Electric toilets

[2dboat]

Our Chris Craft had a Jabsco electric head that was macerating and had a 1-inch discharge line. Lower water use per flush compared to a manual head, so the holding tank did not fill as fast. Very noisy but very reliable. DC Current draw was high at ~18amps but you only ''push the button'' for a few seconds.

 

[Capt.Bill11]

Oh, yeah, that too. I'd forgotten about the chunk-a-chunka-chunka part....

-Chris

They don't do that anymore with the new quiet pumps. In fact they are so quiet now in most installations you can't hear them running.

 

[roguewave]

I pulled our old jabsco? toilet out last summer and replaced it with a fresh water Raritan marine elegance with the optional smart toilet control. Absolutely the best thing I ever did on the boat and Peggy was a big factor in helping me decide. Thank you once again Peggy!

 

[Art]

And btw...I'd bet real money that not one of you knows what the REAL function of the joker valve in a manual toilet is or why it's so important to replace it annually. In fact, I'll send a signed copy of my new book to the first person who does.

Peggie
[/I]

Inside it is a manual for Toilet Humor... Larry the Cable Guy told me that!

 

[Capt Jack]

Hi,

I have read some posts about Vacu Flush Vs Raritan Elegance ( which a lot of people like ) and I noticed in the specs that the Vacu Flush uses a total of 8 amps ( 2 for the toilet and 6 for the vacuum generator) and the Raritan uses 18 amps for a fresh water flush.

I am replacing the manual in our 36 Shannon and Have a concern about the 18 Amp usage in the Raritan.

Any comments ?

Thanks,
Bill R.

Sorry about the late reply - just saw this post. FWIW we just replaced a PHII manual toilet with a marine elegance freshwater flush with the smart control (bought it from HopCar here on the forum - great service!). We absolutely love this toilet. No issues with operation or noise in the middle of the night.

One observation on the replacement - whatever toilet you choose consider replacing the entire waste line as well. We used the Raritan flex hose and have been very happy with it as well. The old hose was hard as a rock and had a LOT of crystals in it that could have been a pain in the future.

John

 

[HeadMistress]

We have a winner!

The main purpose of the joker valve is to seal off the discharge line on the up stroke of the pump. This creates a vacuum which draws the contents of the bowl through the flapper valve into the pump. On the down stroke the flapper valve closes and the joker valve is forced open allowing the waste into the discharge line. John

JOKER VALVE 101
Most people think that the only thing the joker valve does is acts as a check valve to stop backflow from returning to the toilet or odor from the tank from escaping through the toilet. But that's not a joker valve's most important function...in fact, the joker valve is THE single most important replaceable part in a manual toilet.

Here’s how the discharge half of the pump works: On the upstroke of the piston, a vacuum is created in the area beneath the piston. This causes the joker valve to close tightly, and the flapper valve beneath the pump to open, allowing some of the contents of the toilet bowl to be drawn into the bottom half of the pump. Then, on the down stroke of the piston, the flapper valve is slammed shut, and the effluent is forced out of the bottom of the pump, through the joker valve, and off down the line. But when the joker valve becomes worn and/or there's a buildup of sea water minerals on it, it can no longer seal tightly on the upstroke of the piston...less vacuum is generated when you pump it. And as it becomes more worn less and less vacuum, till finally the bowl contents simply move up and down a bit, but don't go anywhere. Sometimes the flapper valve needs to be replaced too, which is why toilets should also be rebuilt at least every 5-6 years as PREVENTIVE MAINTENANCE.

You prob'ly won't notice the loss of efficiency at first because it's so gradual...same as we don't see that we've gotten a little older than we were yesterday when we look in the mirror each morning. But I guarantee you that if it's been two years or longer since you replaced the joker valve, you need to pump the toilet at least 50% more times to move the bowl contents to the tank or all the way out the thru-hull....IF they're getting there at all any more.

Send me your snail address John...book (which includes this information, btw) will go out to you this week.

 

[psneeld]

I personally think Ted (the first response) was correct...just not detailed as most of us understand the basic principles of a pump.

If it just prevents backflow into the pump..then Ted is clearly the winner unless he recants by saying he doesn't understand the basic workings of the hand pump... (highly unlikely)

Just announcing you are the winner doesn't make it so.

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Good explanation for a manual toilet where a one way (joker) valve is necessary to achieve a vacuum and charge by means of a hand pump but no such vacuum is necessary for an electric toilet where such charge is developed by the impeller. No?

If such is the case, the joker valve is only acting as an anti-back flow device in an electric throne I would think.

 

[CPseudonym]

Peggie, you are really not very good at retirement.

 

[Art]

Peggie, you are really not very good at retirement.

Active retirement = Capability to pass on your knowledge! Peggie's a fine example!!

 

[Bill R.]

Thanks for all the reply's, sounds like the Raritan wins !

Thanks,
Bill R.

 

[BandB]

I personally think Ted (the first response) was correct...just not detailed as most of us understand the basic principles of a pump.

If it just prevents backflow into the pump..then Ted is clearly the winner unless he recants by saying he doesn't understand the basic workings of the hand pump... (highly unlikely)

Just announcing you are the winner doesn't make it so.

Wifey B: Omg, call Nascar Scoring. Is it Brennan Poole or Elliot Sadler? Let them both sit at the flagstand until we decide. But this is Peggie's to decide.

Oh, this is so crappy. What a sh...ty situation has developed. Wish we could just flush it all away. Vacuum or hydraulic, I don't care. Was more detail needed or not. Sure glad I'm not the teacher grading the answers. What grade is needed on the answer? Did the first dude get a C and the second an A or was first incomplete. Omfg what a quandary, a bewilderment, a dilemma, a puzzle, a pickle. This whole thing is so septic now.

Meanwhile the cars on the track go round and round but some go really round and round.

 

[psneeld]

Wifey B: Omg, call Nascar Scoring. Is it Brennan Poole or Elliot Sadler? Let them both sit at the flagstand until we decide. But this is Peggie's to decide.

Oh, this is so crappy. What a sh...ty situation has developed. Wish we could just flush it all away. Vacuum or hydraulic, I don't care. Was more detail needed or not. Sure glad I'm not the teacher grading the answers. What grade is needed on the answer? Did the first dude get a C and the second an A or was first incomplete. Omfg what a quandary, a bewilderment, a dilemma, a puzzle, a pickle. This whole thing is so septic now.

Meanwhile the cars on the track go round and round but some go really round and round.

I disagree...open forum...let the masses decide.

The answer was more an essay than multiple choice so interpretation is part of the game.

I am sure Ted knew the right answer as some of us have been installing and repairing marine toilets for over 50 years...as been said many times....the basics of marine plumbing isn't rocket science...it is the subtleties that many miss...thus the need for experts in that field too.

 

[HeadMistress]

I personally think Ted (the first response) was correct...just not detailed as most of us understand the basic principles of a pump.

Sorry, but you'd you be wrong. John is the only one who got it right....he IS the winner.

Peggie
"If you can't explain it to a six year old, you don't completely understand it yourself." --Albert Einstein

 

[psneeld]

Wrong is only your interpretation....I choose to think some here are pretty smart even if they don't have a book out on the subject.

Ted just kept the answer short, describing the vacuum is all just fluff when it comes to that or any other pump and how it is generated.

Backflow could be static or affected by the pumping action...just because he didn't write some textbook answer doesn't mean his answer was incorrect....just didn't spell it out for the people who don't understand the workings of a simple hand pump.

Describing the pumping and flapper really wasn't part of the question.

Is there a reason it is a "joker" valve and not just another flapper valve?

If there is, then I will gladly reverse my opinion.

 

[HeadMistress]

Is there a reason it is a "joker" valve and not just another flapper valve?

A joker valve is a one-way valve with a slit in it that--until it becomes worn--closes completely when suction is applied to it. A flapper valve has only a weighted tongue...it cannot close completely no matter how much suction is applied to it. Therefore, unlike a joker valve, a flapper valve cannot create a vacuum needed to create the pressure to move bowl contents out of the toilet and through the system.

The same thing essentially happens in a bicycle pump... Pulling the handle up against the one way valve in the stem (which is why it's called a "VALVE" stem) creates the vacuum that provides the air pressure on the down stroke.

I disagree...open forum...let the masses decide.

The laws of physics aren't debatable!

Peggie
"If you can't explain it to a six year old, you don't completely understand it yourself." --Albert Einstein

 

[dhays]

Peggie, you are really not very good at retirement.

Thank goodness!

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
So what about the answer to post #38?

 

[psneeld]

So really the purpose is exactly the same...just the efficiency of a joker and flapper are different. I wonder how all those whale gusher pumps installed to empty holding tanks do it.

I will let it go with that so I can keep up with the PMs coming my way....

Give the award to the worthy one.....

 

[HeadMistress]

Greetings,
Good explanation for a manual toilet where a one way (joker) valve is necessary to achieve a vacuum and charge by means of a hand pump but no such vacuum is necessary for an electric toilet where such charge is developed by the impeller. No? If such is the case, the joker valve is only acting as an anti-back flow device in an electric throne I would think.

Correct. Joker valves aren't even necessary in electric toilets....some people remove it and route the head discharge hose straight up to keep water in the bowl "like the toilet at home."

However, I limited the question to the real function of the joker valve in a manual toilet and why it's so important to replace it annually.

And btw, I didn't write the Joker Valve 101 piece. Vic Willman, who was tech services manager at Raritan until retired after 40 years sent it to me several years ago in reply to a question.

 

[HeadMistress]

So really the purpose is exactly the same...just the efficiency of a joker and flapper are different.

No...they have different functions...

I wonder how all those whale gusher pumps installed to empty holding tanks do it.

If you'd bothered to learn how a diaphragm pump works, you wouldn't have to wonder, you'd know.

Give the award to the worthy one....

I will...and that's John. But why are you the only one carrying Ted's water? He can't speak for himself????

(I think I'm starting to remember why I retired......)

Peggie
"If you can't explain it to a six year old, you don't completely understand it yourself." --Albert Einstein

 

[wyoboater]

I have a vacuflush system on mine for both toilets............basically maintenance free, and quiet. Once in a great while, the seal on the toilet bowl doesn't get a perfect seal, so, the vacuum pump cycles. Keeping the seal clean and lubricated now and then cuts that problem down to a bare minimum. I'm very happy with Vacu Flush

 

[johnrupp]

I personally think Ted (the first response) was correct...just not detailed as most of us understand the basic principles of a pump.

If it just prevents backflow into the pump..then Ted is clearly the winner unless he recants by saying he doesn't understand the basic workings of the hand pump... (highly unlikely)

Just announcing you are the winner doesn't make it so.

You really need to lighten up. Ever hear of humor.?

John

 

[Ted]

Just got back on here. Don't worry about it.
Just keep Peggie posting and I'll be happy and content to read.

Thanks

Ted

 

[Art]

Peggie Wins! Period!!


She's forgotten more about marine heads and toilets than most people will ever know. I strongly recommend for everyone to listen and stop correcting our very qualified teacher.


Questions/suggestions are fine. Flat out contradiction... no, no, no!

 

[SteveD]

No to Vacuflush

To the OP: I am currently pulling out a Vacuflush and replacing it with a Marine Elegance. Don't buy a Vacuflush unless you want to spend your vacations chasing down vacuum leaks. Why bother?

 

[TONTOROSS]

I gotta stop redding this stuff after a couple of sunuppers -- it's starting to sound like their talking about the stuff you put in latrines ..

 

[BandB]

To the OP: I am currently pulling out a Vacuflush and replacing it with a Marine Elegance. Don't buy a Vacuflush unless you want to spend your vacations chasing down vacuum leaks. Why bother?

How old was the Vacuflush? I'm hearing recent models give little trouble. I think sometimes on equipment we need to say how old the item we're praising or criticizing is. I make the same mistake by talking about a positive experience with something that is only 2 years old and not saying that.

 

[FF]

The only realistic toilet for a New Boat would be an RV toilet set on top of the tank.

No electric , and the use of a pint a flush instead of quarts or more would mean the tank cam go 10+ times as long before pump or dump is required.

Usually impossible as a retro fit , but should be a concept .

 

[BandB]

The only realistic toilet for a New Boat .

Why do you always feel yours in the "only" way? Much depends on the boat and other circumstances. We are quite happy with both Headhunter which we've used very extensively over the last 3 years and with Masterflush which we've also used. There are many realistic options.