Engine Personalities

[Ken E.]

A big part of the Volvo love at that time was service. There was an outstanding mechanic in Dillingham that kept a ton of parts on hand for the 70 series engines that many were running. He had the ability to build a complete engine on the spot if needed. Those guys are few and far between. My recent experience with Volvo have led me to say never again.

Thanks for that info. I didn't know that was the situation. Downtime can ruin a fishing season and support is everything.

 

[menzies]

What year and model boat was this?

2003 Seahorse 52.

Both the hull and engine surveys are on my website under the Sonas tab.

The hull surveyor said 6BT.

The engine surveyor said 6BTA. Hence the discrepancy in my posts.

http://atanchor.com/sonas/

 

[menzies]

FWIW - I believe the 370's were rated at 3,000 and the 330's were rated at 2,800.

Interestingly when I go back and look at the hull and engine surveys the hull surveyor said 3000 rpms, and the engine surveyor said 2800!

And we pay good money for this!

 

[FlyWright]

Sometimes, access is impacted by boat design. Seahorse packs a lot into a package. Was there easy access?

I was in Carquinez Coot's ER and it was tight, but it was 35, not 52. I imagine access was not an issue in the 52, right?

 

[menzies]

Sometimes, access is impacted by boat design. Seahorse packs a lot into a package. Was there easy access?

I was in Carquinez Coot's ER and it was tight, but it was 35, not 52. I imagine access was not an issue in the 52, right?

Plenty of access.

however from the engine survey:

The sea trail could not be completed because the Port engine shut down from
excessive fuel restriction. 2”-5” vacuum is normal. Anything over 7” suggest dirty
filters or a blockage in the fuel lines, tanks or valves. The Port and Starboard
cooling systems need to be serviced before another sea trial can be performed.

Have a read, another TFer bought her and...:

https://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/s3/new-seahorse-52-owner-26793.html

https://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/s3/boatyards-savannah-ga-26871.html

https://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/s3/sea-chest-help-seahorse-52-a-27354.html#post463994

 

[firehoser75]

Ben,
Cummins generally makes good engines (there have been the odd model that were not as well respected so check info for each one). The older 6BT(A) is one of the most still in use models of any engine. Many were used in the marine application and many were used in Dodge pickups. Parts are relatively inexpensive and are still widely available with many mechanics very familiar with these engines.

I know another NT owner who has over 10,000 hours on his 2000 Cummins 6BTA engine and it is still going strong. Preventative maintenance is critical.
Weak points to these engines (Cummins 6BTA:

First, the Sherwood seawater pump. For the aftercooled version, you do need to remove the forward port engine mount to change the pump. Replace it with an SMX brand pump sold by Seaboard Marine (sbmar.com), which is a great source of info on diesels especially Cummins.
If the engine is aftercooled, these need special attention, but most saltwater cooled aftercoolers do as well. They should be taken apart, cleaned, new O rings, GREASED, and pressure tested every 2-3 years.
Idler pulley bolt. Should be replaced per info on sbmar.com. They are a weak point.

Do not "overfill" the oil sump. Fill using only 13 quarts and prefill the filter. Keep at that level.
Airsep CCR system could be replaced with a different system (Envirovent from sbmar) allowing for better crankcase ventilation with less oil going back through the turbo.
The air preheat system (cold starting) can "put a large load" on the alternator prior to a full warmup. Install a switch to enable manual control of this "automatic" system.

That is all I can think of. Most of these "issues" are related to marinization or "add ons" and not to the engine itself, and are relatively inexpensive "fixes".

For any engine, check out the exhaust system layout. Many are poorly done and can lead to expensive problems "down the line".

Hope that helps with Cummins (6BTA).

 

[Simi 60]

Nothing runs like a Deere!

Based on their tractor engines, will run forever if well maintained. And you will find parts easily.

Interesting that JD use Cummins QSX 15 in their more recent tractor

https://www.dieselarmy.com/news/cummins-qsx15-powers-new-john-deere-9r-series-tractors/

Probably their most reliably engine was in the JD8960 tractor.
This was powered by an 855 Cummins
https://www.farmtender.com.au/listi...0-john-deere-tractor-370-hp-with-1000-rpm-pto

 

[Steve91T]

I think this thread is turning into a “which is the best oil brand” thread.

So I’ll add my engine plan and reason before it gets shut down.

Like I said already, I have Lehman 225’s. If someday I need to re power, it’ll be with a couple of 5.9 12 valve (6bt) P pump engines, possibly with compound turbos. These engines were in just about everything from dump trucks to pick ups to large water pumps.

They can be built to handle 400+ hp sustained. It’d be nice to have the option to actually get up and go.

Either that, or I’d use 4bt’s. Smaller, more engine room, low hp and good for a 8.5 kt large boat.

Most likely I’d be going with option 2 because a pair of built engines would only be if I won the lotto.

 

[menzies]

Interesting that JD use Cummins QSX 15 in their more recent tractor

https://www.dieselarmy.com/news/cummins-qsx15-powers-new-john-deere-9r-series-tractors/

Three engines offered, the Cummins and two JDs. The author choose to profile the Cummins.

 

[menzies]

.... before it gets shut down.

Why would it get shut down?

 

[FlyWright]

One thing I think I'd grow tired of in a Lehman 120 is the 50 hr fuel pump oil change. That's not a problem in the 135 I hear.

I loved the story from Brian at British Marine in Oakland, our local Perkins engine shop owner. He was on a trip down the coast from NorCal to Los Angeles when they lost oil pressure on their only 4.236 Perkins for some undetermined amount of time during a midnight watch by the first mate who fell asleep at the wheel. They had lost an oil cooler and pissed most the oil into the bilge. The pressure gage was zero but the engine still ran.

After immediate shut down, they added all the engine oil they had but it wasn't enough. They added a gallon or so of cooking oil to get them to their destination...another 30 hours at sea. The engine ran fine all the way.

When they got there, they changed the oil for the return trip. At home, Brian dismantled the engine and everything speced out just fine...so he put it back together as it was.

It never skipped a beat.

Gotta love big old HUGE, mechanical, slow-turning, low-HP, natural diesels. They can take a lickin' and keep on tickin'!

 

[markpierce]

Sometimes, access is impacted by boat design. Seahorse packs a lot into a package. Was there easy access?

I was in Carquinez Coot's ER and it was tight, but it was 35, not 52. I imagine access was not an issue in the 52, right?

Yes, a little tight, but very accessible and not requiring crawling. My engine mechanic (recently retired) loved working on my single JD 4045. Battery boxes on either side make for handy seats.

 

[O C Diver]

I think this thread is turning into a “which is the best oil brand” thread.

So I’ll add my engine plan and reason before it gets shut down.

Like I said already, I have Lehman 225’s. If someday I need to re power, it’ll be with a couple of 5.9 12 valve (6bt) P pump engines, possibly with compound turbos. These engines were in just about everything from dump trucks to pick ups to large water pumps.

They can be built to handle 400+ hp sustained. It’d be nice to have the option to actually get up and go.

Either that, or I’d use 4bt’s. Smaller, more engine room, low hp and good for a 8.5 kt large boat.

Most likely I’d be going with option 2 because a pair of built engines would only be if I won the lotto.

I had considered a 4BT for my boat when repowering. Depending on the unit they can vibrate quite badly. John Deere overcomes much of that with counter balance shafts. The 6BT is much smoother. I like my Deere, but if I had found a 6B non turbo.....

Ted

 

[FlyWright]

I will be the first to admit that the Perkins 4.236 shakes...it's part of her peccadilloes that I have grown to love. But when the pair are in harmony frequency, it's music to my ears and bones.

 

[menzies]

I had considered a 4BT for my boat when repowering. Depending on the unit they can vibrate quite badly. John Deere overcomes much of that with counter balance shafts. The 6BT is much smoother. I like my Deere, but if I had found a 6B non turbo.....

Ted

Did you look at Aqua Drives when you were considering the change? Re helping trans to shaft alignment?

http://www.aquadriveusa.com/system/system.htm

 

[O C Diver]

Did you look at Aqua Drives when you were considering the change? Re helping trans to shaft alignment?

Welcome to Aquadrive

No, I was reusing the shaft and transmission and using an Aqua Drive would have located it under the generator.

As for alignment, my shaft is 2.5" in diameter, 13' long, an 8" stern tube cutlass bearing, a dripless seal, and has a 28" propeller on it. I can grab the shaft with one hand and turn it. It's not a perfect alignment, but you won't get it any closer.

Ted

 

[Portage_Bay]

I'm not well versed on the different HP ratings of 3208s. The high HP one(s) don't seem to have as good a life expectancy and reputation, especially if pushed hard most of the time.

Having helped my buddy with his twin 3208s, because they're a V engine, they occupy a lot of space in his engine room. Not fun getting to the outboard side of his engines. I wouldn't rule them out, but would view the outboard accessibility before falling in love with the boat.

Ted

As with many things on many boats. It all depends. On a Californian 42 LRC with twin 3208s there's plenty of room to service the outboard sides of the engines. Because the fuel tanks are under the aft berths. Fuel tanks in the engine room with V8s? Yes, very tight, can be almost impossible to maintain.

 

[Zoar]

I have twin Lehmans. They start. They run. They work.

They sip diesel as long as I keep the boat under about 7.6 KNOTS.

Me like.

 

[backinblue]

Curious why Yanmar gets a bad rap? Granted my boat is on the smaller side than many here, but it starts the instant the key is moved, never even hear a single crank, it's like turning on a light switch. For its size, I believe it is more efficient and lighter weight than most as well as lower emissions. Never detect any smoke even at WOT.

 

[dway]

Hi All -

We are looking for the next Trawler, but somewhat slowly.
Engines will be 60% of the decision.

Like Lehman and Perkins.
Neutral on Cummins and Cats
Avoiding Volvos, Yanmars.

Not a clue about Detroits (but they seem to last a long time!), or John Deere (my mechanic speaks well of them.)

I currently have gasoline engines and can cruise at a thirsty 27 knots. Want more cabin and don't mind 8 knots.

I see alot of Cummins and want to know more, and maybe am giving Volvo a bad rap, but have heard some things (cost, finicky reliability).

Thanks for any war stories or good info!!

I have also heard some folks saying bad things about Volvos but from my experience, I've had a Beneteau 44 Swift Trawler for 3 years and put 700 hours on the engines in all kinds of conditions and NEVER had a problem. They just purr day in and day out. D4's, 300hp

 

[Robbc49]

EnginebChoices

I’m a Gold Looper, having logger over 8,000 miles in my CHB Eurosedan with twin Ford Lehman 225 Turbos. At 8kts cruising, burn was 3.4 gal per hour combined. I was concerned that Ford Lehman was no longer in business, but parts are plentiful and American Diesel was a great resource. My engines purred with about 3,400 hours. No leaks, a little smoke and a little oil burn but super reliable. And very smooth. Just make sure you change the oil as recommended along with filters. I can’t stress this too much. I can’t comment about any other brands since I don’t have first hand experience but I’ve heard great things about the Deere’s and Detroit Diesels. My 2 cents. Good luck with your choice.

 

[DryGuy]

Put Perkins lower on that list

Having had six Perkins and one Cummins -- the Cummins wins hands down -- easy to work on and parts are reasonable and readily available. Currently have a 370 hp Volvo and do not see myself going that way again. Runs well but you are really captive on parts and service.

 

[Brooksie]

60% of your choice will be based on the engine ???
You may be passing up some good boats for nothing. Reminds me of my wife used car shopping. Well not quite as silly as passing on a good car b/c it is not blue but you know what I mean.
I always do my own engine work so parts availability and price as well as simplicity (no special tools) are important to me. My friend, on the other hand, might decide based on the number of miles a qualified mechanic must travel.
Any of the a fore mentioned diesels could serve you well if it has been and continues to be maintained properly.

 

[Tim]

I have a single cat 3208 in my gb42 and think
it’s great. Twin cats would be crowded. They are large engines. For twins the Cummins would be a better choice or Lehman’s.

 

[NCheaven]

The good news is that you're near great trawler water - Albemarle and Pamlico Sounds and their feeder rivers. Eastern NC clearly is small trawler heaven. We enjoy short trips to Bath, Belhaven and Oriental - River Dunes, looking to range farther this fall.

I bought my Camano in Bristol, RI, and brought it down the east coast with the help of the seller for 4 days, and a Chesapeake Bay friend the rest of the way. That cruise helped me appreciate how wonderfully undeveloped our NC shores are, and that we have so many great cruising destinations like Edenton, Elizabeth City, New Bern, Bath, Ocracoke, etc. Slips, fuel, annual dockage is also much less expensive than the Chesapeake, etc.

On to engines. Most Camanos have Volvo TAMD41D-P-A 200 hp turbos. I love mine, so reliable, runs great. There are a few Yanmars, etc, in the last year or so of production. I've heard that this model is used in many commercial applications very successfully.

But, I hear the other TF posters, and admire how you are assimilating information. You'll make a good choice, and you already know it's perhaps 70% about fuel and filters. My mistake was not getting the fuel polished and filters changed when I bought it - boat had been used infrequently in the two years before I bought it. Very happy with Camano and Volvo other than that.

I'm sure all of us look forward to hearing about your choice of boat and engine. Best wishes!

 

[Ben]

Having had six Perkins and one Cummins -- the Cummins wins hands down -- easy to work on and parts are reasonable and readily available. Currently have a 370 hp Volvo and do not see myself going that way again. Runs well but you are really captive on parts and service.

This is what I like about Cummins. Commonality. Lots of Cummins. Also lots of Lehmans. And almost as many Perkins. My gut feel from owning and knowing owners is I’m seeing Perkins less frequently.

Volvo, Yanmar, the owners I have known have mentioned problems and big bucks. Not disparaging either, my experience is not universal, but people I know have griped more than praised.

The Cats I see are more in the high speed boats. Sportfishers and such. Bertram, Viking, Hatteras. Not my performance envelope.

I like Lehman because you just turn it on and go. Have been told and observed they can be a little leaky, but not too bad in my experience.

 

[Ben]

60% of your choice will be based on the engine ???
You may be passing up some good boats for nothing. Reminds me of my wife used car shopping. Well not quite as silly as passing on a good car b/c it is not blue but you know what I mean.
I always do my own engine work so parts availability and price as well as simplicity (no special tools) are important to me. My friend, on the other hand, might decide based on the number of miles a qualified mechanic must travel.
Any of the a fore mentioned diesels could serve you well if it has been and continues to be maintained properly.

I pretty much know, the boat will have to be tremendous and for a low price for me to take a Volvo. Also, no way for a Yanmar. My money, my choice.

 

[Ben]

I’m a Gold Looper, having logger over 8,000 miles in my CHB Eurosedan with twin Ford Lehman 225 Turbos. At 8kts cruising, burn was 3.4 gal per hour combined. I was concerned that Ford Lehman was no longer in business, but parts are plentiful and American Diesel was a great resource. My engines purred with about 3,400 hours. No leaks, a little smoke and a little oil burn but super reliable. And very smooth. Just make sure you change the oil as recommended along with filters. I can’t stress this too much. I can’t comment about any other brands since I don’t have first hand experience but I’ve heard great things about the Deere’s and Detroit Diesels. My 2 cents. Good luck with your choice.

A mechanic told me the Deere is a very industrial (bullet-proof) engine. I am open to a John Deere and have googled the specs and maintenance manuals. One for sale in my town but wife is not liking the boat it’s in.

I’m for going deep into the Bahamas and Caribbean, she is more for coastal cruising port-to-port. ??*

Deep Caribbean may be the next “great loop”. Especially if Cuba gets more open via US laws and improved logistics/fuel. Honestly, I would sell my house and go now.

 

[FoxtrotCharlie]

We have twin Lehman 135 NA's. Love them. Fuel efficient, both crank immediately and run well. Easy to maintain. And AL, no, we don't have to change the injector oil on the 135's.

 

[Martin J]

I think you got it reasonably right in my view.
I assuming non turbo models, It seems to me that Turbo's are just to expensive to repair and maintain / problematic.
Lehman's Run forever. tough, dependable. Great support, moderate price parts.
Cats . Low hp models(less stress) 3208NA Tough ,Dependable, Reasonable support / parts availability.
Detroits. Old design, poor consumption, constant battle solving oil leaks. I was never happy with mine.
These are the makes I have had, cannot comment on the other makes, it would be hearsay.

In generators, must be Kubota powered, much quieter