In many places and times alcoholic beverages are just considered food and are part of a meal.
One's personal likes and dislikes should never affect another's life (to a point) as should one's actions never affect another's (to a point).
Thus the mostly emotional discussion of alcohol and the passing on of ideas and "scientific research" often done in a vacuum not accounting for many other human capabilities....that I HAVE seen the scientific research on.
Again I don't condone alcohol use...but I'm neither hypocritical of living life and how it affects others nor do I think I have a clue of what life should be about or like for someone else.
So sad so many comments insinuate that alcohol use is ALWAYS associated with alcohol abuse.
Alcohol use is not always accompanied by alcohol abuse. However, alcohol abuse is always accompanied by alcohol use.
I think we've gotten off into so many different subjects and tried to lump them all as one.
As to what or how much one drinks when it is not in a circumstance of causing harm to others wasn't the initial issue and isn't really the business of any of us. My wife and I drink at home when we don't intend to drive, in fancy restaurants when we don't intend to drive. Although we both had alcoholic fathers we do not oppose all drinking. Quite honestly, we don't even care personally about the drug use of others if it doesn't impact us.
As to guests on our boat, they occasionally drink at night when docked, but then in moderation. We don't serve alcohol while underway simply because we want our guests to be as safe as possible. Now would any of them having a drink or two endanger them? Not likely. We don't fault others who allow guests to drink in moderation while underway but just take a conservative approach ourselves. We don't allow drugs on our boats period as the laws are very strong in that regard.
We strongly oppose operating any motorized vehicle or vessel under the influence as defined by various legal entities. We would personally support much stronger laws and heavier penalties for such but we accept the laws as they are today.
We also strongly oppose anyone carrying passengers for hire, whether car or subway or train or boat or plane drinking or having anything to drink within hours before the start of the trip. They need to be at maximum functionality and no question as to their level of sobriety. Same with drugs.
We personally choose to not consume any alcohol when driving or when planning to drive. That's simply our choice. Not the law and beyond that we can force on others. However, we do hope that all will consider the effect of all they do on their ability to operate boats. That includes alcohol, sleep, health. We know sleep deprivation makes one less able to react and make good judgments and impacts alertness. The more the deprivation the greater the impact. We also know that alcohol consumption has an impact. The law defines the levels acceptable by law. But below that level one can argue. We believe the higher the more affected. Someone blowing a .20 is certainly affected more than a .10. And a .08 more than a .05 which is more than a .02 which is more than a 0. A person at .05 is somewhat impaired at least compared to a 0. Does that make them unsafe? The law in Australia says "yes" and in the US says "no." We would prefer they not operate a boat but it's not our position to force that. On the other hand we fully have the right to tell others not to exceed the legal limits. One doesn't have unlimited rights when those rights start to endanger others.
As to the charts, psneeld so opposes as science. They are estimates arrived at. Are they precise? Not for all. But limits were defined in most areas. I've seen people unfit to drive or even talk after one drink and others hold much more better. But I have seen tests and demonstrations with all levels of alcohol consumers. And in every one of those tests a change in reflexes came quite quickly. When did it make them unsafe as drivers might be argued, but that it impacted them in some way could not be.
I personally choose not to ride even with those who had two glasses of wine with dinner. But that's simply my personal choice. Are they legally under the influence? Probably not. But then I also choose not to ride with someone taking pain medications or who hasn't been to sleep in 36 hours.
We don't fit in the teetotaler group nor do we fit into the drink while operating group. We fit into the time and place group as we've determined is right for ourselves. Oh and as to teetotaler (and yes, that's the correct spelling). The term is a corruption of the term tea totaler and it originated in colonial times when the two choices of beverages were tea or alcohol. So, if one abstained from the drinking of alcoholic beverages then they drank tea totally.
This isn't an all or nothing thing even if we personally choose to make it nothing or if others do as well. But it's also not a "I have a right to do anything I want" thing either. The laws define acceptable levels. Other than that it's personal choice.
The issue of alcoholic came up within the discussion too. I'm not going to get into the determination of when one is an alcoholic or a drug addict or a caffeine addict or anything else. I will however state this for people just to think about. If there is anything I just simply cannot do without, that I'd choose even if it meant something else negative, then that's an issue I should think about. It may harm me or others. If I'd choose work over my child's recital, I may have a problem. If I'd feel deprived by not having a drink, then I may have a problem. If I choose to go to a sports event with a friend on my wife's birthday, then I may have a problem. We all have many habits. But when any of those habits start to interfere with other things in our lives, they may be a problem. (My wife is pointing out one habit or even possible addiction that she could never see being a problem but I'll not type that here). If you feel deprived terribly if you can't have beer with lunch, then think of that.
I once had a potato problem. Yes. I grew up and dinner always had potato in some form. I never had a hamburger without fries. Never ate a sandwich without chips. And dinner had either boiled potatoes, fries, mashed potatoes, or baked potato. Always. I felt deprived if there was no potato. It was intolerable. Was it a bad habit? Yes, ultimately it could be as I aged and couldn't burn all the carbohydrates. My wife and I both made the choice years ago to forego all fries and chips and to have the occasional baked potato and occasionally mashed potatoes. Just decided how to use a more reasonable potato quota. Haven't had fries or chips in over ten years. Just a choice. Now, how does that apply to alcohol? Again our personal choice. We don't drink beer, don't like it. Compare it to something quite offensive. We don't drink nightly. We don't drink while working or driving or during the day. We occasionally drink for special occasions. Our drink of choice is champagne. And if it's just the two of us celebrating our anniversary we may even continue in the bedroom and consume a great deal. Occasionally wine in a fancy restaurant selected by the chef for each course. Hard liquor only rare occasions. We can go weeks without alcohol. Just depends on circumstances. We were just on the boat for two months cruising the PNW and Alaska and didn't have any. Didn't really think about it. We've just chosen the balance that works for us. Just like we did with potatoes. Yes, you can have too much of even a good thing.
Now except when the thread has included some few personal attacks I think this has been an excellent thread and very important topic. Safe operation of our boats. And fact is that alcohol is involved in a lot of unsafe operation. It may be a controversial topic to some, but that doesn't make it unimportant. I think honestly that the TF group is among the safest boat owners so perhaps we can constructively address issues. PWC's and Go Fasts came up. Nothing inherently unsafe about either but they have more than their share of unsafe use. We drive cars that are known for unsafe operation even though we drive ours safely. I see holidays on crowded lakes and bays and I'm concerned. I avoid them. I'd hate to think that one day I might feel that toward boating in general.