engine block heater (FL135)

[Larry M]

I wouldn’t do anything to the engine other than normal winterization. You’ll be living aboard. Your fresh water system will be more of a concern than the engine. If you can keep you domestic water system from freezing, you’re engine will be fine.

A wifi temperature sensor in the engine room will give you heads up if you’re worried. I doubt you’ll see below freezing if you’re keeping the living space habitable but if it gets into the danger zone, add a small ceramic heater in the engine room. Adding a block heater, can be problematic, even for a professional. Why chance it?

 

[paulga]

I only heard about the benefits, didn't know what problems could there be? Risk of damaging the port hole then coolant leakage problem?

The benefits I heard:
It makes easier to start the engine on a cold morning even in summer. Also functions as a radiant heater.

I wouldn’t do anything to the engine other than normal winterization. You’ll be living aboard. Your fresh water system will be more of a concern than the engine. If you can keep you domestic water system from freezing, you’re engine will be fine.

A wifi temperature sensor in the engine room will give you heads up if you’re worried. I doubt you’ll see below freezing if you’re keeping the living space habitable but if it gets into the danger zone, add a small ceramic heater in the engine room. Adding a block heater, can be problematic, even for a professional. Why chance it?

 

[Larry M]

…The benefits I heard:
It makes easier to start the engine on a cold morning even in summer. Also functions as a radiant heater.

The SP135 was always an easy starting engine. Our last boat spent 5 plus years in Alaska (avatar). The only advise we were told and did, was double up on the starting battery. The SP135 is a great engine imho.

As far as a radiant heat(er) that’s different from helping the engine on a cold start. The block heater won’t give you enough heat to transfer.

Get a couple of extra blankets and have a back up power supply if you lose power. Winters coming.

 

[Bmarler]

I actually prefer to punch a hole with an awl, or a very sharp chisel at an angle so as to give a glancing blow. If you chisel dead on you may push it into the block. An awl Is good dead on, because it’s sharp and pierces easily. The idea is to make a hole you can get a small prying device into and lever the plug out.
Just take care not to score the perimeter of the hole where the plug seals the block.

 

[paulga]

The SP135 was always an easy starting engine. Our last boat spent 5 plus years in Alaska (avatar). The only advise we were told and did, was double up on the starting battery. The SP135 is a great engine imho.

As far as a radiant heat(er) that’s different from helping the engine on a cold start. The block heater won’t give you enough heat to transfer.

Get a couple of extra blankets and have a back up power supply if you lose power. Winters coming.

do you mean back up heat source?
I have not heard of a back up power supply for power outage. the boat has a genset, but I'm going to winterize it with the engine together in a few weeks.

water lines are still the concern. the aft water tank, transom shower and water inlet, and the water lines connecting those, are far from the bilge. i cannot hope the bilge heater at anti freeze setting may reach that far. it's still questionable if the delonghi oil heater in the aft cabin will reach downward to keep those lines warm. and of course these are still assuming no extended power shortage..

 

[Action]

Any thicker grease will work.
Applied to lower parts of the plug to keep metal chips from falling down.
To the bit can work for a bit until the bit heats up.

Action

 

[paulga]

I actually prefer to punch a hole with an awl, or a very sharp chisel at an angle so as to give a glancing blow. If you chisel dead on you may push it into the block. An awl Is good dead on, because it’s sharp and pierces easily. The idea is to make a hole you can get a small prying device into and lever the plug out.
Just take care not to score the perimeter of the hole where the plug seals the block.

do you mean to punch the plug with an awl (and hammer)? guess that also works.

i believe the port size is 1 5/8". is the heater installed also using a hammer? is it an oring or some sealant that keeps the water inside?

 

[Bmarler]

do you mean to punch the plug with an awl (and hammer)? guess that also works.

i believe the port size is 1 5/8". is the heater installed also using a hammer? is it an oring or some sealant that keeps the water inside?

Yes, awl and hammer. Just to rip a hole. Then enlarge the hole to fit a small pry bar.
Usually, the plug heater will have a sealing mechanism that expands as you tighten the mounting fastener(s).

 

[paulga]

Yes, awl and hammer. Just to rip a hole. Then enlarge the hole to fit a small pry bar.
Usually, the plug heater will have a sealing mechanism that expands as you tighten the mounting fastener(s).

is it to apply a controlled force say 50%, repeatedly to rip a hole? then use pry bar to enlarge it and pull the plug out?

is this awl and pry bar set suitable?

 

[Bmarler]

Yes, you have the idea. Those tools should do the job. I prefer an awl with a steel shank through the handle so a hammer blow transfers well to the point, but a wooden one should be ok for light use. You might want to sharpen the pry bar tip to help it rip through and get the entire tip through before levering it out.

 

[paulga]

Yes, you have the idea. Those tools should do the job. I prefer an awl with a steel shank through the handle so a hammer blow transfers well to the point, but a wooden one should be ok for light use. You might want to sharpen the pry bar tip to help it rip through and get the entire tip through before levering it out.

does this pick / hook set work better?

 

[TJM]

I agree with LarryM. I would not remove the freeze plugs. The smallest leak or failure will overheat your engine in the summer due to lost coolant.

Just because people do not list "what can go wrong" or the downsides of doing something a certain way does not mean those bad things will not happen. Living aboard you have to be a skilled / experienced DIY'r or pay somebody every time something goes not as planned. I also would absolutely NOT winterize the Genny. What will you do if a noreaster storm comes in and you loose power for 3 days? You will need to protect your investment and run the genny for warmth. Can your battery bank handle an extended bilge pump cycling if you have a leak somewhere? Prop shaft ?
I also use remote engine room monitoring (Govee sensors connect via Wifi) on my Iphone.

I do not winterize my main engines in case I need to shake the boat to break ice. Starting them once a month is all I do. Engine room is kept at 50°F

As far as manufacturers recommendations on their products? We live in a society where everybody wants to sue for liability. Walas heaters had shown where suggested exhaust locations were on the boat. They chose an easy boat model with not much into other considerations. You have to understand the risks of installations, fuel flow, exhaust piping, access and don't forget CO poisoning.

 

[paulga]

I agree with LarryM. I would not remove the freeze plugs. The smallest leak or failure will overheat your engine in the summer due to lost coolant.

Just because people do not list "what can go wrong" or the downsides of doing something a certain way does not mean those bad things will not happen. Living aboard you have to be a skilled / experienced DIY'r or pay somebody every time something goes not as planned. I also would absolutely NOT winterize the Genny. What will you do if a noreaster storm comes in and you loose power for 3 days? You will need to protect your investment and run the genny for warmth. Can your battery bank handle an extended bilge pump cycling if you have a leak somewhere? Prop shaft ?
I also use remote engine room monitoring (Govee sensors connect via Wifi) on my Iphone.

I do not winterize my main engines in case I need to shake the boat to break ice. Starting them once a month is all I do. Engine room is kept at 50°F

As far as manufacturers recommendations on their products? We live in a society where everybody wants to sue for liability. Walas heaters had shown where suggested exhaust locations were on the boat. They chose an easy boat model with not much into other considerations. You have to understand the risks of installations, fuel flow, exhaust piping, access and don't forget CO poisoning.

with engine and genny not winterized, if gen cannot start and mechanic can only come the next day, how to heat the bilge and water lines ?

 

[Bmarler]

does this pick / hook set work better?

not for this. that's not to say a pick set like that won't be handy, because it definitely will. i use picks like that all the time for pulling hoses and o-rings, etc...picks aren't for piercing metal, they're too weak.

 

[Bmarler]

with engine and genny not winterized, if gen cannot start and mechanic can only come the next day, how to heat the bilge and water lines ?

if you do in fact winterize the genset, make sure all you need to do to start it is to open the raw water intake and crank it. that way, it's protected if you don't need it, but it's ready if you do.
this first winter is a learning year for you. you'll gain some experience as time goes by, and you'll be better prepared mentally for the things that come up. i'm on the west coast where winters aren't generally as hard, so i don't winterize. i also live aboard so the spaces are kept warm.
east coast is a completely different animal, so take advice from people local to you, they've lived through it already.

 

[vancouvertechie]

I have 2 bilge heaters that work great. I have one inbetween both engines in the Tollycraft and another in the lazerette for the generator

I use Victron's remote management to see the power consumption when the come on and with the current temps outside. Also, with Victron's BMS, I can see the current battery temps in which I calculate the engine room temperature.

I have an alarm set to alert me when grid power is no longer available and I can plan accordingly.

VT

 

[Figment]

I have 2 bilge heaters that work great. I have one inbetween both engines in the Tollycraft and another in the lazerette for the generator

I use Victron's remote management to see the power consumption when the come on and with the current temps outside. Also, with Victron's BMS, I can see the current battery temps in which I calculate the engine room temperature.

I have an alarm set to alert me when grid power is no longer available and I can plan accordingly.

VT

This seems so much more sensible than heating the engine blocks.

 

[firehoser75]

I agree with Figment. Personally, I would be hesitant to "punch out" a freeze plug and install a "block heater". It is way easier to install an oil pan heater (eg. Wolverine 250 watt) that will do the job very well (keep the engine warm, curtail the development of rust, make for easier starts with less smoking, will radiate some heat into the ER, and will use less power (draw)). Most block heaters draw between 1200 - 1500 watts or half of the available power from a 30 amp power source. Check out sbmar.com under Tony's Tips for an article regarding this very subject. Tony Athens is considered a "guru" of marine diesel engines with over 35 years of EXPERIENCE, not just a "couch potato" book learned engineer with little to no practical experience.
I installed a Wolverine heater on my Cummins 6BTA and it worked great as described above. Relatively easy install too.

 

[Circumnavigator]

We kept Fintry in Boston Harbor for 16 years. Slightly colder climate and steel boat. Never winterized the engines. Basically, you will find that the water in which you are sitting will probably never get below 34F or so. Also remember that the water on the raw water side of the engines is salt -- freezes at about 28F.



If you get an extended power outage and you are relying on electricity for heat, you will need to worry about the potable water plumbing, as much of it is above the waterline and the cabin could get down below freezing. The head(s) will have salt water in them, but you should keep an eye on them.



Jim

 

[paulga]

We kept Fintry in Boston Harbor for 16 years. Slightly colder climate and steel boat. Never winterized the engines. Basically, you will find that the water in which you are sitting will probably never get below 34F or so. Also remember that the water on the raw water side of the engines is salt -- freezes at about 28F.



If you get an extended power outage and you are relying on electricity for heat, you will need to worry about the potable water plumbing, as much of it is above the waterline and the cabin could get down below freezing. The head(s) will have salt water in them, but you should keep an eye on them.



Jim

yes, water system is the worry especially the lines near the stern.

do you winterize the whole plumbing system?

 

[TJM]

The question is do you wish to use the water in your boat over the winter? I personally need to use water for cooking and showering so I make sure the hoses in the boat don't freeze.
If you are shutting the whole water system down, the best way is to drain it. That is the best solution for inexperienced seaman. Drain the water and open fittings and faucets, hot water tanks etc.....
The issue with water freezing is that just before it freezes it expands. You wont notice any cracks until it thaws out. As long as you provide a space for the water to expand you are safe. Adding in pink antifreeze lowers your risk. Any fittings that I loosen / disconnect I place some yellow tape around them as a reminder in the spring to re attach them.
As others have said, the outside water line will not be below freezing.

 

[paulga]

The question is do you wish to use the water in your boat over the winter? I personally need to use water for cooking and showering so I make sure the hoses in the boat don't freeze.
If you are shutting the whole water system down, the best way is to drain it. That is the best solution for inexperienced seaman. Drain the water and open fittings and faucets, hot water tanks etc.....
The issue with water freezing is that just before it freezes it expands. You wont notice any cracks until it thaws out. As long as you provide a space for the water to expand you are safe. Adding in pink antifreeze lowers your risk. Any fittings that I loosen / disconnect I place some yellow tape around them as a reminder in the spring to re attach them.
As others have said, the outside water line will not be below freezing.

Thanks for the hint.
I need to use the water daily.
The lines in the galley and forward head, salon and aft cabins have heaters nearby. But transom shower and lines around there are farther away from the heater . Then again when power goes out indefinitely, all lines are in danger.

 

[Bmarler]

Maybe think about installing valves so you can shut off the supply to the transom shower and drain the lines. Then insulate the lines you think would be prone to freezing.
Some marinas will shut off the dock water supply when freezing temps hit, some don’t and open a tap slightly, way downstream, to keep water flowing, preventing freezing.
I find that our dock water doesn’t freeze up till the daytime temps are below freezing for a few days. If it gets really bad, we’ll open a tap on the boat and let it flow a little. (We’re on a hose from the dock so we don’t have to fill the tanks every week.)
You’re right to be concerned about freezing, but you may also be overthinking it.
There’s usually some warning before a cold snap to allow you to prepare.

 

[TJM]

Do you know what your marina does in the winter for dock water? I would not assume they keep it on. At my marina, they will be shutting it off and draining the lines in a few weeks. I have 300' feet of hose to fill my fresh water tanks every other week from a heated building. I pick the sunny days to fill if I can.

 

[paulga]

Dock water was shut off on 11/1. Marina does not run a submerged hose to supply water. Neighbors connect hoses to get water from lawn spigots.

Do you know what your marina does in the winter for dock water? I would not assume they keep it on. At my marina, they will be shutting it off and draining the lines in a few weeks. I have 300' feet of hose to fill my fresh water tanks every other week from a heated building. I pick the sunny days to fill if I can.

 

[Larry M]

Maybe think about installing valves so you can shut off the supply to the transom shower and drain the lines…

That’s what we did on 2 of our boats. Those lines will freeze first and if they freeze and break, you loose your domestic water system. We were full time live a-boards in the PNW for several winters. We never had temperatures as low as NYC gets in the winter and we still had dock mates that lost cockpit water lines.

 

[paulga]

I have located the aft water tank and water lines to the transom shower. The rear tank is tucked under the bed in the aft cabin. It is empty and shut off. The water lines are already insulated for the whole visible sections in the cabin, however there are no separation valves.

pic 1 is the water fill hose to the rear tank, it's supposed to be empty, so it's not in risk of freezing



pic 2 is the rear tank under the aft cabin bed (empty)



transom shower (white box in the right) and water inlet (left most hose in the pic). they are filled with water, so they are the concern.



supply hoses to the transom shower (upper: cold, lower: hot)


the supply water lines are insulated entirely. where can a separation valve fit?



access to the transom shower from the aft cabin, this is behind a drawer. does not provide for enough clearance to do anything.

Maybe think about installing valves so you can shut off the supply to the transom shower and drain the lines. Then insulate the lines you think would be prone to freezing.
Some marinas will shut off the dock water supply when freezing temps hit, some don’t and open a tap slightly, way downstream, to keep water flowing, preventing freezing.
I find that our dock water doesn’t freeze up till the daytime temps are below freezing for a few days. If it gets really bad, we’ll open a tap on the boat and let it flow a little. (We’re on a hose from the dock so we don’t have to fill the tanks every week.)
You’re right to be concerned about freezing, but you may also be overthinking it.
There’s usually some warning before a cold snap to allow you to prepare.

 

[paulga]

I wonder if there is some tool that detects nuts under the foam insulation? like stud finder for drywall. the existing plumbing connections would allow adding valves.