ongoing maintenance is a good thing and should reduce/prevent a bigger job. If not, at least it can be planned.

My bike got a through going over, tune up, oils change, clean and polish followed by road check a week before the long trip. Day before, pre check finds a nail in the back tire picked up from the road check.

My inverter worked great the last time it was needed, charges and maintains house bank, but I notice a fault light, check it over and in the shop it goes. At least ongoing maintenance checks caught it before it needed to invert.

You never know when something needs to fixed unless you routinely look things over.

 

[SteveK]

.............

As for oil sampling, I wonder what would happen if all oils were dropped and filters replaced prior to sale?.

Or just topped up to mask oil loss. Same with coolant.

 

[Northern Spy]

What the heck kind of bikes do you have that needs taking apart every year before riding?

Reminds me of my old Bonneville. Who knows, that bike may have saved my life several times when it refused to start or idle well enough to ride.

Edit: Unless you are talking about 2 strokes. That's different.

 

[moparharn]

I absolutely would buy a gem in the rough. I absolutely would purchase a boat with issues and dirt, but what I am expressing is a preference. All things being equal I prefer the one clearly doted over. In my budget there are not many boats that fit my preferences either, that does not mean I can’t prefer it. The OP was professionally maintained to which I expressed a desire to see a boat lovingly cleaned and cared for. Why is it that you think an inexpensive boat can’t be lovingly cared for? Clean? Spic n span? Doted over? You guys have turned this into some kind of class warfare issue. My budget is dog sh*t. That has nothing to do with it. The guy who dotes over his boat will make sure she gets the best care professional or by his hand.







QUOTE=psneeld;960299]You only think so.....

But Its less about the polished "turd" than a gem in the rough you are missing from what I am reading.

Many of us can't afford what you are talking about in the size boat we want, so accepting dirt and grime along with good bones is what we buy and use.

My 20,000 mile example is my boat has done more than a lot of shiny baubles that hardly ever move to become dirty.

So you can love a boat, keep it in good working order but not keep it shiny as some may like.

All things equal?...not likely what you are describing is anywhere near the same price...and only a fool would pay the same.[/QUOTE]

 

[backinblue]

What the heck kind of bikes do you have that needs taking apart every year before riding?

Reminds me of my old Bonneville. Who knows, that bike may have saved my life several times when it refused to start or idle well enough to ride.

Edit: Unless you are talking about 2 strokes. That's different.

No it was not a 2 stroke and not too old but if you wanted to do the recommended valve clearance adjustment, you needed to disassemble a good portion of the bike. Most people probably don't bother. So while I was at it, I would do other routine maintenance, adjustments, etc.

 

[psneeld]

i absolutely would buy a gem in the rough. I absolutely would purchase a boat with issues and dirt, but what i am expressing is a preference. All things being equal i prefer the one clearly doted over. In my budget there are not many boats that fit my preferences either, that does not mean i can’t prefer it. The op was professionally maintained to which i expressed a desire to see a boat lovingly cleaned and cared for. Why is it that you think an inexpensive boat can’t be lovingly cared for? Clean? Spic n span? Doted over? You guys have turned this into some kind of class warfare issue. My budget is dog sh*t. That has nothing to do with it. The guy who dotes over his boat will make sure she gets the best care professional or by his hand.

Just happen to disagree....with this "the guy who dotes over his boat will make sure she gets the best care professional or by his hand. "

and especially this from your postc #177

"anyone who spends enough time to keep their engine room spotless is going to know more about his boat regardless of who maintains it. "

those 2 concepts can be mutually exclusive or not, but cleanliness is certainly not my first indicator that any important maintenance or proper operation have been done.

I will say it again....

All things equal?...not likely what you are describing is anywhere near the same price...and only a fool would pay the same.

When working for a dealership, way more effort was put into making boats look pretty over mechanically sound. Sales....pure and simple.

 

[rslifkin]

Generally, I aim for keeping things in good mechanical shape, clean-ish, etc. But if I'm going beyond "reasonably organized and clean-ish" to spotless, engine parts perfectly cleaned and paint touched up, etc. then I must have somehow run out of things to do or improve that are either visible from the outside or make a functional difference.

 

[backinblue]

Generally, I aim for keeping things in good mechanical shape, clean-ish, etc. But if I'm going beyond "reasonably organized and clean-ish" to spotless, engine parts perfectly cleaned and paint touched up, etc. then I must have somehow run out of things to do or improve that are either visible from the outside or make a functional difference.

I agree RS. I like to keep things clean and neat, but am not trying for a spotless ER. I think spending that effort on keeping the visible parts of the boat spotless are more important to me.

 

[DDW]

.... but if you wanted to do the recommended valve clearance adjustment, you needed to disassemble a good portion of the bike.

Sounds like a Ducati.

 

[backinblue]

Sounds like a Ducati.

God forbid! My riding buddy had a couple Ducati's. Not that they are bad, but the valve adjusting is a nightmare, even for him, a great mechanic. Mine was a Suzuki, but doesn't mean that valves should be ignored. But the adjusting was much more straightforward.

 

[ancora]

Twenty years ago, we were looking at two boats, same make, same year. One had a genset and was bristol. The other had no gen set and was a fixer-upper. Being a staunch DIYer, we bought the fixer-upper, and never regretted it. To me, being a DIYer means being independent and self reliant, two traits I have passed on to my son.

 

[DDW]

God forbid! My riding buddy had a couple Ducati's. Not that they are bad, but the valve adjusting is a nightmare, even for him, a great mechanic. Mine was a Suzuki, but doesn't mean that valves should be ignored. But the adjusting was much more straightforward.

I had two Ducatis, both desmos (and 6 other motorcycles at the time). Checking the adjustment is pretty easy, but changing it .... takes a bit of time.

 

[backinblue]

I had two Ducatis, both desmos (and 6 other motorcycles at the time). Checking the adjustment is pretty easy, but changing it .... takes a bit of time.

Ducati's are great bikes and I can't say anything bad about them. Although my $6000 Suzuki was about equal to my buddy's $20K Ducati racing down the highway. Regardless, Ducatis are awesome, but my friend who was a very good mechanic, said that shimming and setting valve clearance was a pia. I never witnessed it, but if it was hard for him, it may have been impossible for me. That said, tearing my bike down to maintain it and putting it back together was fun, much like many here working on their boats. I improved most everything that was possible on that bike and enjoyed the hours in the garage doing it. A labor of love on a boat, is similar, but I'm not sure there are similar performance improvements that are as noticeable.