Engine reliability

[FF]

"The most reliable engine will be the one that you maintain and become familiar with."

True,, BUT , to properly maintain an engine Da Book, the workshop manual is required .

Most owner manuals will be fine for lube oil info, but sadly lacking on long term lubrication/maint requirements such as how to put the engine to bed , not only for a 6 month seasonal storage, but for a month or two out of service.

First "look for" on a boat you might purchase is for Da Book, it means the owner was smart enough to have it on board , should it be needed.

 

[Cigatoo]

"The most reliable engine will be the one that you maintain and become familiar with."

True,, BUT , to properly maintain an engine Da Book, the workshop manual is required .

Most owner manuals will be fine for lube oil info, but sadly lacking on long term lubrication/maint requirements such as how to put the engine to bed , not only for a 6 month seasonal storage, but for a month or two out of service.

First "look for" on a boat you might purchase is for Da Book, it means the owner was smart enough to have it on board , should it be needed.

A shop manual has always been the first purchase after the initial purchase for me. A parts catalog when available is always extremely helpful. Really helps when learning how things work. I love pictures

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Re: Post #32. "I love pictures". FINALLY!!! Someone who admits they don't look at Playboy Magazine just for the articles...

 

[Simi 60]

Simi 60 wrote;
“As long as you live near a service centre” re halving a certain brand of engine. Not true. My engine support is in southern BC Canada and Seattle Wa. Not a problem. Call-in what you need and it will arrive on a float plane, at the PO or some other place but you will get what you need.

.

The ones I was talking about didn't have the luxury of float plane service.
For them it was flying parts out from Australia or NewZealand, clearing customs, inter island ferries then weeks later they got the parts.

They also made mention of propriety Volvo devices to read and reset error codes in the electronics and having to fly in Volvo techs for that. Not to sure of the finer details, it was many years ago and meant little to me, I shun electronic engines.

I do know they replaced with basic cats, same model as the earthmoving equipment used in the area, easy parts easy service.

 

[ancora]

I love my VOLVOs but hate the VOLVO lack of support for their engines. It's a shame when a manufacturer puts out a superior product and then refuses back it up with a reliable support system. At least my engines are mechanical... horror stories abound on the electronic ones.

 

[Cigatoo]

“Re: Post #32. "I love pictures". FINALLY!!! Someone who admits they don't look at Playboy Magazine just for the articles...”

Maybe I should run for office.

 

[RT Firefly]

 

[sunchaser]

Engine reliability and parts sourcing are normally two different things. An example - let's say you have a raw water pump with 2500 hours and all that has been to it for 15 years or so is to change impellers.

Your antenna should be up. The pump is due for failure and should be totally rebuilt or better yet thrown away for a new one. It fails at the worst possible time and you are stranded. Is the engine unreliable or the owner cheap, lazy, unknowing or stubborn.

If not the raw water pump how about lift pump, hoses, belts, after cooler servicing, coolant pump or balky starter? These types of stranding failures have little to do with the base engine, they are owner must do PMs.

In this digital age of parts sourcing and air freight, your local service center is not always inventorying low volume parts. They are far away but readily available. If not readily available anywhere and it is a long out of date Brand X, tough choices need to be made. When boat shopping, pick an engine model that is easily supported and will be for a long while.

 

[DavidM]

One point that hasn't been made in this thread is that the guts of marine engines rarely fail without lots and lots of warning: hard starting, lots of smoke at idle, etc.

The things that do fail suddenly that could leave you temporarily stranded are the peripherals and many of these were provided by the installer, not the engine manufacturer.

Things like fuel and electrical wiring systems fail much more often than the guts fail. External engine specific systems like starters and fuel pumps probably cause the next most common failures and those are made by third parties like Bosch, Delco and Hitachi, not the engine manufacturer.

Of course poor installation and maintenance is the biggest cause of being stranded and that has little to do with the engine manufacturer.

All of which says that discussing engine reliability by brand is meaningless as Eric pointed out above.


Also in so far as maintainability, not reliability is concerned, access is the biggest factor, and whether it is turbocharged and intercooled or not is the second biggest, neither of which have much to do with brand.


David

 

[FF]

'The pump is due for failure and should be totally rebuilt or better yet thrown away for a new one. It fails at the worst possible time and you are stranded.'

An owner interested in ultimate reliability might consider installing a new pump , purchasing a rebuild set (impeller, seals and bearings ) and rebuilding the old unit.

After a hundred hours , remove the new unit , and free the impeller , and install the old unit.

You now have a tested new unit , that you KNOW will fit and operate , and with all new parts in the old unit , operating long term would not be a big deal.

Same for alternators , if you remove the stock crap auto brain regulated unit , keep it with a new belt when installing a bigger smarter marine unit.

Sadly at times folks are prepared with belts , filters and replacement parts that do not fit.

 

[Bajabuzz]

Thank you all for your help. My last boat had poor accessibility on the outboard side. Luckily I did not have to do anything over there during my time. Bigger boats seem to have better access. I have seen a few boats online with full stadium up head room in engine room and that seems to big a big bonus.
I plan to carry a large spares package so I can service and repair most of the peripherals. Once I settle on a boat I can start gathering spares and learn more about it's common issues.

 

[Rcd]

Motor choice

Less than two years ago I started the same process of looking for the perfect diesel. Big, small, Cat, Cummins etc., even considered the famous DDs, but then there was the magic formula for all diesels, once you go beyond one horse power per cubic inch the motor life begins to diminish. Example, even the historic DDs 671s only go 1500 hrs if pushed to 485 hp. yet a 200 hp will outlive the owner. Do your home work, don't over power if it is not needed etc. In my part the country (Chesapeake Bay) the more modern Cats and Cummins appear to be the most reliable and reasonable on labor and parts. I chose Cummins and happy. Good luck.

 

[twiisted71]

A couple of points:

Perkins 6.354.4 range 4 engine with all in one "Manicooler". This is/was a huge screw-up in design for a legendarily reliable engine that is typically good for 10s of thousands of hours in slow pleasure boat use. The absurd manicooler however is obsolete and essentially the only part of the engine that will deteriorate. Supposedly when they designed this they changed the head so that old style manifolds will not work! I have nothing but good to say about the older style 6.354 engines though!

Personally knew several folks who tried the 6 cylinder Volvos (the kind that appear to have individual "intake" tracts) in the late '80s in shrimping boats. Very unreliable and EXPENSIVE and hard to get parts.

Don't place too much emphasis on economy. Personally I would 10 times rather have an all mechanical old school 210 6BT Cummins than a brand new electronic Yanmar that gets 20% better GPH burn. A plugged fuel filter, raw water impeller, or "fan" belt will cover 99% of the reasons a quality older diesel would have issues and all are easily owner solved in less than half an hour for less than $20. That is peace of mind and it is PRICELESS when you are days from any help with potentially dangerous weather development. A broken or corroded bit of solder on an electronic injection pump's computer board would likely strand the majority of pleasure boaters. And yes, I know about twin engines and get-home auxiliaries.

These are just my opinions. Take them for what you paid for them!

 

[dbaoter]

You might look at the Canal Du Midi, Southern France. There are two companies that rent house boats. No experience needed. This is a great time, floating thru Southern France. Lots of other houseboats as well. Get a discount for renting more than one boat.

 

[Exctyengr]

I have owned or used extensively Cummins (6BT), Perkins, Volvos, Lehman, and Cats. I strongly prefer the Cummins for reliability, ease of maintenance and parts availability (Dodge trucks use the Cummins engine and you can get many parts directly from your local Dodge dealer). Cats are great especially the 3208's and would work in a vessel your size. Lehmans are good, parts are still available. Volvo's are weird, strange gaskets and the parts are each custom made by Swedish elves who are very, very proud of their work. Expect high parts prices and lengthy delays.
Good luck.

 

[MOJO]

Don't place too much emphasis on economy. Personally I would 10 times rather have an all mechanical old school 210 6BT Cummins than a brand new electronic Yanmar that gets 20% better GPH burn. A plugged fuel filter, raw water impeller, or "fan" belt will cover 99% of the reasons a quality older diesel would have issues and all are easily owner solved in less than half an hour for less than $20. That is peace of mind and it is PRICELESS when you are days from any help with potentially dangerous weather development. A broken or corroded bit of solder on an electronic injection pump's computer board would likely strand the majority of pleasure boaters.

+1 for Twiisted71's comment on an all mechanical engine. Our Cummins 6BTA has been great and easy to maintain. Gonna be sad to see it go when MOJO sells! www.mvmojo.com

 

[mom-mac]

Do NOT buy anything with DD 8V92’s!!! They fail at 1500 hours like clockwork

 

[Fletcher500]

I like the Swedish Elf reference. I may borrow that line one of these days.

 

[ProMaritime]

Forget Volvo

 

[ProMaritime]

Not surprising. Detroit Diesel is owned by the Germans.

 

[twiisted71]

Cats are great especially the 3208's and would work in a vessel your size.

I hesitated to mention the 3208 because of some very strong prejudices uninformed people have developed. The 3208na is one of those incredible often forgotten heroes. Used as intended they are excellent powerplants. The problem arose when sportfish and yacht manufacturers discovered the could be turbo'd and tweaked to put out well over 400hp in their very compact footprint and weight. They did this knowing they would be shortening the engine's expected lifespan to a completely unreasonable number of hours for anyone not using the boat commercially to be able to offset the cost of engine rebuild/replacement. The 6BT Cummins started down this path briefly, but thankfully most stepped up to the 6C series, Inline Cats, and 92 series DDs.

A few of other phenomenal diesel marine engines are International (Harvester) DT466, Isuzu 6BD1, and the lower HP Hino (Toyota) 6 cylinders Bayliner used to use.

 

[OldDan1943]

All generalities are FALSE!!!

Generally speaking.

 

[FlyWright]

In Cummins I trust.

LOL!

Give me Perkins or give me death!

 

[Airstream345]

Some great advice I received here on this forum was to focus on finding the right boat first: Brand, size, layout, features, etc.

Because so many builders in the 80s allowed owners to spec engines often you can find the same boat with multiple power options. For example: we looked at four OA MK1s and saw, John Deeres - in a re-powered MK1, Cummins 555s, Ford Lehmans and CAT 3208s all in the same model.

You can always DQ a boat because of an engine you don't like or want due to reputation, parts and maintenance availability or a failed mechanical survey but it's pretty hard to say yes to a boat because of the engine(s) sitting on the stringers.

 

[Bajabuzz]

One of the brands we are looking at in Navigator. Seems the only engine option is Volvo. Some with very low hours.

Thanks again to all who have replied.

 

[Simi 60]

LOL!

Give me Perkins or give me death!

Same same

 

[menzies]

You can always DQ a boat because of an engine you don't like or want due to reputation, parts and maintenance availability or a failed mechanical survey but it's pretty hard to say yes to a boat because of the engine(s) sitting on the stringers.

Any yet that was the MAIN reason I bought Sonas! (Of course all other things on the other boats being equal-ish).

 

[Tom.B]

One of the brands we are looking at in Navigator. Seems the only engine option is Volvo. Some with very low hours.

Thanks again to all who have replied.

Fine boats! Let me know if you need more info on them.

 

[Bajabuzz]

Tom B. I would like to hear what you have to say about Navigators.

 

[tiltrider1]

One of the brands we are looking at in Navigator. Seems the only engine option is Volvo. Some with very low hours.

Thanks again to all who have replied.

If you are looking at Navigtors, you are looking at 90’s Volvo’s. 90’s era Volvo’s were solid engines. While I might not like the engine as much as a Cat 3208 or or a DD6v92, I would not pass on the right boat if it had Volvo TAMD 63.

There are a lot of negative comments on Volvo but in the class of boat you are pursuing these comments don’t really apply. Parts for Volvo might be more than Cat parts but Cat parts are not cheap. If you want cheap parts then stick with Detroit but now you have signed up for a whole new list of compromises.