engine room headroom

[Steve]

Pardon my language...but I would have a full blown stiffy if I could just sit down next to my engines and wrench away

Did you mean "wench"?

 

[MurrayM]

Just curious...speaking of sub-fifty footers...at what point does having a stand up engine room demand raising the saloon and pilothouse so high that stability is compromised, windage is increased, and stabilizing fins are pretty much required?

 

[Boydski]

at what point does having a stand up engine room demand raising the saloon and pilothouse so high that stability is compromised, windage is increased, and stabilizing fins are pretty much required?

On the Nordhavn 47, the stand up engine room was accomplished by adding a small bulge in the hull where the engine sits. They are referred to as "maintenance strakes" and have the additional benefit of lowering the engine in the hull to the point the main shaft is pretty much horizontal.

 

[angus99]

Just curious...speaking of sub-fifty footers...at what point does having a stand up engine room demand raising the saloon and pilothouse so high that stability is compromised, windage is increased, and stabilizing fins are pretty much required?

I guess you could get there, but I think it would take a naval architect to address questions about compromised stability.

My thought is that anything above the waterline increases windage. With the exception of Northern Marine's Baden, I have not heard of any of these boats with standup (trying to get Healhustler's unwelcome analogy out of my mind here) engine rooms that actually have stability problems. We have active fin stabilizers on our boat, but I don't think any of the unstabilized Defevers are known to be unstable.

 

[jb cruzan]

Thanks to everyone for the responses. This is really encouraging to know they are out there!

 

[bayview]

some early Hats had two engines , each in their own state room. []

 

[bayview]

Is there an engine in that Nordy?

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
As I recall, the 50' Marine Traders also had 2 ER's with a hallway between and removable panels in the hall for side engine access. Kinda small but stand up none the less.

 

[healhustler]

Here's the ER of the late model 36 Selene, now called the 38. Pretty darned good access for a sub 40 boat. Brochure says 5'9".

 

[cardude01]

Here's the ER of the late model 36 Selene, now called the 38. Pretty darned good access for a sub 40 boat. Brochure says 5'9".

Wow. That is nice.

 

[BruceK]

Erectile issues aside,a major issue is access to the hull side of twin engines. I end up cramped, literally, and contorted. You guys with wonderful ERs can make mere mortals with typical twins in a 13ft 6" beam hull green with envy, by posting pics of twins you can walk around.

 

[MurrayM]

On the Nordhavn 47, the stand up engine room was accomplished by adding a small bulge in the hull where the engine sits. They are referred to as "maintenance strakes" and have the additional benefit of lowering the engine in the hull to the point the main shaft is pretty much horizontal.

Thanks for the explanation.

My theory is there's no perfect boat, just one with the least amount of compromises and each of us gets to write their own list, which explains the vast array of designs! Myself, I'd choose to stoop in the engine room rather than have more weight up high.

 

[siestakey]

Most of the Cheoy Lees have 7ft head room My Cheoy Lee 50 tri cabin has 7ft+ and walk round engines. Acess is through the master cabin a pair of doors 5'x5' Through which anything can be carried. Plus the usual main deck e.r. door and lantile. You can easily stand 10 people in there for a cocktail party!

Martin Could you post some pictures of your engine room when you get a chance?

 

[siestakey]

Here's the ER of the late model 36 Selene, now called the 38. Pretty darned good access for a sub 40 boat. Brochure says 5'9".

That is amazing for a sub 40 WOW

 

[caltexflanc]

The 47' Nordhavn has a stand up engine room and a full height door for entry. There is full access to all sides of the engine as well.

Love the artwork. I have yet to be on a Nordy where I could fully stand up and walk around in the ER, including a 62 a 55 and 57. So apparently they've rethought that?

 

[healhustler]

Love the artwork. I have yet to be on a Nordy where I could fully stand up and walk around in the ER, including a 62 a 55 and 57. So apparently they've rethought that?

George: Oliver's Nordy 47 Engine Room is impressive indeed, but I think he changed the artwork, as shown in this more recent shot.

 

[N4712]

George: Oliver's Nordy 47 Engine Room is impressive indeed, but I think he changed the artwork, as shown in this more recent shot.

 

[N4712]

To cover my behind here's a picture proving that there aren't any Boatshoes in my ER.

 

[Ski in NC]

On smaller boats, tall headroom in ER eats up volume that could be used for something else. Also tends to raise pilothouse or whatever is above, making rolls more uncomfortable.

So depends on what you want.

On mine, I built it so there is 1/2" between keel and bottom of engine, and 1/2" between top of engine and bottom of hatch. But I can crawl around entire engine and gear, and get to all four sides of genset. But I am doing it on my knees!!!

If needed to get to top, carpet rolls up and a full size hatch lifts off top of engine.

 

[ksanders]

On smaller boats, tall headroom in ER eats up volume that could be used for something else. Also tends to raise pilothouse or whatever is above, making rolls more uncomfortable.

So depends on what you want.

On mine, I built it so there is 1/2" between keel and bottom of engine, and 1/2" between top of engine and bottom of hatch. But I can crawl around entire engine and gear, and get to all four sides of genset. But I am doing it on my knees!!!

If needed to get to top, carpet rolls up and a full size hatch lifts off top of engine.

My boat being a semi displacement design does not have the hull depth to have a stand up engine room.

Like Ski, once I remove the hatches we have a stand up engine room, the only problem is you can't use the salon at the same time.

I love those stand up engine rooms BTW!!!

 

[healhustler]

Oliver: that is a sucko photo of you ER. If I had a stand up engine room, I'd have a darned good photo like Scott's! Sorry Scott, I mistook you engine room photo for Oliver's.

 

[kraftee]

In reference to Larry's earlier question about the headroom in a Great Harbour N-37 - there is 6' of headroom at the workbench which varies to about 5' 5" at the aft end of the ER, where the sea chest resides. The N47 has exactly one foot more headroom everywhere. Awesome. To illustrate, here is a bit of E.R. porn from N47 Hull #1 (Gale Force - currently for sale):

 

[sunchaser]

DeFevers are indeed hard to beat for systems layout access and ER space. This is no accident. Art was a big guy and designed accordingly.

But as Kevin says, not all boats can be so designed as they have different objectives. Can't even think that lifting hatches on a heavy sea is enjoyable.

 

[Sailor of Fortune]

In reference to Larry's earlier question about the headroom in a Great Harbour N-37 - there is 6' of headroom at the workbench which varies to about 5' 5" at the aft end of the ER, where the sea chest resides. The N47 has exactly one foot more headroom everywhere. Awesome. To illustrate, here is a bit of E.R. porn from N47 Hull #1 (Gale Force - currently for sale):

I was aboard the N37 in Green Cove Springs about 10 or 11 years ago. I loved the engine room and access with one very glaring safety issue.
IMHO they needed guards over the front of those engines. The pully/belt set up is ripe to grab an unsuspecting arm or shirt tale. Probably $30 in materials and an hour labor could save a lot of heartache. The suggestion was made to Peter Swanson aboard "Semper Fi". It was obviously ignored.
Hathaway Winch company was taken down by something similar in a court case in the 90's.

 

[kraftee]

The suggestion was made to Peter Swanson aboard "Semper Fi". It was obviously ignored.

I think you should take a look at a more recent vintage boat. There were two or three N37s built without engine belt guards in the very beginning because Yanmar didn't supply them for the 4JH3s. I know that at least one of those was eventually retrofitted with aluminum, expanded metal and/or fiberglass guards (they cost a hell of a lot more than $30 plus an hour of labor though!)

All boats from '05 on with the 4JH4 engines had integrated Yanmar belt guards - including the one I had pictured...

 

[kraftee]

Keep in mind that most - if not all - the Great Harbour pics I post are of boats in various stages of construction. That's why pic two of post #52 shows a 4JH4T with no engine guard. It had not been installed yet! That's also why you see the workbench in pic three just randomly piled with rigging tools.

 

[jwilsail]

Head room in the engine room was not a priority when I purchased my boat. Now I am seeking a mechanically inclined midget to do a few chores for me. What I have noticed is that the Pilot house trawler designs seem to have the best engine room access and head room.

 

[healhustler]

I would have liked to have been a fly on the wall when Ken Fickett and Lou Codega were drawing the first sketches of Great Harbours, particularly the N-series. I doubt that the huge size of the engine room and boson's locker were after-thoughts, and it would seem that many ER's are. Trying to design something within market and business-driven parameters must have some NA's clenching their teeth, knowing better. At the risk of sounding cynical, I wonder how much is designed in for whim or marketability by whomever, and the rest being left to deductive CAD software placement, maybe without much input by any NA.

 

[C lectric]

Pay more attention to overall access ALL AROUND. Sure a standup engine room is a draw but if it's at the expense of access you are in trouble.

My boat, a single, has good access all around, with a crawl around E.R.. I'm not suggesting all is easy but it is very workable.

I've seen too many boats with better height but trying to get outboard without punching holes in YOUR sides would be a problem. Sometime mtce. access on those boats would be pulling half the salon apart, not just a hatch.

If you can afford it and get it then great, but do not compromise access.

 

[Sailor of Fortune]

Keep in mind that most - if not all - the Great Harbour pics I post are of boats in various stages of construction. That's why pic two of post #52 shows a 4JH4T with no engine guard. It had not been installed yet! That's also why you see the workbench in pic three just randomly piled with rigging tools.

Glad they remedied that issue. The boat I was on was available for charter and according to Peter, no guards were fitted on these boats (2003).