Engine survey question

[Cheeky]

YES!!!! dont make the mistake I did. Followed a similar procedure prior to buying, put gopros on the back to record any smoke etc. couldnt find any problems. turns out the previous owner / seller POS had nipped down to the engine bay while I was checking things and squirted diesel starter into the intakes.
Bought the boat, those engines never ran again.
A mechanical inspection is way cheaper than 2 engine rebuilds .........

 

[jleonard]

I have never seen a survey with diesel engines that included a compression test or any wrenching.

When I bought my old Mainship the mechanic did a compression test on the Perkins T6.354 It was an engine survey.

 

[Steve DAntonio]

In a word, or phrase, no, not even close. In addition to a full engine survey, which should include a crankcase pressure test and exhaust back pressure test, the engine should be run run at about 75% load for 45 minutes and 100% load for 10 minutes while carefully watching instrumentation. You have a lot riding on this, you have one chance for a thorough evaluation before signing the check.

More here https://stevedmarineconsulting.com/the-art-of-the-engine-survey/

And here https://stevedmarineconsulting.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/SeaTrialsProBoat145B.pdf

In Taiwan.

 

[Don L]

I am not surprised a surveyor will recommend a survey. I have brought 2 boats in my life, a 30' and a 41'. Both had surveys and both failed to find common problems. On the 39' I was lucky to have not sunk since during the during winter haul out for New England I went to replace the frozen seacock, that the survey didn't find, and found out that the only thing holding the valve in was caulking. I of course had to do the silly "I recommend ....." things for the insurance company.

So while on paper a survey sounds good, my experience has not been positive of its' value.

Tell me tell a true story about the dockmaster here. He had a 36' trawler with a engine that wouldn't run, which had already been "rebuilt". The wife said she was done with boats so he had to get rid of it. So he found a guy with good reviews etc to rebuilt in in the boat (single engine) and once the engine was running he put it up for sale. Offer got made and the boat had the normal survey, seatrail, plus an engine survey and all passed and money was exchanged. ...................... The boat made it 2 hours before the blowing.

If from what I am reading here an engine survey is not really checking anything is seems a waste of money as I can just as easy download an inspection checklist and go at it myself.

 

[AquaAura]

I think this all depends on someone's level of mechanical experience. I would agree that a survey may not be needed if you understand what you are looking at and looking for.

There are many times however where it's required by insurance and it has to be done by a certified surveyor not a self survey

 

[Comodave]

I have never had an insurance company ask for an engine survey. They always have wanted hull surveys.

 

[Don L]

I have never had an insurance company ask for an engine survey. They always have wanted hull surveys.

Have you ever really felt insurance companies understood boats?

 

[Comodave]

Back when Boat/US wasn’t affiliated with Geico I think they did. After Geico took over their insurance, not so much.

 

[Nick F]

My own approach was a little different, but then the boat had 48 years and 7200hr on the engines.

I wrote off (mentally) all the peripherals - starters, alternators, raw water pumps, heat exchangers, hoses.

I found a recommended mechanic and asked what I could do to assure myself that the core engines were sound. We did cold start, oil analyses and - at my insistence - we borescoped one cylinder on each engine. First two items were OK and with the borescope we were able to see good cross-hatching on the cylinder wall and also able to look upwards at the valves.

The borescoping took about 1.5 hr per engine.

The other important part of mechanical condition assessment is vibration checking during sea trial. In my case, I myself crawled into the back of the ER. I highly recommend that a suitably qualified professional should be employed to do this. (This is not to say that I necessarily qualify!)

I am not saying that everyone should follow this protocol but offer this information as yet another "case history". As stated above what makes sense is very much buyer dependent. Perhaps, for me, the most challenging part of an engine survey is finding the right mechanic. Many excellent fixers are not necessarily good inspectors.

 

[ranger58sb]

If from what I am reading here an engine survey is not really checking anything is seems a waste of money as I can just as easy download an inspection checklist and go at it myself.

Sounds OK, if you're comfortable you'd know what you're looking at... on whatever specific diesel you're looking at.

I could probably do that, sorta kinda OK, on a Cummins 450C... since that's what we had before, for long enough for me to learn them.

I think I wouldn't have as much of a clue about Perkins, Cat, Lehman, Volvo and most others... although some advance study and some pics might help get me up to slow speed.

Given what you're shopping for, probably won't affect you... but when it came to electronic engines like we have now, the survey was largely about whatever readings the tech captured with his computer hook-up. (4 pages of data in a 5-page report from the sea trial; 24 discrepancies in the actual mechanical survey report, for the two engines and the genset.) I think I wouldn't have even been able to correctly identify a gear cooler or charge air cooler (etc.) unless I'd prepped myself with pics in advance.

-Chris

 

[AquaAura]

I have never had an insurance company ask for an engine survey. They always have wanted hull surveys.

Yes good point I forgot we were talking about engine surveys. ��

 

[NCheaven]

Lots of good things in what I read about your purchase plan. I found a good Camano in Jacksonville years ago, all looked and sounded great, including test drive. I signed the contract, with an exclusion for survey. The survey showed that the engine was fine, but the survey showed a "shaft whip" - lines drawn on the shaft lit up with a strobe light - the shaft was not balanced, considerable wobble over 1500 rpm. So, I passed on that one, found a good boat the next year in Rhode Island. (2005 boat, 1350 hours, purchased in 2017).

Another good idea is to look for total gallons (on fuel efficiency gauge) consumed and total hours on the engine, and determine the average gallons per hour. The boat I purchase came in around 2, which on my boat works out to around 2200 rpm, 7.2 knots. No telling if that includes hours at WOT and many more hours at slower rpm, but the average shows fairly light % of effort, cruising just a little over hull speed, pretty moderate speed. We did find after my first hour of use that there was some carbon build up in the exhaust - handfuls per the mechanic, and removing that and installing new injector tips improved performance. (Other improvements included switching to synthetic 15-40 engine oil, and using only Valvtect fuel - those dropped operating pressure 5 lb, reduced smoke, smoothed/quieted engine, and fuel polishing - should have done FP before the delivery trip.)

I hope this helps new buyers of old boats who find this link. Fuel polishing before delivery cruise and replacing all fuel filters are the biggest things to follow up on when buying a used boat after all other survey tasks.

 

[Lepke]

Depends on the make and model of engine. Some are more reliable and last longer. I know engines, so in my buys never have an engine survey done. And never been surprised. If it's an engine type I can get my borescope in, that, and oil pressure usually tells the longevity issue.
An engine survey is only a snapshot of a moment in time. In my business, and for friends, I've rebuilt several engines that passed an engine survey.